Difference between SH3 and SH4?

[Spin Doctor]

Salute all

Having been totally into SH3 when it first apperared, I eventually got a little weary of the sameness of the missions and a sort of lack of involvement so, eventually drifted away from the pack. Actually I haven't played in about a year or so I guess.

If I remember correctly, one of the things that bothered me was there was never a need to plan night attacks with no moon since the ships could always see you anyway. Their visual range was reduced somewhat at night, but not enough to make any difference in my opinion. While it was a very good sim, there were some other issues that kept it from being a really great one.

That said, I did love this sim and played it for a long time.

So with SH4 on the nerar horizon, what's going to be so different here than in Sh3? Other than eyecandy, I mean. I don't care about that. Gameplay is all that I'm concerned about. At the very least, I'd like the systems to work as historically documented. There was some definite laziness on this aspect in SH3.

If this is SH3 in a new dress, then I'll probably pass. No offense, but I don't need SH3.5. When you consider the major sub battles were in the Atlantic, I would imagine the developers would need to incorporate a lot of innovation to make the Pacific interesting, given the fairly light merchant traffic compared to the Atlantic. Having new subs in a new theater is nice and all, but at the end of the day, they all use the same dials, gages, optics and have the same mission. Campaign involvement is the only savior in the sim world, I think. Think EAW, panzer Elite, Mig Alley, Red Baron 3D, ya know? The campaign is what made these classics. I would like to see a new classic come out of the sim world and this has the potential as much as anything out there.

Thanks

[TDK1044]

If you're expecting SH4 to be radically different from SH3 then you should pass. It is after all based on the SH3 game engine.

The graphical look of the game is much improved, and the Devs certainly learned a lot from SH3, but in the end it is what it is....a much improved version of SH3 set in a US sub in the Pacific.

[KiwiVenge]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

....a much improved version of SH3 set in a US sub in the Pacific.

I think what he is asking is how is it improved? Is it only graphics that have changed?
Personally I do not know the answer to his question or would offer one

[TDK1044]

I think he's a prime candidate for 'wait a few weeks after the release of the game and decide to purchase or not based on Forum feedback'.

[Spin Doctor]

"Much Improved, how" is indeed my question.

I've searched the forum for awhile and either I've missed them all, or there are no threads talking about specific improvements over SH3. I've read the generic marketing verbage, but I'd rather know what your guys think since you are the ones with the most experience with the sim.

I do appreciate TDK1044's response, but to say SH4 is "much improved" doesn't tell me anything.

Thanks

Edit: to say, you are right TDK. I did buy SH3 within hours of its release, but SH4 have to be a wait and see.

[trenken]

It seems the interface was a big focus this time around. They mention it in every interview. Sounds like they simplified quite a bit to try and draw players that may have been too scared to jump into a game with this kind of complexity. It's not known yet that if these changes will actually upset the hardcore sim fan though. But in every interview ive read, simplifying and streamlining the interface and the gameplay itself was a top priority.

I'm sure at this point that doing whatever you can to sell more copies is very important, otherwise we may never see SH5 if the game doesn't generate enough money for the company. I know SH3 only sold in the 6 figure range, don't know if that was in the lower or higher half though. Either way, that's not too bad for a sim, but when you consider how much money goes into making a game like this for 2 years, you would have to think that if they arent hitting the millions, then it's probably not generating a huge profit.

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally Posted by KiwiVenge

I think what he is asking is how is it improved? Is it only graphics that have changed?
Personally I do not know the answer to his question or would offer one

What we know - besides the graphics overhall - is;
- Double the radio traffic
- "missions" assigned while at sea
- the opportunity to take part in various historical battles

But still, much of the time you are going to travel to a patrol area to sink stuff. If that is boring to you then you should pass.

Barkhorn.

[Boris]

Well, the missions won't be the same old, same old boringness of grid clearing as in SH3.

You'll have commando drop offs, photo reckon, pilot rescue, specific targets etc. Mission objectives will also change during missions.

As for the ability to night attack, don't know how the AI will react. But it is moddable. GWX vastly improved this instance for SH3, allowing you to get closer than 1km to enemy ships in some cases... being able to slip past the escorts and into a convoy on the surface.

[Spin Doctor]

Thanks for the tip Boris. I've been thinking of getting back into SH3 so I will check out your GWX mod.

Does it overwrite the other mods I have installed? I can't remember which I have, but I believe the major one is the depth charge mod. Other than that, it's mostly stock.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by Spin Doctor

Thanks for the tip Boris. I've been thinking of getting back into SH3 so I will check out your GWX mod.

Does it overwrite the other mods I have installed? I can't remember which I have, but I believe the major one is the depth charge mod. Other than that, it's mostly stock.

GWX isn't mine, though I had a small hand in it's creation as a member of the mod team.

If you're going to install GWX, then you will need a clean installation of SH3 patched to 1.4b. The installer won't let GWX install onto anything else. Make sure you also get the recently released 1.02 patch for GWX, and install that immediately after the GWX install.
JoneSoft generic Mod Enabler (JSGME) is included in the install, as are a number of optional mods. You can put any extra mods in that you want and enable them with JSGME, but it's in your intersests to make sure they are GWX compatible (in general, everything released since GWX).
What does the depth charge mod do and how old is it? You'll find that most things have been completely overhauled in GWX anyway, so you might not need it.

[Sailor Steve]

Differences I've seen so far:

Much improved crew management with assigned watch bills and automatic rotation.

Upgraded weather with dynamic cloud shifts.

Completely changed damage-control system.

Special missions.

[Spin Doctor]

Originally Posted by Boris

GWX isn't mine, though I had a small hand in it's creation as a member of the mod team.

If you're going to install GWX, then you will need a clean installation of SH3 patched to 1.4b. The installer won't let GWX install onto anything else. Make sure you also get the recently released 1.02 patch for GWX, and install that immediately after the GWX install.
JoneSoft generic Mod Enabler (JSGME) is included in the install, as are a number of optional mods. You can put any extra mods in that you want and enable them with JSGME, but it's in your intersests to make sure they are GWX compatible (in general, everything released since GWX).
What does the depth charge mod do and how old is it? You'll find that most things have been completely overhauled in GWX anyway, so you might not need it.

Loosely remembered, the depth charge mod made changes based on research that said charges may have been too effective for a given depth. I also had some graphics mods for better using the plot screen. I can't remember how to do any of that stuff, so I'll be a noob capt for awhile. I was pretty good at getting hits at one point. I remember my girlfriend saying how if she heard the bubbling sounds coming from the computer room, she wasn't going to see me that night, lol.

I've been reading the manual (wow is it extensive! Great work!) so it may be that the mods I was using have been incorporated. I'm getting the files now, so I'll probably play though a couple of missions to get my feet wet so to speak, then uninstall the old SH3 and reinstall it with the GWX. I know this had to be a lot of work, so thanks to all involved.

[DJSatane]

I sincerely hope multiplayer bug from SH3 where server would receive proper damage from ai but clients in multiplayer receive buggy damage often instant death. I used to run sh3 buglist long time ago and I remember many issues with server and clients in SH3, I am looking forward to fixed multiplayer.

[flintlock]

/deleted

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Spin Doctor

Edit: to say, you are right TDK. I did buy SH3 within hours of its release, but SH4 have to be a wait and see.

I always wait for the first few patches to be released, although, I do admit that it is difficult.