US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Oh yes, this unthankful world just does not know how to recognize true grit and greatness and genius, its so sad! An innocent messiah walking on planet Earth again, and just everbody laughs. What infamy! I feel so dirty. So guilty. So undeserving. I almost want to cry.

Well go hide in the closet or something first because nobody wants to see you do that in public! Yech! Take your nazi analogies with you.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by August

Well go hide in the closet or something first because nobody wants to see you do that in public! Yech!

Come on August (edit that) and stop letting them get to you

[August]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Come on August (edit that) and stop letting them get to you

He's not getting to me, I was just toying with him. You get him going and next thing he's seriously justifying the assassination of women and children because they are related to a political leader he doesn't like. I figure he's not that far off coming up with a similar final solution for Trump and his supporters too and I just wanted to see if I could nudge him into revealing it. His rhetoric has spiked recently and I figure he's about to blow.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by August

.....Take your nazi analogies with you.

Says the person who just used them.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by August

He's not getting to me, I was just toying with him. You get him going and next thing he's seriously justifying the assassination of women and children because they are related to a political leader he doesn't like. I figure he's not that far off coming up with a similar final solution for Trump and his supporters too and I just wanted to see if I could nudge him into revealing it. His rhetoric has spiked recently and I figure he's about to blow.

Okay, have it your way ... It is a strange day when you bait your enemies

I'm going to take a break and stay out of the loop for a while ...

They say this impeachment thing could last till March after it goes to the Senate

[Skybird]

Trump & August 2020 !



Because they speak the same language and do the same tricks. Vote two buddies for a grrreater (tm) future!

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Not President Trump's hand writing just a note well written in printed style so he could read it back. Said the same thing in front of the WH without the note.

All of this will forgotten and the USA will move on to it's next big problem Black Friday sales

Oh, Mr Quatro, once again, the actual facts and truth upend both you and Trump; the notepad is plainly marked with "Aboard Air Force One", a pad which is almost always for the President's sole use (the mobile equivalent of "From The Desk Of The President Of The United States" letterhead), the notes are written in Trump's favorite writing instrument, the broad tip Sharpie (last widely seen falsely altering an official US Government map to deliberately mislead the public into thinking a hurricane, in an way at all, threatened to devastate the state of Alabama), and, the final proof of Trump's hand, the name of the Ukraine President is misspelled (its Zelensky, not "Zellinsky,"), the kind of error Trump does with great frequency in his tweets. So, the claims you have made really don't hold much credence...


Donald Trump Carries 'Quid Pro Quo' Notes to Air Force One, Misspells Ukrainian President Zelensky's Name --

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-notes...ro-quo-1473042


It should also be pointed out the call cited in the notes to Sondland was made very shortly after it was revealed the Whistleblower's complaint had been formally forwarded to the House of Representatives, in keeping with the law, and the call appears to be a frantic rearguard action to make it appear the original intent of Trump, Giuliani, et al, in the Ukraine was not a personally self-interested quid pro quo. This sort of attempt to 'rewrite' the truth post facto is a tactic that has been used often by Trump; the most egregious example is when Trump was caught withholding donations made, ostensibly, to the Trump Foundation to benefit veteran's charities; some USD $2.8 Million was raised, but Trump, via his foundation did not disperse the funds as intended by the contributors, but, instead withheld the funds and used them as a sort of 'slush fund' through which to make purchases for himself and to even payout money to settle personal lawsuit losses; it wasn't until some journalists asked some of the veterans charities that were supposed to receive payouts from the Trump Foundation about how the funds were being used to benefit veterans and the charities responded they had not received a single cent of the funds, that was when the news of the Trump Foundation fraud broke and Trump frantically disbursed some, but still not all of the donated money, all the while trying to make it seem as if the news stories had no impact on the disbursements when it was obvious, if there had been no stories, the funds would still be undisbused, likely to date...


The nature of Trump's call with Sondland with the claims of "No Quid Pro Quo!!" is eerily reminiscent of an Oval Office meeting involving Nixon, some of his co-conspirators, and John Dean, the White House Counsel. The Watergate scandal was beginning to lead up to the very desk of Nixon and those of his closest associates; they needed a fall guy, a patsy, and apparently decided Dean would be the perfect guy. The meeting was setup and the 'conversation' was rigged in such a way as to make it appear Dean was the actual originator and impetus behind Watergate; however, very early on Dean, being far from a fool, realized the direction of the 'conversation' and surmised it was being recorded so as to be presented as evidence of Dean's "crimes" and as an exoneration of Nixon, and, perhaps, some of Nixon's co-conspirators. Dean was careful of his words and, following the meeting, became one of, if not the most important, witnesses against Nixon and his administration...


Considering how Trump made his call statements almost immediately after the House formally received the Whistlblower's formal complaint, with the full knowledge of the now dire consequences of the alleged charges, and how he pointedly made cries of "No Quid Pro Quo!!" in an apparent attempt to counter growing evidence of the actual intent of Trump interactions with the Ukraine, one can only wonder if Sondland had a "John Dean" moment and realized, with a sleazeball like Trump, he was possibly being set up as a possible fall guy/patsy for Trump's Ukraine mess, much as Dean came to realize, in that Oval Office meeting, he was being set up by sleazeball Nixon...


Such a consideration could be the base of Sondland's enthusiasm to declare the existence of a quid pro quo, name those involved, and to describe, in detail, their activities. Consider his testimony as a sort of 'nuclear' preemptive strike against Trump and his minions' possible attempts to pin their crimes on him...


BTW, on your Black Friday shopping, you should avoid buying Trump/MAGA items: they may soon be next to worthless...






<O>

[u crank]

I've been watching the impeachment inquiry as much as I can stand it. The same things are repeated over and over by both sides. It is tiresome. I usually go to the CNN and Fox news websites, US edition/politics pages for my morning coffee. You would think there are two separate inquiries going on with the same cast of characters in each. The spin is remarkable. But there are some reasonable voices.

Democrats on the Intelligence Committee have spent the vast majority of their impeachment hearings trying to persuade voters that bureaucrats believe Donald Trump is impulsive, self-serving, and misguided — all of which is unsurprising, and completely irrelevant to the matter at hand.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...-been-useless/

For one thing, Hill’s broader contention is dubious. While Trump hasn’t called out Russia for interference, various other GOP leaders have done so on numerous occasions, including in a Senate intel report. And a person can simultaneously believe that both the Russians and Ukrainians meddled in 2016 to various degrees (and the Iranians.)

Even if one doesn’t, though, failing to adopt the Democrats’ histrionic tone over the threat of Twitter bots is neither criminal nor unconstitutional. (Reacting to 2016 as if it were Pearl Harbor, in fact, is likely quite pleasing to Putin.) If selling conspiracy theories to the American public for partisan reasons were a crime, Representative Adam Schiff would be serving consecutive life sentences in Supermax.

Harsanyi makes a point here I can't help but agree with.

To me, there’s little question such a call from the president — whether he was explicitly favor trading or not — is at the very least unethical and at most an abuse of power. Is it impeachable? That’s a political decision. Because, no matter how hard liberals try and convince you otherwise, the Trump presidency doesn’t operate in a vacuum. Republicans believe they’ve been living life under two sets of rules. Considering what previous administrations have gotten away with — and what many of the people now clamoring for impeachment helped them get away with — it’s difficult to blame them. Perhaps if Democrats and operatives within government hadn’t spent three years cooking up a fantastical Manchurian Candidate conspiracy to delegitimize Trump this impeachment inquiry might be playing out differently. As it stands now, the entire effort is drenched in partisanship. Which makes it extremely unlikely that many voters will be pried from their previously held positions. Nothing that’s been said during these hearings changes that fact.

I cannot help but think that the Democrats are painting themselves into a corner. I think there are only three possible options here. Drop the whole thing, hold a censure vote in the House, or hold an impeachment vote in the House. The first is most unlikely, the second is a possibility (and an out for Pelosi) and the third is almost for certain. The impeachment vote holds little risk for Trump other than hurting his election chances. The Democrats though may regret it.

[mapuc]

I made a search because I did remember seeing the president standing in front of the press saying those words.

Found it on youtube.



Markus

[Rockstar]

Quid Pro Quo is not on the list of impeachable offenses probably for the very reason that Quid Pro Quo it is not always looked at as an illegal act. On the other hand bribery is an impeachable offense. What matters is if the request was in the public's interests or it was done for personal gain. I for one would like to see an investigation opened on the Biden's association with a corrupt business like the Ukrainian company Burisma. On the other hand if it is shown Trump asked for something for personal gain then he may very well be facing impeachment for bribery. But just because it so happened Biden was a potential presidential election rival doesn't mean that's why Trump requested an investigation.

Its not that he asked for something in return for something. It has everything to do with WHY he asked.

[August]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Says the person who just used them.

If he can use them then why can't I in response?

[Buddahaid]

You can but you can't complain about it anymore then.

[Skybird]

Fear the revenge of a Goa'uld - these snake worms are terrible narcissists.


Anyway.

For almost an hour on Fox News, Donald Trump shared conspiracy theories about Ukrainian meddling in the 2016 US presidential election, again attacked a decorated former US ambassador and suggested a foreign service officer at the US embassy in Ukraine was lying under oath.
And those were just the bullet-point highlights.
It was yet further evidence that the president's take diverges entirely from the testimony of witnesses in the public impeachment hearings and the accounts reported in the mainstream US media.
Mr Trump, for instance, was adamant that a 26 July phone call between himself and Gordon Sondland, the US ambassador to the EU who was in Kiev at the time, "never took place".
It was during this call - confirmed by Mr Sondland himself - that witness David Holmes testified on Thursday that the president asked about Ukrainian "investigations" the day after Mr Trump had told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Democratic rival Joe Biden.
Critics will pick apart the president's comments, but if there's one thing clear after nearly three years of this presidency, when Mr Trump asserts his defence repeatedly and vociferously, his supporters and the Republican party back him up, no matter what fact-checkers may say.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50520652



The Democrats, sending a terrible lineup into battle themselves, a left-leaning crew that makes them weak and assailable themselves, are misled when thinking that truth, evidence, files will lead them anywhere, for this regime now simply will shamelessly lie on and on and on and even deny facts that get rubbed right into its face. And the mob cheering and applauding this doing, the gang of political opportunists who do not care for right and wrong, law and justice, but say yes and no on grounds of what serves their own career ambitions best, give this kind of infamy and brutality its undeserved reward. The mob never has followed sharp intellect or argument, fact or truth - the mob follows the alpha brute who yells and shouts the loudest and is the most brutal in slamming his fist into other people's face. This is where Trump excels in, brutality and shameless lie, and it is the only thing he excels in, for intellctually he is a zero. Thats what the mob wants to see when assembling before a stage. Not culture, but spectaculum - the messier and the more obscene and brutal, the better! Let the other side see who is the stronger one! The tougher one! Bang! Bang! Bang!



But if the little Cesar gets away with what he does, and even wins the next election, its becoming dangerous because he already has established a new, dangerous, brutal inhumane way of politics, so far not seen in this frankness in the West, only in tyrannies and dicatorships abroad.



Long time ago, fifteen years plus minus a few years or so, I said here in some long forgotten debate that ran hot like so many others back then, that to me the most likely scenario for the long time future of the Us is that it will turn into a fascist police state or fascist military dictatorship, which in the end is the same. When I sum up all what has happened since then, I see no reason to correct this prediction. The left will try to resist, and it will even try in violence sooner or later. But the right has the military and the secvuirty apparatus behind it. It will win. And then the gods may have mercy with those who held up the wrong colours.



The US will live on. But form these times on they will not have anything in common anymore with the visions the first settlers and foundign fathers had. And all that holy paper stuff in the museum will be worth the price for toilet paper only.



The Russians could not have caused greater destruction by launching a nuclear strike. Getting their useful idiot into the WH was the greatest victory of theirs ever. A triumph.

[Catfish]

^ Nah come on, it may be a shame, but T. is not the man or villain enough to bedevil him that way, not worth the effort.

He is intelligent or besser "gerissen" or "bauernschlau" enough to still have 50 percent of americans as supporters. It was hard enough to learn two strange languages, i cannot understand what happens and why. I gave up after Trump and brexit. Let it go, you won't change it, you will only amass hate if you try to understand it, relax. Humans are idiots, look at China, look at North Korea, at Russia, live with the facts, relax.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

On the other hand if it is shown Trump asked for something for personal gain then he may very well be facing impeachment for bribery. But just because it so happened Biden was a potential presidential election rival doesn't mean that's why Trump requested an investigation.

Its not that he asked for something in return for something. It has everything to do with WHY he asked.

I'm pretty sure a strong case can be made for Trump having absolutely no fear of being beaten in an election by creepy Joe Biden. LOL As a Republican who has appeared in porn, I think I could take Biden in an election.