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Old 10-13-13, 03:50 AM   #1
plj
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Default Reworked U-boat Guns (incomplete version)

I could not find a topic .. just the download.

Could it be correct that resupply does not do what you would expect for the new AA rounds for the deckgun ?
Should the deckgun have these in the first place ?

Probably RSD related .. but if I fire HE into a conning tower of VIIb .. should that not be endex for that VIIb ? It's not.. 4 extra isnt either ... few AP to the waterline .. still sitting there. Took a torpedo for it to realize it should perhaps start sinking.
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Old 10-13-13, 07:30 AM   #2
V13dweller
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I think that the AA rounds should not be on the Deckgun, because it does not have the capability to attack aircraft to to it's limited traverse and elevation.

The game files appear to have it an intermediate damage, between the HE and AP rounds, making it redundant.

I do not understand what you mean by the last part.
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Old 10-13-13, 08:20 AM   #3
gap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plj View Post
I could not find a topic .. just the download.
This is the thread for discussing the reworked u-boat guns mod:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...29#post1935329

Quote:
Originally Posted by plj View Post
Could it be correct that resupply does not do what you would expect for the new AA rounds for the deckgun ?
Should the deckgun have these in the first place ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by V13dweller View Post
I think that the AA rounds should not be on the Deckgun, because it does not have the capability to attack aircraft to to it's limited traverse and elevation.
Sorry guys, those rounds are not acually meant to represent AA but incendiary ammo, which by the way was usually carried aboard U-boats. Not being implemented in stock game, the discussed ammo selection misses the settings needed for it to be supplied during refits. The version of the mod posted by Volodya wasn't initially meant for release, thus the missing settings. The next version will feature the needed refit settings, as well as appropriate shell damage/AP settings, and correct shell designations. In the meanwhile I suggest you to edit manually the 88mm gun sim file, replacing the incendiary rounds with normal HE rounds.

Thank you for reporting

Quote:
Originally Posted by plj View Post
Probably RSD related .. but if I fire HE into a conning tower of VIIb .. should that not be endex for that VIIb ? It's not.. 4 extra isnt either ... few AP to the waterline .. still sitting there. Took a torpedo for it to realize it should perhaps start sinking.
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Originally Posted by V13dweller View Post
I do not understand what you mean by the last part.
Neither do I
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Old 10-13-13, 10:38 AM   #4
plj
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The last part is about the destructability of the sub. I stumbled upon another sub in the Kiel canal ... could not resist and fired a few shots at it ... which it laughed at.

I'm not entirely sure, but wouldnt a direct HE hit on a conning tower end the subs life then and there ? Or on the waterline front of the sub .. that would destroy the torpedo's .. and the sub with them ..

Yet, 5 HE shells and 4 AP shells later, I decide to fire a freaking torpedo at it, since it wont go down ... impact, and then it slowly starts sinking.

This seems a little unrealistic to me .. I'd expect it to go down a lot faster tbh ?
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Old 10-13-13, 12:04 PM   #5
vdr1981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plj View Post

Probably RSD related .. but if I fire HE into a conning tower of VIIb .. should that not be endex for that VIIb ? It's not.. 4 extra isnt either ... few AP to the waterline .. still sitting there. Took a torpedo for it to realize it should perhaps start sinking.
Why you always think that RSD is to be blamed?

AI submarines, same like other AI ships use totally different set of damage zones, definitions , HP/AP settings...So when you shoot at something-It's not RSD related...When something shoots at YOU-that's RSD related...
Got it?

EDIT:
Maybe you're asking to much... Me and Gap are having very hard time just to create damage modeling for few playable subs, which are basically the same...To rework damage model of all ships, present and imported in SH5, would be gigantic job...But, never say never...

Last edited by vdr1981; 10-13-13 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 10-13-13, 01:46 PM   #6
gap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plj View Post
The last part is about the destructability of the sub. I stumbled upon another sub in the Kiel canal ... could not resist and fired a few shots at it ... which it laughed at.

I'm not entirely sure, but wouldnt a direct HE hit on a conning tower end the subs life then and there ? Or on the waterline front of the sub .. that would destroy the torpedo's .. and the sub with them ..

Yet, 5 HE shells and 4 AP shells later, I decide to fire a freaking torpedo at it, since it wont go down ... impact, and then it slowly starts sinking.

This seems a little unrealistic to me .. I'd expect it to go down a lot faster tbh ?
Yes, an 88mm HE shell fired straight at a submarine should cause severe damage to it. At present, neither R.S.D. nor Reworked U-boat Guns deal with round damage settings, and they don't affect at all AI submarines' dmage models (IIRC neithe FXU touches them: they are still stock). In other words, if you played stock game, you would get similar or identical results to the ones you have just reported.

As stated by Vecko, SH5 units and ordnance damage is something that should be addressed globally. Such a general rebalance would be a huge task, but at some point someone should undertake it
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Old 10-13-13, 04:12 PM   #7
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Ah .. damage models are different for player controlled VS not .. that's kinda backwards, but then I didnt say anything at all :p

But that explains my bewilderment after pumping round 7 into her and still not seeing any noticable damage, while my own sub starts to sink as soon as someone looks the wrong way :/ :p
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Old 10-13-13, 04:52 PM   #8
gap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plj View Post
Ah .. damage models are different for player controlled VS not .. that's kinda backwards, but then I didnt say anything at all :p

But that explains my bewilderment after pumping round 7 into her and still not seeing any noticable damage, while my own sub starts to sink as soon as someone looks the wrong way :/ :p
Yes, even though externally they look identical, playable and AI u-boats are separate units.

I think that for homogeneity with RSD, Vecko should also update AI sub damage, using for them similar settings as the ones used for player's subs. Heavily simpliefied though.
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Old 10-13-13, 05:15 PM   #9
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Only in a wolfpack situation does this become relevant ... so I'd put it at the bottom of some todo list .. somewhere :p
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Old 10-13-13, 05:27 PM   #10
gap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plj View Post
Only in a wolfpack situation does this become relevant ... so I'd put it at the bottom of some todo list .. somewhere :p
Yes indeed
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Old 05-25-19, 01:01 PM   #11
XenonSurf
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I have now made a mod for my SH5 modlist of these Reworked U-Boat Guns by modifying the severe gun handlings back to the stock handling for EASY gameplay, yet keeping all other changes like HE and AA shells added and new weapon performances.

I'm afraid the modders have modded these files 'to death' without testing them, otherwise they would have noticed that the guns are maybe realistic, yet almost unplayable with their changes


Mod is subdivised in:

Reworked U-boat Guns_from_TWoS_EASY_HANDLING (New)
Reworked U-boat Guns_from_TWoS_REALISTIC_HANDLING (no changes made, just changing mod name)




My mod is based on the TWoS files v.2.2.10 and could be used as long as Veko doesn't make changes to them (meaning it's not totally compatible). Else it will be part of my modlist that you can find and soon download here:


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=241069


Have fun with SH5!
XS
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