Time to upgrade...

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Okay, how do I know if a board is setup for SLI or not?

The advertisment will say SLI or crossfire. SLI is Nvida boards and Crossfire is ATI boards.

[AVGWarhawk]

Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/Category...e=Motherboards

[AVGWarhawk]

This is exactly what I have with exception of my video card that is the 9800gt and I did bump it up to 8 gig of RAM. I love the machine. Never worry about a thing concerning having enough power. Plus, it is SLI ready so I can add another vid card if needed.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...768&CatId=3512

Not a bad price for this rig at all. All told with shipping I paid $938.00. This was last Christmas.

[onelifecrisis]

Thanks

I'm in the UK though

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Thanks

I'm in the UK though

Check with other UK members and see where they get PC stuff cheap.

[onelifecrisis]

Oh. My. God. You can get solid state SATA drives now! I want one! Does anyone know how much hard disk space Vista Home Basic uses up?

[Fluffysheap]

I'm not expecting great compatibility from Windows 7 when it first comes out but it should not be any worse than Vista. Main problem is that 64-bit on Windows 7 will be much more common than it is on Vista, and 64-bit makes some things worse compatibility-wise.

The Phenom is quite a bit faster than the Athlon, here's a good article:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ared,1759.html

Number of cores doesn't matter much for games, more than 2 cores aren't used by most games and DirectX prior to 11 makes it hard to do it even if you want to. But other kinds of apps (like video, photoshop, modeling, etc) can use more cores. AMD CPUs are competitive only at the low end anyway. Best CPU for the money by a wide margin right now is the Intel Core i5 series.

You cannot put an X16 PCI-e card (such as a graphics card) in an X1 PCI-e slot. Look at the slots you will see why X1 PCI-e slots are for network and sound cards typically. There are also X4 slots out there. On some motherboards there are slots that are X16 if you use one video card, and X8 if you use two. This will work OK but it's a little slower than those that are just X16 all of the time. It's not a big factor though really.

You don't need an SLI motherboard for Crossfire, current Crossfire requires only modern video cards and a motherboard with the right number of slots. SLI compatibility is an nVidia licensing thing that adds a couple bucks to the cost of the motherboard but doesn't actually mean anything hardware wise. Sometimes you can flash a non-SLI motherboard BIOS with the SLI BIOS version and get it to work, i.e. Gigabyte LGA1366 motherboards are like this, of course that's something where you need to do your own research before trying. But if you want to use ATI cards it's all moot anyway.

ATI hybrid crossfire is better than nothing but the 4850 is faster than the 3200+4550 put together anyway so that should answer that question. Main use of the hybrid crossfire capability is for people who have a motherboard with integrated graphics already and decide to put an add-in card in it. You shouldn't build a system specifically to take advantage of hybrid crossfire, it's no performance setup - I think the main reason it exists is to encourage people who own motherboards with ATI integrated graphics to buy ATI video cards.

I'm not a huge fan of crossfire/SLI in general. Main benefit is if you want to run really high resolutions with AA turned on. I have only a single 4870 and I can run most games in full detail at 1600x1200 without trouble, on new games I have to choose between high resolution and AA though.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

I'm not expecting great compatibility from Windows 7 when it first comes out but it should not be any worse than Vista. Main problem is that 64-bit on Windows 7 will be much more common than it is on Vista, and 64-bit makes some things worse compatibility-wise.

The Phenom is quite a bit faster than the Athlon, here's a good article:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ared,1759.html

Number of cores doesn't matter much for games, more than 2 cores aren't used by most games and DirectX prior to 11 makes it hard to do it even if you want to. But other kinds of apps (like video, photoshop, modeling, etc) can use more cores. AMD CPUs are competitive only at the low end anyway. Best CPU for the money by a wide margin right now is the Intel Core i5 series.

You cannot put an X16 PCI-e card (such as a graphics card) in an X1 PCI-e slot. Look at the slots you will see why X1 PCI-e slots are for network and sound cards typically. There are also X4 slots out there. On some motherboards there are slots that are X16 if you use one video card, and X8 if you use two. This will work OK but it's a little slower than those that are just X16 all of the time. It's not a big factor though really.

You don't need an SLI motherboard for Crossfire, current Crossfire requires only modern video cards and a motherboard with the right number of slots. SLI compatibility is an nVidia licensing thing that adds a couple bucks to the cost of the motherboard but doesn't actually mean anything hardware wise. Sometimes you can flash a non-SLI motherboard BIOS with the SLI BIOS version and get it to work, i.e. Gigabyte LGA1366 motherboards are like this, of course that's something where you need to do your own research before trying. But if you want to use ATI cards it's all moot anyway.

ATI hybrid crossfire is better than nothing but the 4850 is faster than the 3200+4550 put together anyway so that should answer that question. Main use of the hybrid crossfire capability is for people who have a motherboard with integrated graphics already and decide to put an add-in card in it. You shouldn't build a system specifically to take advantage of hybrid crossfire, it's no performance setup - I think the main reason it exists is to encourage people who own motherboards with ATI integrated graphics to buy ATI video cards.

I'm not a huge fan of crossfire/SLI in general. Main benefit is if you want to run really high resolutions with AA turned on. I have only a single 4870 and I can run most games in full detail at 1600x1200 without trouble, on new games I have to choose between high resolution and AA though.

Excellent info, thanks very much Fluffysheap! I think I'm getting a grip now on the latest hardware technobabble (I ought to be, having spent all day reading about it ) and I've found a good deal on the following system:

Intel Core i5-750
nVidia GeForce GTX 260 896MB (in a 16X PCI-E 2.0 slot)
2GB DDR3 1600MHz
640GB 7200rpm SATA HDD (3GB/s, 16MB cache)

I figure that CPU and GPU combo should run everything out there. The 2GB of RAM can be increased later if needed, but the HDD... well it's certainly big enough for my purposes, but will it be fast enough for modern games?

[Arclight]

The HD is the last thing to worry about, if you have enough RAM (seriously, go with 4GB, 2x2GB). But considering it has a 16MB cache, it's a modern drive, it will keep up just fine.

[onelifecrisis]

Thanks Arclight.
Can you explain why I need an extra 2Gb? I mean I've yet to see any games recommend more than 2Gb of RAM. Even the YouGamers recommended rigs, for the more demanding games I've looked at, never seem to exceed 2Gb.

[onelifecrisis]

This thread starts getting interesting at post #15

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=93330

[onelifecrisis]

Should I get Vista 32bit or 64bit? I've done some googling on this and can't find a definitive answer.

All my apps are 32bit, and to run them Vista 64bit would have to operate in "32bit emulation mode". One point to Vista 32bit.

Vista 64bit can handle more than 4Gb of RAM. This would seem to be one point to 64bit, but when you consider that 4Gb is already twice as much as is needed by the most demanding games (see previous posts) I'm thinking it's more like half a point to 64bit.

Vista 64bit will be more future proof, but that future seems a long way off right now, since there are hardly any games at all which utilise 64bit technology and none on the horizon. Half a point to 64bit.

So it's even stevens at one point each.

[bybyx]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

I really wasn't sure where to post this. It's not got anything to do with SH3 Mods, but I figure the mods forum is where the techy types hang out.

Anyway it's time to replace my 5YO rig, but I'm a bit baffled by the new hardware options. Which is better - a standalone HD4850 graphics card, or a HD4550 in hybrid crossfire with a HD3200? Also, how much more powerful is a Phenom II X4 when compared with an Athlon II X4? Help plz.

Hello OLC. I like this topic of yours.
I will start by asking the most important question. How big is the budget for your pc? The second most important is. For what purpose will you use it? And another: From where are you going to buy the rig? A link to some sites in UK will help.
Here's my two cents:
When you buy a new rig it is always good to plan ahead. I personally take my time and buy when a completely new generation comes to the market. Why? Because after 2 years or so I can upgrade my rig without the need to start from scratch. Having a latest generation motherboard and a good PSU will allow you, 2 years from now, to upgrade 2 or 3 parts like CPU, Ram, Video Card and give a new life to your PC. For example I bought a PC in 2004 when I started my PHD studies in Geography because I was in need of a more potent PC for working with maps, and for playing DOOM3, Far Cry and HL2. In 2006 I replaced the, Cpu, Video Card and added 1gb of Ram. I could do all this because the motherboard and PSU could support the newer and more power hungry parts parts. In my opinion the priority of the parts in a PC is:
1. See what you can use from you current rig ( optical drives, FDD, a HDD for storage etc.) I still have in my PC the 2004 CD-RW and DVD-RW.
2. Motherboard. A good motherboard is more reliable and it allows you to place more powerful components and in generally it makes the computer run more smoothly. Also an advanced motherboard is ideal for overclocking
3. PSU. Provides power to the entire rig. A good quality PSU will ensure stability, protection and enough juice for the components in a PC, especially for the power hungry Video Cards.
4. CPU. You need a good CPU to run different applications faster. Also having a powerful CPU is not enough. You will need fast RAM,fast HDD and fast Video Card. There is a need for balance between these components. You can have the most powerful CPU, but a crappy Video Card will slow the PC down and vice versa. Sadly a lot of games are CPU bounded and not VGA bounded.
5. RAM. The more ram you have the better. Choose Ram that will go with the motherboard. Fast Ram is great.
6. Hdd. Is better to have more than one. If the budget allows buy a really fast one for OS, programs and games and a standard one slower but with large capacity for storage. The Hdd is the slowest part in a PC.
7. Video Card.(VGA) This one is a bitch. A powerful card is expensive, two are even more expensive.
8. Case. A PC needs ventilation in order to keep the temperature down. Heat for a PC is bad. A big case is necessary for a powerful rig.
9. Sound Card goes hand in hand with the loudspeakers. If you want excellent sound buy excellent sound card and speakers.
The rest like optical drives, Fdd( really buy one! is very cheap and you never know when you will need one) mouse, keyboard, mouse pad, display are more of a "Chacun a son gout"

Hope it helps!

[Fluffysheap]

I'd probably get XP and then upgrade to Windows 7 later. Everybody hates Vista although, in reality, Windows 7 is not going to be that different. Unless you have some DX10 thing you want to use right now though, there's no good reason to get Vista. You can still find XP and OEM versions of XP are pretty cheap.

640GB is a small drive by today's standards, but it depends on what you do. I have 3TB total but then, I also use my PC as a media server. A friend of mine has 500GB and only does games and the web and his drive is still half empty. If you mostly care about games 640GB will be OK.

It's hard to upgrade RAM nowadays... it's not like the old days where you could just stick in more RAM and have it work. Now all the RAM in a system has to "match" so you pretty much have to take the old RAM out when you put in new. I tried to upgrade from 2GB to 4GB and I even made sure to get the same part number of RAM, but it wouldn't work because the manufacturer had changed the voltage rating on the memory without changing the part number!

Whether to get 2GB or 4GB depends on what you are doing. If you just want to run games and you don't plan on doing any funny business, then 2GB is probably enough for now. But if you want to do something like leave your web browser open with a couple dozen tabs while you play, or use non-game apps that are big memory users (photoshop, modeling programs, whatever), you'll be happier with 4GB. Even though any one program in a 32-bit system is limited to 2GB of memory, the extra RAM will allow you to multitask better. Plus, the OS takes up half a gig nowadays. But most importantly, RAM is cheap - to go from 2GB to 4GB will cost you $30 and save you an upgrade a year from now when it starts to matter. The downside is that, without 64-bit OS, you can't use the whole 4GB. (Well 32-bit Linux can, and Server 2003, but you're not going to use either of those for games!)

One last thing, be sure to get a good power supply. This can have a significant impact on your system stability and upgradability. Overall, power supply quality is improving in the sense that a medium-priced PSU can now be as good as a really good one from a couple years ago; but a cheap power supply will suck as much as ever.

Edit: Awesome! I look like Popeye now!

[onelifecrisis]

Thanks bybyx. I am a few steps ahead of you I think.

I can use the peripherals (keyboard, mouse, monitor) and optical drives from my old PC as well as (if needed) the sound card. With this in mind I've shopped around and the best sites I've found so far are www.pcspecialist.co.uk (excellent) and www.cyberpowersystems.co.uk (also very good). The former has a deal on 4850X2 cards, and I've put together this system for £587 including VAT and delivery:

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2
CPU: Intel® Core™i5
GPU: 1GB ATI RADEON™ HD 4850X2 (considerably more powerful than a GTX 260 or even a GTX 280, but priced amazingly because of their special offer)
RAM: 2GB DDR3 1600MHz (another 2GB would push the price past my £600 limit)
HDD: 250GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
O/S: Windows Vista Home Basic (32bit)
PSU: High Quality 450W PSU

It has no peripherals and no optical drives.

Their site has a neat feature where you choose your custom build and it works out how much power you'll need (it even adds a 20% contingency to be safe). Also their PSU's are good quality ones, judging by the prices they're charging for them (PSUs are the only thing on the site that aren't amazingly well priced) which I find reassuring given that my old PC has blown 3 PSUs in the last 3 weeks.

Also, with the build above I get a free copy of Operation Flashpoint 2 which is a nice bonus since that's one the games I wanted a new rig for.