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Old 05-30-2020, 06:22 AM   #31
Platapus
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Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
I suspect plenty of people enjoy rioting. Now the taxpayers have to pay for new police cars.



Just like Europe has people who like to travel to football games just to fight, I am sure we have people here in the US who like to travel to protests to fight/loot


I just don't understand that mindset.
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:49 AM   #32
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Yeah, me either, really taints the legitimacy of these protests.

I wish the protesters could organize effectively and
a. sue the city and politicians,
b. legally force through a recall or something to yank a few politicians out of office,
c. create a unstoppable voting block to elect better representatives, people who will bend these police departments to their will,
d. purge the criminal cops, leaving only good cops, with an emphasis on whistleblowing on cops who are corrupt and violent
e. change the cop culture,
f. get rid of the military vehicles and weapons; make them drive Priuses
The police are out of control
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Old 05-30-2020, 12:27 PM   #33
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I do understand why people protest against those bad cops and the police force who seems unable to take of this.

BUT I do NOT have any understanding to those protester who attack stores and set fire to buildings.

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Old 05-30-2020, 02:35 PM   #34
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I think the riots have gone way beyond the original problem.
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Old 05-30-2020, 02:47 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jimbuna View Post
I think the riots have gone way beyond the original problem.
You're right, it's not a demonstration anymore, it's a riot.

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Old 05-30-2020, 03:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Jimbuna View Post
I think the riots have gone way beyond the original problem.
The riots are a manifestation of the original protests being hijacked by thugs and criminals in pursuit of their own agendas. The burning and looting of stores have nothing to do with with the murder of George Floyd. The criminals are using the Floyd killing to justify their looting and other criminal activities and don't care about the real issues. What's worse are a number of these businesses are minority, black owned businesses and are trying to recover from the covid-19 shutdowns.

To Illustrate the racist culture of the Minneapolis Police Department,
Lt. Bob Kroll, president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis has allegedly been making racist statements and wore a " White Power " Patch. If Kroll had any brains at all, he would keep his mouth shut and do everything in his power not to inflame an already bad situation. All Kroll has done is show his true colors which may be useful in a complete overhaul of the police department and unions there.


This clearly demonstrates the culture in the police department and union and raises questions regarding the handling of numerous complaints against Derek Chauvin and the dismissal of those complaints, if they were ever investigated.

https://ww w.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapolis-police-union-president-allegedly-wore-a-white-power-patch-and-made-racist-remarks/

In a related development, the wife of Derek Chauvin, the police officer charged in the death of George Floyd, has filed for divorce.

Kelli Chauvin has been distraught since the murder of George Floyd.


Quote: “This evening, I spoke with Kellie Chauvin and her family. She is devastated by Mr. Floyd’s death and her utmost sympathy lies with his family, with his loved ones and with everyone who is grieving this tragedy. She has filed for dissolution of her marriage to Derek Chauvin,” reads the statement released by Sekula Law Offices.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/...s-for-divorce/

And, the hits just keep on coming for Chauvin. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Last edited by Commander Wallace; 05-30-2020 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 05-30-2020, 04:03 PM   #37
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Got to get control over looters and riots alright, but real leadership would try to de-escalate things instead of pouring oil into the fire. Trump (ab)uses twitter to get past any reason and directly stir up things without thinking.
Some years ago a friend of mine from the US (nothing to do with this forum) said there is no racism in the US ("..a thing of the past"). Does not look like it for all. Wearing a "White Power" patch as a police officer

@Neal is that video you posted related to Minneapolis? I have no idea what is going on there (video).
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Old 05-30-2020, 05:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Got to get control over looters and riots alright, but real leadership would try to de-escalate things instead of pouring oil into the fire. Trump (ab)uses twitter to get past any reason and directly stir up things without thinking.
Some years ago a friend of mine from the US (nothing to do with this forum) said there is no racism in the US ("..a thing of the past"). Does not look like it for all. Wearing a "White Power" patch as a police officer

@Neal is that video you posted related to Minneapolis? I have no idea what is going on there (video).
It's a big country. It's like saying there's no racism in Europe.
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Old 05-30-2020, 06:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Got to get control over looters and riots alright, but real leadership would try to de-escalate things instead of pouring oil into the fire. Trump (ab)uses twitter to get past any reason and directly stir up things without thinking.
Some years ago a friend of mine from the US (nothing to do with this forum) said there is no racism in the US ("..a thing of the past"). Does not look like it for all. Wearing a "White Power" patch as a police officer

@Neal is that video you posted related to Minneapolis? I have no idea what is going on there (video).
That's in west Texas, sheriff and his gang overreacting to a protest
https://www.newswest9.com/article/ne...6-007418bd4b11
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Old 05-30-2020, 06:10 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Buddahaid View Post
It's a big country. It's like saying there's no racism in Europe.
Of course, but my friend said it as if it were the general status quo in the US. He lived in Arizona (not that i believed him).
There is a lot of racism in Europe of course, but here it is often coupled to fear and loathing of foreigners, to nationalism and jingoism, either as a reason or the outcome of such mindset.

@Neal thanks, so another scenario. An exagerrated reaction or so it seems.
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Old 05-31-2020, 03:20 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
That's in west Texas, sheriff and his gang overreacting to a protest
https://www.newswest9.com/article/ne...6-007418bd4b11
If I recall correctly, Odessa is the location where an ex cop set up a "sting" proving the local police still used thermal imaging to find marijuana grow rooms after the Supreme Court ruled it Unconstitutional.
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Old 05-31-2020, 03:42 AM   #42
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Social dynamite due to a culture of violence and an incrwaing gap between hgaves and have-nots. Already the Romans knew that the latter is dangeorus and should niot go beyond a criticla treshhold.



Gets ignited by racism and a polcie in which racism obviously is an inherent issue. Because such killings happen again and again and again and again. I lost track of how many debates babout police killings we have had in my time in this fiorum, 20 years.



Still, several times forum member sinsisted that Americna societ yknows no racism, sicne it is written on some document. Its absurd, its relaity denial. And because it gets denied (Trump even tries to deflect again and blames lefties), it will be a problem that intensifies with every year passing by.



Its the unsolved inner contradictions of American society. And by battling the symptoms you will only battle the symptoms, not solve the root causes that constantly grow. Sooner or later they will become overwhelming, and the American state will become a failed state. With the massive devaluing of money comes growing prices and growing expropriation of the middle and low class.
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Old 05-31-2020, 04:10 AM   #43
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It doe snot happen often that I agree with the opinions voiced in the far-left leaning newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung (SZ), I dislike this one very much, but every once in a while they surprise me.

Quote:

America is on fire. From Houston to Brooklyn, from Portland to Atlanta, from Los Angeles to Lafayette Park opposite the White House in Washington, where the ministries of the surrounding ministries normally eat their lunches on sunny days, a wave of violence has occurred in recent days and devastation rolled over the US like the country has not seen in half a century.

The unrest was triggered by a murder: Last Monday, white policeman Derek Chauvin killed Black George Floyd while on duty in Minneapolis - a particularly shocking, but unfortunately by no means rare, case of racist police brutality in America. But the protests have long since resolved themselves from this occasion. They have turned into a much larger uprising, a discharge of anger and violence directed against the police in some places but blind to anything that is in the way in others.

After the violent death of African American George Floyd, the United States does not come to rest. US President Trump threatens demonstrators with the "unlimited power" of the US military.

You can think this violence is wrong and senseless and condemn it, even if you think that the anger that feeds it is understandable and justified. America's blacks have every right to be angry. You have every right to take to the streets and shout out this anger. And they have every right to fight against discrimination and harassment by the police. Freedom and justice, Martin Luther King knew very well, do not fall from the sky. You have to fight for it. However, whether this struggle should consist of looting the shops in their own residential area and setting them on fire is another question.

But the anger of the blacks is only part of the anger that has now swept through American society and is gradually eating away at their cohesion. Anger at "the system". Anger at "the elites". Anger at "the politics". Anger at "those up there". Anger at "the media". Or quite simply and fundamentally: anger at "the others", whoever "the others" may be in the given case. Everyone has something or someone to whom they can direct their anger, contempt and hatred.

This anger has been boiling in America for years. It flared up for the first time in 2008, when millions of Americans sank into a financial and economic crisis that was not their fault and for which none of the responsible bankers and politicians were ever held accountable. At the time, it manifested itself politically in the form of the arch-conservative tea party movement, which has meanwhile destroyed the old Republican Party. When Donald Trump ran for election in 2016, he didn't have to rage. He just had to stir it up. He made his political capital out of anger, it was the fuel for his victory. And because he wants to win again in November, he continues to fuel his anger today. This is immoral and extremely dangerous for America. But Trump could not do what he does with such great success if he did not have a large, eager audience - and many willing helpers: the cheering presenters at the right Fox News channel live just as much from Trump's rage as their outraged competitors at the left MSNBC transmitter. And Twitter, which is suddenly doing so with Trump tweets, owes its importance to a large extent to the man in the White House.

The corona pandemic acted like a fire accelerator in this charged atmosphere. Over 100,000 dead and over 40 million unemployed - this is brutal trauma for a society. The pandemic has not only mercilessly exposed all the political, economic and social injustices that the United States has suffered, but has also intensified them. Whoever had the right job before the virus, the right financial advisor, good health insurance and, above all, the right skin color - knows - will probably get through the crisis reasonably well, at least in material terms. Anyone who had to move from paycheck to paycheck with two or three jobs before the virus - and these are not just long ago, but a disproportionate number of blacks and Latinos - are now at risk of falling. The anger about it is greater than the fear of being infected with the virus in the crowd of a demo.

But the anger that is now pervading America's streets is not an exclusive feature of the political left. Right-wing "patriots" have been deployed to parliaments across the country in recent weeks to protest the curfews imposed by the corona pandemic, often heavily armed. It was less violent than the riots of the past few days, but it was by no means less frightening. These people may have different political views and goals than the Antifa protesters rioting in Minneapolis or spraying "**** Trump" on houses in Washington. What unites them is the anger at a "system" that they think is tyrannical and want to smash. But they see their compatriots in the other political camp not as American citizens, but as enemies. Anyone who believes that the riots last week are the unfortunate but unfortunately necessary prelude to a progressive revolution should be disappointed. Rather, they lead to something that resembles a civil war.

Perhaps the situation in Minneapolis and the other hot spots of the protests will calm down in the next few days. The anger will not go away. The fire is far from extinguished.

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/...rika-1.4923221
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:57 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Platapus View Post
Just like Europe has people who like to travel to football games just to fight, I am sure we have people here in the US who like to travel to protests to fight/loot


I just don't understand that mindset.
I have a heavy suspicion that if some magical field went over these people, preventing them from taking drugs/drinking, partying, networking, and having sex w/each other in their off hours, 95% of them wouldn't be there.
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:19 PM   #45
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Here are some interesting stuff you can dig into.

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fr...ONp2NNEhMvcKkY

And even this

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/...qkVRNmCsZsBXvs

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