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Old 01-06-2015, 01:01 PM   #1
Leandros
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Default SHIII/SH4 mission editor

I Believe I put this question in the wrong thread. Please excuse me for repeating it here:
As I understand it the SHIII ME can be used for SH4, too. However, I find a difference in the loading up procedure of missions to the game. While SHIII operates with a folder/file structure where the folder/missions are separated into the various languages - SH4 does not.

SHIII has the folder/files organized like this: Data/SingleMissions/xxxxfolder/xxxxlanguage/xxxx.mis
SH4 goes like this: Data/SingleMissions/xxxxfolder/xxxx.mis

I have tried to load up missions in SH4 without the language folder but it's not getting through. It can be Another fault, the ME is quite finicky, but the difference must mean something.

Anybody?

Fred
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:14 PM   #2
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SH4 has it's own ME. The way it works is pretty much the same. There is no 'how-to' manual for the SH4 ME; you have to read the one for SH3.
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Old 01-07-2015, 05:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorpX View Post
SH4 has it's own ME. The way it works is pretty much the same. There is no 'how-to' manual for the SH4 ME; you have to read the one for SH3.
Thank you - I know. Which is why I have used the one (manual) for SH3. However, there is a discrepancy as described in my earlier posting. I just wonder if that is the reason why the missions are not uploaded. They are "validated" OK.

Folders and missions are there when I try to open them from the ME but not when I try to open them via the game on the "C" drive.

Fred


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Old 01-08-2015, 09:30 AM   #4
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I have never used SHIII's Mission Editor however, I don't think .mis files made on one ME will work on the other. There are too many different ship/plane files between the two games to have one ME work with both. It's been my impression that when a mission is made, your specific game files (whether they are modified or not) go directly into the mission that's being saved. I've encountered missions I've made using mods that add ships to the game...... not have those ships displayed in-game if I removed the mod. The .mis file expects the same ship make-up to be present when you run the mission in-game. That's why I believe the SHIII .mis mission's will not run in a SH4 game. It's my opinion, you need to chose which ME to use on the basis of which units do I wish to see in-game. SHIII or SH4's?

A couple of things about the SH4 Mission Editor.

I always put a Mission Title to the mission I'm making. Opening the "Missions" menu and clicking the "Language Localization" heading, I will use a name for the mission that I plan to call the Folder which will eventually hold the .mis file in the Data/SingleMissions folder of the game.



In other words, always chose a name for the mission that will be exactly the same as the folder you plan on saving it in.

After you've made your mission; checked it for faults with the "Missions" menu "Validate Mission" feature, and if all is well....




I will open the "File" menu heading and use "Save (normal mission) as...." to save my created mission. I never use the "Save" heading (I don't know, I just don't!). You'll get a pop-up menu like this (once you have chosen the correct path to save your .mis file in):




I will use the "Create New Folder" to do just that.....create the new folder with the same name as the Mission Title (in this case "AoB Test"). Make sure you have the correct "Type" of mission displayed in the lowest box....in this case an American Mission File [.mis].

When you have the "AoB Test" folder ready to go, then you're ready to name the file "AoB Test.mis", and click the "Save" button.




You should find your new xxx folder, with the same name as the xxx.mis file sitting in the Data/SingleMissions folder. Starting the game, and finding it in the Single Missions menu (or is it the Quick Missions menu of the stock game?) you should be able to chose your new mission.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:33 AM   #5
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Fred as I understand you, you'll be using the SH4 ME for your mission building....yet needing to use the only good tutorial for SHIII's ME for reference. That will work just fine, I do too.

One thing you might want to do is to download a mission someone has built and see what they did. That AoB Test Mission is a simple .mis file having a stationary submerged Porpoise sub with several Japanese ships approaching at different headings. You can have JSGME load it into your game, finding it in the Single Missions menu of the game. It's short, but to the point. There are no plane fly overs, but that's not what I made it for.

You do have to be a bit careful with your units (although, I think this may be just what YOU want). I remember making a similar mission with Jap ships approaching. Behind them a couple of miles, I had a U.S. carrier and a couple of escorts approaching next. As I watched the Jap's go by, a couple of U.S. planes swooped in and sunk one of the ships! They had spawned from the carrier on their own and did exactly what they should have done......detected and attacked the enemy! That's not what I wanted to do, but it's what I should have expected.

One thing you may want to do is add a mod that allows you to have a better "Free Camera" than what the stock game offers. Not that I'm pushing my mod to you (most mega mods do the same thing), but using Optical Targeting Correction for the stock game will give you a much better view of the outside world. You can get as close as you would like to the units involved, even positioning the camera on a ship, to get a "first person" perspective of the action. Using the "pause" key you can stop the action, yet still move the camera around to a position you like for a picture. I've even paused the game, moved the camera into the path of an incoming shell, then restarted the action listening to the shell as it wizzes past. Neat stuff!
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The HMS Shannon vs. USS Chesapeake outside Boston Harbor June 1, 1813

USS Chesapeake Captain James Lawrence lay mortally wounded...
Quote:
.."tell the men to fire faster, fight 'till she sinks,..boys don't give up the ship!"
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnScurvy View Post
Fred as I understand you, you'll be using the SH4 ME for your mission building....yet needing to use the only good tutorial for SHIII's ME for reference. That will work just fine, I do too.
That is correct and I have made missions with this in the SHIII. I do see a difference in the SH4 ME from what is described in the manual - "mission parameter" looks different.

The couple of trials I have made are quite simple and all validated. I have tested them with the "time" testing tool, too. They work. I have a distinct feeling there is something peculiar with the folder or file arrangements in the game as I find the saved folder/files when I try to open them through the ME but not when opening them through Windows. It is as if the game either refuse to accept - or show them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnScurvy View Post
One thing you might want to do is to download a mission someone has built and see what they did. That AoB Test Mission is a simple .mis file having a stationary submerged Porpoise sub with several Japanese ships approaching at different headings. You can have JSGME load it into your game, finding it in the Single Missions menu of the game. It's short, but to the point. There are no plane fly overs, but that's not what I made it for.
I haven't installed the JSGME on the new computer/game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnScurvy View Post
You do have to be a bit careful with your units (although, I think this may be just what YOU want). I remember making a similar mission with Jap ships approaching. Behind them a couple of miles, I had a U.S. carrier and a couple of escorts approaching next. As I watched the Jap's go by, a couple of U.S. planes swooped in and sunk one of the ships! They had spawned from the carrier on their own and did exactly what they should have done......detected and attacked the enemy! That's not what I wanted to do, but it's what I should have expected.
Well, that sounds great!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnScurvy View Post
One thing you may want to do is add a mod that allows you to have a better "Free Camera" than what the stock game offers. Not that I'm pushing my mod to you (most mega mods do the same thing), but using Optical Targeting Correction for the stock game will give you a much better view of the outside world. You can get as close as you would like to the units involved, even positioning the camera on a ship, to get a "first person" perspective of the action. Using the "pause" key you can stop the action, yet still move the camera around to a position you like for a picture. I've even paused the game, then restarted the action listening to the shell as it wizzes past. Neat stuff!
I'm missing that on the SH4 version I have (1.4.0), I used that function a lot in SHIII. I'll look into your suggestions.

What mods do you recommend me to install otherwise?

Fred

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Old 01-08-2015, 11:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
The couple of trials I have made are quite simple and all validated. I have tested them with the "time" testing tool, too. They work. I have a distinct feeling there is something peculiar with the folder or file arrangements in the game as I find the saved folder/files when I try to open them through the ME but not when opening them through Windows. It is as if the game either refuse to accept - or show them.
I'm suspecting the mission is not being "saved" in the right, or complete path. As I pointed out, save your mission using the "Save (normal mission) as...." heading under the "File" menu. This gives you complete control as to where the mission will be saved. Go-back several folder's in your Path menu box (as far back as the C:/ drive) to make sure your "saving" the mission in the correct game folder. Once your in the correct "Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific" main game folder, the correct path should read "Data/SingleMissions/xxx/ (the folder that has the exact name as your xxx.mis file).

I do see some differences between the SHIII Mission Editor and the SH4 ME. Besides the SHIII missions needing to be placed in either the "English" or "German" language version Folders; the SHIII ME does not create a .tsr file, but rather makes a .cfg file to go along with the .mis file. I'm convinced that there is no way a mission from SHIII will work in SH4.

When "saving" your mission with the SH4 ME the .tsr file is automatically included along with the .mis file. Some of the stock game missions have a picture of a map that go along with the mission briefing.....that's what the .tga image file is for within the mission Folder.

Oh, I forgot you have SH4 version 1.4. Well, you're in luck. I've got an edition of Optical Targeting Correction just for version 1.4 found HERE. It's got the same Free Camera as the other editions. I would suggest you get a finished mission up and working first before installing JSGME and any mods to give you a better Free Camera.
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The HMS Shannon vs. USS Chesapeake outside Boston Harbor June 1, 1813

USS Chesapeake Captain James Lawrence lay mortally wounded...
Quote:
.."tell the men to fire faster, fight 'till she sinks,..boys don't give up the ship!"

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Old 01-08-2015, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
....there is something peculiar with the folder or file arrangements in the game.....It is as if the game either refuse to accept - or show them.
Well, remember me telling you that the newer Operating Systems (since XP) seem to have a hissy fit if you try to add/change the game files in any way, provided the game is either placed in the OS's "Programs" folder, or the "Programs (x86)" folder? The OS thinks some underhanded force is tinkering with the program file when its trying to be changed, so it doesn't allow it to happen. This could be what's happening with you trying to add a mission file to the game. I'm not clear if you installed the game in one of these folders, or made a "new" folder directly under your C:/ or D:/ drive to install your game? I recommend you should not have the game in either of these "Programs" folders.
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The HMS Shannon vs. USS Chesapeake outside Boston Harbor June 1, 1813

USS Chesapeake Captain James Lawrence lay mortally wounded...
Quote:
.."tell the men to fire faster, fight 'till she sinks,..boys don't give up the ship!"
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:02 PM   #9
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Hi, Leander, I am not trying to install files from SHIII ME. I am only using the SH4 ME. I have installed the game in the "Programs 86" folder, it also accepted the 1.4.0 update.

What intrigues me is that the folders/files I have created, when I try to open them from the ME, they are there - as are all the rest! But when I look for them from the Windows (C drive) folder side those I have created are not. I run it as administrator.

Folders/files are correctly configured.

Fred
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:04 PM   #10
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This is getting back to the question about Windows 8.1....what's it doing to folder's/files that try to change/add things in the "Programs (x86)" folder? I still think you need to have the game installed in something other than the Programs (x86) folder. It would seem even running as the "Administrator" the OS isn't adding the Saved .mis files correctly.

You could try one other thing.

Right click on your desktop. I'm guessing Win 8.1 still allows you to create a "New Folder" on your desktop. Create the folder naming it "Game Missions". Open your ME, then open the "Normal" mission you've already created. Save this mission (as I've stated earlier, use the Save (normal mission) as.... heading) into the "Game Missions" folder on your desktop. Close out the ME. You should see two files in the desktop "Game Missions" folder.....one xxx.mis file, one xxx.tsr file. Now, open the Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific/Data/SingleMissions folder, and create a new folder within it, using the same name as the .mis file you just saved. Copy/paste the two files from the desktop "Game Missions" folder into the newly created folder in the games SingleMissions folder.

Are they there? Or, did the OS refuse to allow the copy/paste?

If your game's SingleMissions folder list's your mission as expected, start the game to see if it shows in the list of "Quick Missions" found on the main game's menu page. If so, start the mission to see if that's what you made?

If not......remove the game from the Programs (x86) folder. Open the Registry and remove any remnants as described HERE, and do a complete re install. Directing the path of installation to a new folder like C:/My Games. Before starting your newly installed game, add the 1.4 patch to your game. Delete any old shortcut's you may have on your desktop (the .exe/app shortcut to start the game; the shortcut you may have made to open the Mission Editor)....make new ones from the new main game folder.

======================

A Google search can help explain WHY you should not put games into the Programs or Programs (x86) folders. Here's one of the search results:
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The HMS Shannon vs. USS Chesapeake outside Boston Harbor June 1, 1813

USS Chesapeake Captain James Lawrence lay mortally wounded...
Quote:
.."tell the men to fire faster, fight 'till she sinks,..boys don't give up the ship!"

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Old 01-08-2015, 05:46 PM   #11
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Leander, you did it again! That is, I followed your advise to shuttle it through a folder on the desktop. The reason I obviously did not get them through directly was that when I transferred from the desktop folder to the SH4 folder the machine asked for andministrator's approval on both files. It never did that when I tried to save them directly from the ME.

Below is a picture of my quite modest test scenario - a Sargo waiting for a Japanese destroyer North of Lingayen Bay.

Again, a thousand thanks to you! You are truly a half-god!

I shall PM you.

Fred




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Old 01-09-2015, 04:01 PM   #12
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That's great!!

No half-god here (although it's nice of you to say so....I'll run it past my wife tonite). Just a guy with a little bit of computer knowledge, sometimes just enough to get into trouble!

Your finished book "River Wide, Ocean Deep" looks very intriguing! I had no idea that Germany had such wide ambitions as to include the possible early invasion of England. It goes to show what little I know, I had not heard of the "Operation Sea Lion" before. Interesting to say the least!

Take care my friend.
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The HMS Shannon vs. USS Chesapeake outside Boston Harbor June 1, 1813

USS Chesapeake Captain James Lawrence lay mortally wounded...
Quote:
.."tell the men to fire faster, fight 'till she sinks,..boys don't give up the ship!"
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Old 01-09-2015, 04:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
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That's great!!

No half-god here (although it's nice of you to say so....I'll run it past my wife tonite). Just a guy with a little bit of computer knowledge, sometimes just enough to get into trouble!.
Well, Leander was a Greek mythology semi-god........

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnScurv2276454
Your finished book "River Wide, Ocean Deep" looks very intriguing! I had no idea that Germany had such wide ambitions as to include the possible early invasion of England. It goes to show what little I know, I had not heard of the "Operation Sea Lion" before. Interesting to say the least!

Take care my friend.
You'll get the chance to know more about it now...

I have been trying out the editor a little. It works fine now - with some adaptations.....still lacking a few functions I have in the GWX SHIII. I miss the possibility to jump to the planes with the camera, too.

I have posted a couple of pictures just to give you an idea on how I intend to make some use of it - pictures for my next book project - "Saving MacArthur".

Fred

USS Enterprise leaving Pearl Harbor for The Philippines on Dec. 18th. 1941



IJN Kongo battling on after three torpedo hits by USS Swordfish.




USS Gridley receives a direct hit from the main battery of IJN Kongo.






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Old 01-12-2015, 06:59 AM   #14
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Hi, everybody - is there a way to add more US airplane types into SH4? I have the 1.4.0 version.

My version has only the Buffalo as fighter, the Vindicator as light bomber and a Lancaster (iii) as Heavy bomber.

Fred
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:18 AM   #15
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Default Change of guard

I found a rudimentary way to transfer airplane types from SHIII to SH4. So, the "Pacific" Lancaster is out and the PBY is in. Next in is the Liberator. Unfortunately I only have the basic SHIII on my new computer so the selection is somewhat sparse.

Below - change of guards:







And the Liberator:



Fred
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