How much do you value difficulty?

karamazovnew · 12-24-09, 12:32 AM

With the recent scare about the SH5 interface, I fear that speculation might do more damage than good in the following months. From what we have seen so far, SH5 seems to already offer a great deal for gamers. Realism freaks will likely continue to cry fault and will rely on mods in the years to come, as they have done with both SH3 and SH4. Realism means difficulty. Sometimes realism can make a game so difficult that players respect it, but find it prohibitive. Falcon 4 and Black Shark are good examples of sims that I value and cherish, but I've never been good at them. Also realism can provide a bit of Role-Play. Having many options and many things to do can be immersive. But doing them all is difficult.

So I'd like to open a poll regarding your difficulty needs in relation to how you are currently playing SH3 or SH4. This isn't about what you want to see in SH5, or even how you would like to play it in the future. We all have our reasons for playing the game, vanilla or modded (love the navy, love WW2, bored of XBOX games, etc). But this isn't about that. I want for you to think clearly and pick your current style of play.

1. Minimum Difficulty (for me, SH is a game):
I view SH as an exotic shooter. I don't like to mess around with plots or tactics. I want to sink everything in sight, the bigger the better. If I get sunk, I load up the last save and keep on going. But I usually never get sunk

2. Moderate Difficulty (for me SH is a challenging sim):
Plotting, manual targeting, tactics are still a bit of mystery to me, but I keep on trying. I try to follow orders, plan my attacks with plotting. I like to know what's going on in the game. I like realism but I don't want it to get to the point of frustrating me. I know that the game can offer more, but this is all I can give it.

3. Normal Difficulty (for me SH is reason enough to join the Navy, if it weren't so boring!!!):
I love a challenge. I want as many realistic options as possible, which I can toggle off while I learn the art of this sim.

4. Real deal (for me SH fills that gap I never knew I had):
This is my sub. There are many other like it, but this one is mine. If it goes down, I go with it. I care about my crew and I respect my enemy. I learn from them and from my mistakes, to be able to give this job 100%, with or without manual targeting. If I bring down a few ships and then get my crew home, it means I've done my duty.

I'd like to point out that for 3 years after SH3 came out, I was a perfect example of Option 1 and I still respect it. Please don't try to boast as it would defeat the purpose of such a poll. Which is to remind Ubi who we are and what we expect from them in the future.

GoldenRivet · 12-24-09, 12:47 AM

Had to vote Real Deal

it describes the way I view it to a greater extent than the rest.

I have a Persona or Character that I play SH3 as... if he dies, thats it, no coming back.

When SH5 comes out... for the first couple of weeks i will play moderate realism as i slip into the game

however, once versed in the ways of SH5 - i'll go full on real placing my character into the Sh5 world and Playing out his campaign in Ultra low time compression if i use any at all.

of course i will have another low realism setting character for when i only have a short time and want to get a quick fix with a quick mission.

Sailor Steve · 12-24-09, 12:49 AM

I voted 3) Normal Difficulty. Actually 4 kind of describes my attitude, but I've never been able to master manual targeting or wean myself from the external views, especially when I'm in port.

I almost never wander from my assigned grid (in SH3 - SH4 lets you request a new zone and sometimes lets you run free), even if it means getting zero tonnage for the patrol.

While I use the Weapons Officer / Auto Targeting I always take several periscope observations, which doesn't change my chances of hitting but does increase the chance of my being spotted.

I never man the deck or flak guns myself. I keep Auto Reload turned off, and never reload the torpedoes while I'm escaping (a steep dive angle could make one of those one-ton suckers break lose and go right through the hull), or while surfaced if the wind speed is more than 6. I never reload externals except at a dead stop in a dead calm sea.

I always return all the way to port and dock the boat myself.

I use SH3 Commander, and set if for 'Realistic Career Length'. I don't expect to ever go all the way through the war - I'll get promoted to a desk job long before that happens (assuming I survive that long).

And of course Dead Is Dead.

karamazovnew · 12-24-09, 01:02 AM

Steve you should've gone for 4. You're a perfect personification of that option. By difficulty I didn't mean at which percentage you play the game. As I've stated, it's about immersion, and realism expectation which both lead to a particular style of play (a sort of INNER difficulty). Let me give another example:

GUITAR HERO 3... don't laugh please...

Option 1: Love the game at parties or for a quick fix.
Option 2: Cool game, I've beaten it on Hard but some songs on Expert are torture... _uck this.
Option 3: I'm one of the only 3 guys that beat Through Fire and Flames 100% on Expert in the world. Ok, not yet... but next time!!!
Option 4: When I get drunk, I play this game and I'm ON THE STAGE!

I'm both Option 2 and Option 4. But the last one is evidently more relevant. It's something that you have, or don't have... and you have it (for SH, I mean)

. As you can see, I didn't even talk about type of targeting for that option. Some play it like I do with max time compression, some with minimum (respect Golden

). Some load, some don't. But all of them never shy away from sheer difficulty, but accept as a part of "real life", not even something to beat or master (as option 3 does).

EDIT: there, changed option 3 to make it more relevant

. Hope it's a bit more clear now. As I said, it's hard to distinguish difficulty options from realism and immersion. Especially for one with a non-english native language.

Sailor Steve · 12-24-09, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

Steve you should've gone for 4.

Given what you just said, maybe you're right. I came up 'Hardcore' in the 'What Kind Of Subsim Skipper Are You?' quiz.

Quote:

GUITAR HERO 3... don't laugh please...

Option 4: When I get drunk, I play this game and I'm ON THE STAGE!

I've never played that game, mainly because I play for real and I'm on the stage fairly regularly. Can't beat the high you get from that.

karamazovnew · 12-24-09, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I've never played that game, mainly because I play for real and I'm on the stage fairly regularly. Can't beat the high you get from that.

Cool, link vids on PM please...
I play a real guitar too, quite good in fact, but not at the point where I can actually ENJOY it. Of course the game is simply silly, but after a few beers it's hypnotic. It's like Rally games (Richard Burns for example), we all drive cars but not all of us can drive THOSE cars. Of course the game isn't real and doesn't even hold a candle to the real thing, but it's still fun.

Reece · 12-24-09, 01:48 AM

I voted Normal Difficulty, it is still a game and playing it for example in 1x TC is just not my cup of tea, I play manual TDC but generally prefer quick 90 method just a couple of examples!!

kptn_kaiserhof · 12-24-09, 03:43 AM

my exact thoughts GOLDEN RIVET

THE_MASK · 12-24-09, 03:52 AM

I voted 3 . Depending how SH5 turns out it might be 4 .

Arclight · 12-24-09, 05:29 AM

Somewhere between 3 and 4; I'll enable any option that makes it more realistic, and conduct my patrol like a real captain would (to the best of my knowledge), but going at real-time the whole patrol is a bit too much.

I'm patient, but I'm just a mortal as well. My time is not infinite.

(voted 4, think it comes closest)

jimbob · 12-24-09, 05:40 AM

Im about 2 I think. I like the visuals a lot.
Manual plotting makes things interesting.

Also, been playing them guitars about 30 years now, actually I have several guitars, some amps etc. It's a hoot !

I don't have Guitar Hero. But i'd like to see this:

karamazovnew · 12-24-09, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob

I don't have Guitar Hero. But i'd like to see this:

Pft... a plastic accordion can't hold a candle to these mean beauties:

Look at the woodwork man!

JU_88 · 12-24-09, 06:32 AM

Voted moderate, bascially I dont really care about stuff that can be tweaked later.
Im a more worried about other core features and mechanics such as AI routines etc, (things that cannot be modded easily later on)

Difficuty is effected by a zillion different factors anyway, so long as I can remove any heath-meters-above-enemy-units I will be happy.

karamazovnew · 12-24-09, 06:38 AM

Uhmm..

Quote:

This isn't about what you want to see in SH5, or even how you would like to play it in the future. I want for you to think clearly and pick your current style of play.

Not that I condone the choice, if it still applies.

Kapt Z · 12-24-09, 10:42 AM

"Real Deal".

Played that way ever since the original SH.

Use 'manual' tdc, but with the aid of weapons officer so it comes out to 94%. Do miss the external view from time to time, but have learned to live without it.

Realism wins out against high tonnage every time.

View Poll Results: How do you currently play SH3&4?
Minimum Difficulty	9	5.33%
Moderate Difficulty	8	4.73%
Normal Difficulty	54	31.95%
Real Deal	98	57.99%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

12-24-09, 12:32 AM	#1
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	How much do you value difficulty? With the recent scare about the SH5 interface, I fear that speculation might do more damage than good in the following months. From what we have seen so far, SH5 seems to already offer a great deal for gamers. Realism freaks will likely continue to cry fault and will rely on mods in the years to come, as they have done with both SH3 and SH4. Realism means difficulty. Sometimes realism can make a game so difficult that players respect it, but find it prohibitive. Falcon 4 and Black Shark are good examples of sims that I value and cherish, but I've never been good at them. Also realism can provide a bit of Role-Play. Having many options and many things to do can be immersive. But doing them all is difficult. So I'd like to open a poll regarding your difficulty needs in relation to how you are currently playing SH3 or SH4. This isn't about what you want to see in SH5, or even how you would like to play it in the future. We all have our reasons for playing the game, vanilla or modded (love the navy, love WW2, bored of XBOX games, etc). But this isn't about that. I want for you to think clearly and pick your current style of play. 1. Minimum Difficulty (for me, SH is a game): I view SH as an exotic shooter. I don't like to mess around with plots or tactics. I want to sink everything in sight, the bigger the better. If I get sunk, I load up the last save and keep on going. But I usually never get sunk 2. Moderate Difficulty (for me SH is a challenging sim): Plotting, manual targeting, tactics are still a bit of mystery to me, but I keep on trying. I try to follow orders, plan my attacks with plotting. I like to know what's going on in the game. I like realism but I don't want it to get to the point of frustrating me. I know that the game can offer more, but this is all I can give it. 3. Normal Difficulty (for me SH is reason enough to join the Navy, if it weren't so boring!!!): I love a challenge. I want as many realistic options as possible, which I can toggle off while I learn the art of this sim. 4. Real deal (for me SH fills that gap I never knew I had): This is my sub. There are many other like it, but this one is mine. If it goes down, I go with it. I care about my crew and I respect my enemy. I learn from them and from my mistakes, to be able to give this job 100%, with or without manual targeting. If I bring down a few ships and then get my crew home, it means I've done my duty. I'd like to point out that for 3 years after SH3 came out, I was a perfect example of Option 1 and I still respect it. Please don't try to boast as it would defeat the purpose of such a poll. Which is to remind Ubi who we are and what we expect from them in the future. Last edited by karamazovnew; 12-24-09 at 01:18 AM.

12-24-09, 12:47 AM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Had to vote Real Deal it describes the way I view it to a greater extent than the rest. I have a Persona or Character that I play SH3 as... if he dies, thats it, no coming back. When SH5 comes out... for the first couple of weeks i will play moderate realism as i slip into the game however, once versed in the ways of SH5 - i'll go full on real placing my character into the Sh5 world and Playing out his campaign in Ultra low time compression if i use any at all. of course i will have another low realism setting character for when i only have a short time and want to get a quick fix with a quick mission. __________________

12-24-09, 12:49 AM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I voted 3) Normal Difficulty. Actually 4 kind of describes my attitude, but I've never been able to master manual targeting or wean myself from the external views, especially when I'm in port. I almost never wander from my assigned grid (in SH3 - SH4 lets you request a new zone and sometimes lets you run free), even if it means getting zero tonnage for the patrol. While I use the Weapons Officer / Auto Targeting I always take several periscope observations, which doesn't change my chances of hitting but does increase the chance of my being spotted. I never man the deck or flak guns myself. I keep Auto Reload turned off, and never reload the torpedoes while I'm escaping (a steep dive angle could make one of those one-ton suckers break lose and go right through the hull), or while surfaced if the wind speed is more than 6. I never reload externals except at a dead stop in a dead calm sea. I always return all the way to port and dock the boat myself. I use SH3 Commander, and set if for 'Realistic Career Length'. I don't expect to ever go all the way through the war - I'll get promoted to a desk job long before that happens (assuming I survive that long). And of course Dead Is Dead. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-24-09, 01:02 AM	#4
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	Steve you should've gone for 4. You're a perfect personification of that option. By difficulty I didn't mean at which percentage you play the game. As I've stated, it's about immersion, and realism expectation which both lead to a particular style of play (a sort of INNER difficulty). Let me give another example: GUITAR HERO 3... don't laugh please... Option 1: Love the game at parties or for a quick fix. Option 2: Cool game, I've beaten it on Hard but some songs on Expert are torture... _uck this. Option 3: I'm one of the only 3 guys that beat Through Fire and Flames 100% on Expert in the world. Ok, not yet... but next time!!! Option 4: When I get drunk, I play this game and I'm ON THE STAGE! I'm both Option 2 and Option 4. But the last one is evidently more relevant. It's something that you have, or don't have... and you have it (for SH, I mean) . As you can see, I didn't even talk about type of targeting for that option. Some play it like I do with max time compression, some with minimum (respect Golden ). Some load, some don't. But all of them never shy away from sheer difficulty, but accept as a part of "real life", not even something to beat or master (as option 3 does). EDIT: there, changed option 3 to make it more relevant . Hope it's a bit more clear now. As I said, it's hard to distinguish difficulty options from realism and immersion. Especially for one with a non-english native language. Last edited by karamazovnew; 12-24-09 at 01:20 AM.

12-24-09, 01:48 AM	#7
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,688 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	I voted Normal Difficulty, it is still a game and playing it for example in 1x TC is just not my cup of tea, I play manual TDC but generally prefer quick 90 method just a couple of examples!! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

12-24-09, 03:43 AM	#8
kptn_kaiserhof XO Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 418 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	my exact thoughts GOLDEN RIVET

12-24-09, 03:52 AM	#9
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	I voted 3 . Depending how SH5 turns out it might be 4 .

12-24-09, 05:29 AM	#10
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	Somewhere between 3 and 4; I'll enable any option that makes it more realistic, and conduct my patrol like a real captain would (to the best of my knowledge), but going at real-time the whole patrol is a bit too much. I'm patient, but I'm just a mortal as well. My time is not infinite. (voted 4, think it comes closest) __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

12-24-09, 05:40 AM	#11
jimbob Ensign Join Date: May 2005 Location: Suomi Finland Posts: 225 Downloads: 365 Uploads: 6	Im about 2 I think. I like the visuals a lot. Manual plotting makes things interesting. Also, been playing them guitars about 30 years now, actually I have several guitars, some amps etc. It's a hoot ! I don't have Guitar Hero. But i'd like to see this:

12-24-09, 06:32 AM	#13
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Voted moderate, bascially I dont really care about stuff that can be tweaked later. Im a more worried about other core features and mechanics such as AI routines etc, (things that cannot be modded easily later on) Difficuty is effected by a zillion different factors anyway, so long as I can remove any heath-meters-above-enemy-units I will be happy.

12-24-09, 10:42 AM	#15
Kapt Z Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ...somewhere in the swamps of Jersey. Posts: 909 Downloads: 157 Uploads: 0	"Real Deal". Played that way ever since the original SH. Use 'manual' tdc, but with the aid of weapons officer so it comes out to 94%. Do miss the external view from time to time, but have learned to live without it. Realism wins out against high tonnage every time.