SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-15-20, 07:18 AM   #1
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default Constitutional reform in Russia announced.

On the regular adress to Federal Assembly Putin announced a comprehensive constitutional reform with decrease in presidential power, increase in parliamentary power, more checks and balanced.

The reform would be enacted only if it passes a country wide referendum which was also announced to be in the works.

Looks like Putin is really leaving the big politics and preparing the system for the transition and the post-Putin period.


Text in english:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/62582
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 08:05 AM   #2
Catfish
Dipped Squirrel Operative
 
Catfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky
Posts: 16,897
Downloads: 38
Uploads: 0


Default

Hmm.. a speech that was well done, reasonable by content and information.
What a difference to what is said in some other parts of this little place called earth
But can or does Russia and mankind believe him? Does he mean what he says?

At first I did not like Putin's older speech of a multipolar world, but i have to admit - with a look at states like China and Russia - that he was right. With the US withdrawing and leaving a trade-, negotiation- and power vacuum it was only a question of time someone tried to fill that. The nation of Russia is back, and China has emerged from a long time isolation.
It is imho a backlash to civilisation and a fallback all over to a decentralised and disunited world, but just maybe a worldwide human union to explore space is unfortunately not at the doorstep.
Such a union cannot be led by one nation (east or west or what/wherever), the UN is the closest that would resemble that, but national and tribal ego prevent that.

Regarding this speech (which i see positive) i wonder why he emphasizes the demographic aspect so much. Feeding and education(!) for human children is mandatory alright, but supporting the birth rate by all means.. should not there be less people on earth?

We see that the more "modern" or developed a society becomes, the less individuals will live in it, from a certain standard of nutrition and overall living on, humans can now suddenly afford to have less children to support the elders, women will have the right to decide whether they want children or not, and they will insist on their right.
Also, does Putin want to get on par with the (out of bounds) chinese population?
Does not Russia have enough workers, wouldn't it be better to automate certain work and push education for inventing better automated systems and handling them.
Yes, in the second part of the speech he mentioned education, to improve schooles and universities, and how to finance them. Good. But more children will also mean more money needed, to support the institutions accompanying them while growing up.

You wrote
Quote:
Putin announced a comprehensive constitutional reform with decrease in presidential power, increase in parliamentary power, more checks and balanced.
I do not quite see where you read this in his speech.?

I wish you and Russia that it works out well, for more prosperity and satisfaction for the russian people.
__________________


>^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

Last edited by Catfish; 01-15-20 at 08:26 AM.
Catfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 08:36 AM   #3
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

https://tass.ru/politika/7528017
Meanwhile Medvedev resighned.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 08:39 AM   #4
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

As to the demographics - there is currently a shortage of labour, which is why unemployement is so low.


Due to the size of our territory and desire for greater autonomy we need more people.
And right now this is less about increase in population but in maintaining current population - current birth rates are significantly below replenishment rates meaning that the population (particularly portion of the young people capable of working) is going down. Getting to the level of Chinese (or Indians - who outpaced China) is not the current objective and is not in general plausible.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 08:54 AM   #5
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Also there was a lot about climate, support for small businesses, free internet for important Russian web resources and so on.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 09:24 AM   #6
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 40,487
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Regarding this speech (which i see positive) i wonder why he emphasizes the demographic aspect so much. Feeding and education(!) for human children is mandatory alright, but supporting the birth rate by all means.. should not there be less people on earth?
Chinese people are entering the parts of Russia along their shared border, and they de facto change the ethnic structure of population in these huge empty areas, mainly by traders moving back and frth and forming settlements and trading outposts, markets, etc. . This can become a threat and a political, and military risk, due to different cultural and national loyalties. Also, that we are too many people on the pkanet does nto mean populations levels musta nd shoukd be "cut" similiar everywhere. The problem is that in wanted social grouos there are too few babies and in not so communal supprtive social grouos there are too many babies. We have a similair problem in Germany, and pracitclala cross all the West. still, the lion'S share of the global population exolosion does nto take place in North aemrica or Russia or Europe, but in africa and South East asia.



In total, we are too many yes, I say this myself since long time. But you cnanot tackle the probem by just cutting popualtions without discmrinating between their social contexts and backgrounds, their ethnci and cukturla backgrounds, theire economic net effect on the whole. You must discriminate (seeing and acceting differences), whether you like it or not. 10 million Germans less is a big deal because it would significantly and severely damage the functionality of the German economy, social system, and would be felt across the planet. 20 million Africans or Chinese less would mean - well, anything...? I do not intend to be racist, but these are simple facts of life. States with point.systems for migraiton that they hsrhyl enforce, lie Australian, canada and others, have understood this: they need certain qulified migrants, and cannot need at all other migrants just adding to the probelms already existing in these states. Migraiton is not the smae like migration.



You must discriminate, there is no way around it. Else the damage the whole more and more until it breaks. There are differences, and these have to be considered and taken into account. Its not just al the same, and the relevance of people is not the same for each and everybody.



Its also about the survivablity of social systems if the relation between net- payers and net-receivers shift for the worse,l ike in Germany. This is not just independent for total poulation levels. its about numerical ratios between different groups. The "mix" must be right".



Have you never played Sim City...?! Some thing do not go with to small population levels, other things do not go if the balancing between different factors, groups, if ratios is not well.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 09:28 AM   #7
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

"Chinese hordes" in Russian Far East is largerly a myth.
But the de-population problem is real and is a problem for political (sovereighnity over land) and practical (key industries) reasons.

There is some limited work related migration, but on temporary (tour) basis, the northern parts of China are also being de-populated due to the much the same reasons (old infrastructure, employement problems, climate).


Within the speach (it was towards the end) the really spicy bits were about the reform itself - for example Putin proposed banning people who ever had dual citizenship or foreighn residency from running, to ban people who resided (without residence permit) permanently abroad for 25 years from running. This may affect opposition members as many of they studied or recieved training abroad and/or have residence permits, dual citizenship.


p.s. seems that the translation is not yet complete, it may take a while I guess.
http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/62582
full version but in Russian
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 09:33 AM   #8
Rockstar
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Zendia Bar & Grill
Posts: 11,830
Downloads: 10
Uploads: 0


Default

So let me get this straight the entire cabinet is resigning in accordance with Article 117 of the Russian constitution. Which in essence gives Putin absolute power?
“In this context, it is obvious that, as the government, we must provide the president with a capability to make all decisions,” - Medvedev


Wouldnt that be like the U.S. House and Senate resigning so the President can make all the decisions?
__________________
Guardian of the honey and nuts


Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time.
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 09:37 AM   #9
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockstar View Post
So let me get this straight the entire cabinet is resigning in accordance with Article 117 of the Russian constitution. Which in essence gives Putin absolute power?
“In this context, it is obvious that, as the government, we must provide the president with a capability to make all decisions,” - Medvedev
https://www.consultant.ru/document/c...107a505f5ee32/
Quote:
1. Правительство Российской Федерации может подать в отставку, которая принимается или отклоняется Президентом Российской Федерации.
No, it is just that Head of Government (Prime Minister) can submit resignation to President (Head of State) under article 117 part 1.

In this case the reason behind resignation is probably lack of percieved ability of Medvedev and his cabinet to enact the complex reform being discussed. Because Medvedev is a part of the inner circle he is being rotated to another, largerly advisory, role.

In Russian system Government is the body to enact President's decisions (they impliment them), they are not checks on his power (that is the mission of legislative and judicial branches) and do not set broad policy. So this is more like the whole bunch of secretaries resigning because they do not feel confident to be able to enact the big reform.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 11:26 AM   #10
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 181,122
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Here in the UK it is being perceived by some news sources as a means for Putin to gain far more power over a longer period in time.
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 11:32 AM   #11
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbuna View Post
Here in the UK it is being perceived by some news sources as a means for Putin to gain far more power over a longer period in time.
1) He can't run for Presidential office
2) The reform transfers significant power to the elected Parliament, for example the role to appoint the Government including Prime Minister (another reason why Medvedev&co resigned - there would be a new Government appointed in a new way probably)
3) There is no other branch of the State, especially post reform, that would provide compatible power to super-Presidency created by Yeltsin.


To me it seems like he is doing "I am tired, I am leaving" bit by Yeltsin mixed with the ongoing Kazahstan style reform.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 12:03 PM   #12
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

https://lenta.ru/news/2020/01/15/kad...ndex.ru%2Fnews

Kadurov temporary transfered his authority.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 12:28 PM   #13
Mr Quatro
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,772
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbuna View Post
Here in the UK it is being perceived by some news sources as a means for Putin to gain far more power over a longer period in time.
President's for life don't retire ... What would Putin do with $70 billion dollars anyway

Net Worth:$70 Billion
Age: 67
Born: October 7, 1952
Country of Origin: Russia
Source of Wealth: Politician/President of Russia
Last Updated: 2020
__________________
pla•teau noun
a relatively stable level, period,
or condition a level of attainment
or achievement

Lord help me get to the next plateau ..


Mr Quatro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 12:53 PM   #14
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

The wealth figure is based on, well, speculation and makes assumptions regarding who the eventual beneficiary is for a lot of assets.

You may as well use 200bn or any other such figure.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-20, 01:03 PM   #15
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/62582

Full text has been translated now. The reform is discussed towards the end.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.