[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Question about the career lengths. In game and the in real life.

In game, I already didn't accepted a desk job, but after 2 years. I think I began march 42, my last patrol was December of 43, going to another one early 44.



And in real live, what was the normal length for a command of a submarine?

for SH4, if you can succeed on a consistent basis, and survive, your career can span from December 1941 to August 1945. 25 to 30 war patrols.

in real life, commanding officers (aka CO) who were successful and survived made 4 to 6 patrols depending on their age and the stress incurred during the 4 to 6 patrols. after that surviving Sub CO's went to all kinds of other billets: squadron staff, training billets, Pentagon, etc.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

And manage to get my first ship with the type 18. Found a small convoy, shoot my last 3 torpedoes, one 14 to the first ship and the last two 18 to the other.

The convoy was give has medium speed. I did the 3m with the map, 9knts.

Did 3m and used the fire controls, 13 knts. Hmmm, but the bow spray on that lead merchant...

I shot the fishes, the 14 passed in front of the bow, arrgghhhh. The speed was wrong again....
And then, torpedo impact. They hit the rear. Lovely...



Question about the career lengths. In game and the in real life.

In game, I already didn't accepted a desk job, but after 2 years. I think I began march 42, my last patrol was December of 43, going to another one early 44.



And in real live, what was the normal length for a command of a submarine?

Ahhhh....

The trick to shooting with MK 18 torpedoes is to firing on a bearing that gives the slow (MK 18 travels at 29 knots max range 4000 yards) electric torpedoes time to "meet" their target vs firing with a faster torpedo such as MK 14 or 23. With 14 or 23 ( 46 knots 4500 yards on high power, well 23 is 46 4500 yards, no low power setting, extra 500 yards makes a big difference), waiting until they cross bearing "0" on your scope/TBT , firing the ideal shot from 1000 yards or 2000-2500 on surface, torpedoes have the speed to compensate for even fast moving targets (although always better to fire before at fast movers so torpedoes meet them as well. Issue with torpedoes that produce wakes "leading" to "meet" their target, is they will be ahead and thus more visible to AI lookouts, more likely to spot, slow, and avoid. Yes, in testing have noticed much like humans, AI visual sensor tends to be more alert to what ahead or just off to the peripherals of the ship than behind. Confirmed this in testing the night surface attacks for the mod) where as the MK 18 does not have the extra speed/range speed to "catch" the target. Also, never shoot a mixed load of electric and steam fish, unless can't help it. Best to shoot all electric or all steam. So, depending on set up...

In a bow shot situation, depending on range, position to target, but will talk the normal bow shot, aiming for the desired 90 degree AOB etc.


Target is traveling east at 9 knots , you have a starboard AOB, you are submerged, range is 2000 yards and closing...target reaches bearing 345-350, go ahead and aim periscope/TBT middle of target and fired desired number of torpedoes at five second intervals. With PK you can just use the first bearing but I have found with the MK 18, it works best to send a updated bearing manually for each torpedo (O Kane did this as mentioned in book, fired each torpedo as a individual shot, often aiming at different places along targets hull. Say fired four , would fire two at middle of target, one on forward mast, one of aft. This provided pretty decent target coverage. I do this in some situations, but with the 18 have found its best to just aim for MOT, fire at 5 second intervals, and updating bearing before each shot)

I am somewhat confused how you went from 9 knots to 13? Fire controls, does that mean you let the crew tell you how fast were moving i.e. used the button on the dial where you enter speed into TDC? If so, that was the mistake. They are rarely accurate, basically disregard that feature. I use them sometimes to check my solution, especially when I have map contacts disabled, but they are nearly always off. If have map contacts, trust your markings before their solution. This is due to a inherent SH 4 issue with the stadimeter and proper mast heights on ships. TMO fixed it to some degree, way better than was in stock but can only do so much. OTC corrected it, is a great mod, but not compatible with my TMO update, and in my opinion, it takes away from the sim, makes things too easy, for me.

Remember anything 12 knots or faster will be reported as "fast /high speed" Did you use the crewman to tell you the speed? Convoys really move at that speed since not all ships can keep up. Plus, they had long journeys had to save fuel. One exception is once alerted and some of the ships go into "every man for himself mode" , they will dart around , making maneuvers, temp increases in speed, making them more difficult to attack. When among them on surface at night and this happens, can get hairy, nothing like a 10000 ton tanker or troopship trying to run your sub over at 18 knots. lol



At the start of the war, there was no policy on the number of patrols, so the first "batch" of skippers made quite a few, six or seven in some cases before relieved, promoted etc. COMSUBPAC's policy was five consecutive patrols in command as the limit, few to no exceptions. The loss of "Mush" Morton and Wahoo had a lot of to do with strict enforcement of the policy for subpac boats. Morton was tired and not disparaging him, as he was a great submariner and innovator, but have read he had become somewhat contemptuous of enemy ASW, perhaps even reckless. Dealey and Harder kind of the same thing, were lost on the sixth patrol of Harder. Dealey was kind of wild man anyways lol, always looking to hunt destroyers. Fluckey in the Barb was one of the few who got another patrol, but it was also after a break stateside for refit. Pretty sure, that for the most part other sub commands followed suit.

Now, quite a few of the skippers from 42- 43 were sent back home to new construction, to commission a new boat and made it back to the war zone, often serving another five patrols. Lawson Ramage is one of them, he commanded the Trout earlier in war, was sent home and put in command of the new Balao Class USS Parche and was back in action summer 1944 in some legendary actions such as that of 31 July 1944, see "Ramages Rampage."

Some others were promoted a end of their tours and ended up in staff billets, or training commands. Would received command later in war, or in some cases those promoted to Captain would be sent to see to command a Coordinated Attack Group (Wolfpack) but was not in command of the a actual boat, just hitched a ride aboard one as his "flagship". They eventually stopped this practice for most part, finding it worked better to allowed senior skipper in the pack to have tactical command of the group.

Some early mid war skippers who found themselves in staff and training billets after their command tours ended, and promoted to Captain would end up in command for one or two patrols of a boat, kind of holding the seat until a more permanent CO. This also allowed them to get recent combat experience. Some were successful as they adapted well, some were not, as when they returned in 1944/1945, it was a different submarine war than the one they had fought, and did not adapt well to the night tactics of running on surface etc.


In SH 4, you can keep going as long as are maintain a minimum rating for success on patrols. Achieving the assign goals is the main part, of course sinking ships is important as well. I believe the limit for unsuccessful patrols is 3 in which will be relieved. Only had this happen once, it was due to bugs not counting tonnage sunk after loaded up a saved game in testing . My fault for adding/removing mods too often lol , believe it corrupted the file. Anyways, it counted me as having sunk just 2000 tons in three patrols, which would not end a career, but it also counted me as not having achieved objectives such as completing patrol/time on station etc. After third "bad" patrol, I was relieved, game over.


Now, in the stock game and most mods, player is promoted way too fast so I changed this. You will make Commander at six good patrols with I believe it is 180 days time in game , Captain after 20 patrols, which most players won't do 20 patrols in one career unless having some really short patrols/running around on auto target etc. Although I will likely raise that limited


Early war I will usually keep skipper longer, but mid to late war, I typically play 5-6 patrols and then that is it. I now keep the same boat to see if boat can make it to end of war, just edit the careertrack files, rename the skipper, clear his tonnage and medals.. So keep the same boat and crew, but new skipper. I do not accept offers of new commands because number one they often come too early, also you get a new boat but keep same crew lol. That happened twice I am aware of. The new Sealion was commisioned, many of the Sealions crew that was sunk in 1941 at Cavite were assigned (if alive or available) and the Darter (ran aground in October 1944 off Philippines while pursuing a damaged cruiser, crew rescued, boat scuttled. That mission is in the mod btw) , most her crew went to new construction and made up the crew of that boat. The successes stay in the logbook though, which is cool. So you can see ships sunk done throughout however many patrols.

I do wish could have the option to go to new construction, for a break, then back to see but not possible to make happen it seems.

[Bubblehead1980]

TMO Update BH V2.0(in testing, soon to be released)
Donation Narwhal mod
Sixth patrol of USS Nautilus 13 December 1942- 26 February 1943.
Patrol East of Bougainville
Special Mission- Rescue of civilians at Teop
Patrol in Truk-Rabaul shipping lanes
Bombardment of Woelai and Fais Islands.


Fun and challenging patrol. I was happy to see special mission worked as designed, mostly. Ran into a Chidori escort for first time in this career, nearly ended the boat.

Narrative of patrol and screenshots below.


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=107786

[Rhodes]

I see, thanks! I'm now going to China sea, after dropping marines in Okinawa, Fev. 44.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

I see, thanks! I'm now going to China sea, after dropping marines in Okinawa, Fev. 44.

Oh you should find plenty of targets in East China Sea, lots of night surface attack opportunities. I did a lot of work on traffic in all years of the war but 1944 is where V 1.0 of TMO Update truly shines, the pace increases on patrol, a lot of action, reflects history as 1944 was a banner year for US submarines in the Pacific, year they really wiped out the Japanese merchant marine and Navy. In the mod...torpedoes are finally reliable{overall} ..plenty of convoys running, escorts are not pushovers for most part, type 2 depth charge is available...and can make realistic night surface attacks...enjoy

Okinawa? ah yes lol one of those silly out of place special missions (1944) I have removed from the next version, replaced with more plausible ones. Use caution around Okinawa and the Ryukus...*intel* indicates the waters are heavily mined to control surface and sub surface traffic.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Use caution around Okinawa and the Ryukus...*intel* indicates the waters are heavily mined to control surface and sub surface traffic.

yes, i can confirm that rumor/intel.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

yes, i can confirm that rumor/intel.

Did you hit one of them? lol

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Did you hit one of them? lol

ah...no...but i had my own intel.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

ah...no...but i had my own intel.

lol that is true

[Bubblehead1980]

Testing out V 2.0 campaign, orders to landing US Army scouts in advance of invasion of Attu on 11 May 1943 (real mission Nautilus and Narwhal conducted, landing scouts five hours before scheduled landing of main forces) . Have to leave Pearl, stop at Dutch Harbor to "pick up" the scouts. Sailed into Dutch Harbor, really beautiful at dawn (will post screen shots when patrol is over).

Of course crew looks weird with non winter clothing on lol something hope to solve in this version, its on the list.

Anyways...I admittedly did not spend a lot of time testing the Alaska campaign with S boats. Plan to add fleetboat orders since they made quite a few patrols in 1942 there, operated out of Dutch Harbor temporarily...one (USS Grunion) was lost in the area. Growler knocked out three destroyers off Kiska (or Attu, cant recall which one atm)


So if you have played around in Alaskan theater, tell me about your experiences. I know the patrol orders need to be fixed, they will bein next version. Spot icebergs? I added quick a few


I plan to tweak the traffic before next release. I have the Battle of Komandorski Islands scripted pretty well and with the new settings, the cruisers engage at longer ranges, 10000-12000 yards, so get a more realistic battle vs the point blank battles used to always have.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Oh you should find plenty of targets in East China Sea, lots of night surface attack opportunities. I did a lot of work on traffic in all years of the war but 1944 is where V 1.0 of TMO Update truly shines, the pace increases on patrol, a lot of action, reflects history as 1944 was a banner year for US submarines in the Pacific, year they really wiped out the Japanese merchant marine and Navy. In the mod...torpedoes are finally reliable{overall} ..plenty of convoys running, escorts are not pushovers for most part, type 2 depth charge is available...and can make realistic night surface attacks...enjoy

Okinawa? ah yes lol one of those silly out of place special missions (1944) I have removed from the next version, replaced with more plausible ones. Use caution around Okinawa and the Ryukus...*intel* indicates the waters are heavily mined to control surface and sub surface traffic.

Indeed. Actually the patrol area is the yellow sea, but going from Okinawa to there I stumble at a convoy, 2 rows, 4 ships each and just 2 escorts. Lovely...



Yes, i noticed that the area was very sweat, when I saw a costal battery using me has target pratice... My first mission to deliver marines to that island, it was overcast, no visibilty but calm seas. I went there and come out with no enemy detected. This time was a great pacific night and ...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Indeed. Actually the patrol area is the yellow sea, but going from Okinawa to there I stumble at a convoy, 2 rows, 4 ships each and just 2 escorts. Lovely...



Yes, i noticed that the area was very sweat, when I saw a costal battery using me has target pratice... My first mission to deliver marines to that island, it was overcast, no visibility but calm seas. I went there and come out with no enemy detected. This time was a great pacific night and ...

Ouch. I take it no hits by the coastal battery? They will fire at longer ranges now but not as accurate. The sniper like fire always bugged me, still a threat.

Nice! On the convoy. Let us know how that one goes. I smell a possible night surface attack coming.

[Bubblehead1980]

Last night did not really have time to run a normal patrol, get one started, but
wanted to test a special mission I've added to the campaign for V2.0, landing Army Scouts on Attu ahead of the main invasion forces. Figured it'd be pretty simple, come back to port.

Well, after picking up the scouts, dropping them on schedule at Attu, 11 May 0100, went west for a quick trip to Northern Kurils, see if could find a ship to sink, perhaps bombard Matsuwa or Paramushiru with Nautilus's six inch deck guns. I stumbled across a convoy, still heading east, possibly unaware of the mornings invasion. Next day, found another heading west, likely already at sea when invasion occurred. Turned into a busy, action packed, frustrating patrol in
which all twenty torpedoes were fired within 150 NM of Attu, never made it to the Kurils, had to turn home since all torpedoes expended and batteries were damaged, would not recharge beyond 80 percent of so.

This short test turned into several hours game time lol

Brief patrol report and some screenshots at link below.


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=107786

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Ouch. I take it no hits by the coastal battery? They will fire at longer ranges now but not as accurate. The sniper like fire always bugged me, still a threat.

Nice! On the convoy. Let us know how that one goes. I smell a possible night surface attack coming.

It come very close to comfort... but no hit.

Indeed, manage to get the speed right, so 3 hits with my bow tubes, one merchant dead in the water (latter sink). I was already turning to use the aft tubes and with them, manage also 2 hits in another ship, then I escaped, since they were already shooting at me.

I did a parallel course with convoy, when reloading, the ships did do such zig zags, and cutting the other ship route, almost like dui...
I attacked again, after a few hours, the zig zag was more slower and manage to sink another ship, miss my type 18 torpedos again.



After the yellow sea with out any ships besides a junk ship, COMSUBPAC send me to area 7, but to avoid Bungo...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

It come very close to comfort... but no hit.

Indeed, manage to get the speed right, so 3 hits with my bow tubes, one merchant dead in the water (latter sink). I was already turning to use the aft tubes and with them, manage also 2 hits in another ship, then I escaped, since they were already shooting at me.

I did a parallel course with convoy, when reloading, the ships did do such zig zags, and cutting the other ship route, almost like dui...
I attacked again, after a few hours, the zig zag was more slower and manage to sink another ship, miss my type 18 torpedos again.



After the yellow sea with out any ships besides a junk ship, COMSUBPAC send me to area 7, but to avoid Bungo...

Well done


What month/day are you? Your misses with MK 18 may be due to torpedo malfunctions if before Jan 1 1944. The initial MK 18's had a lot of problems, not so much with duds as they used a different exploder (MK 8) which had no exploder issues, but did have depth control issues, as well as gyro and battery issues, quite a few "cold shots" where the fish was ejected from the tube but batteries did not provide the power required for the run. Of course circular runs were a problem as well.

In TMO the MK 18 has a high chance to malfunction until Jan 1 1944. This simulates the introduction of the refined model after initial introduction in mid 1943.

MK 18 maintains a higher probability of circular ran throughout the war, as the real life torpedo did, but low chance of running deeper than set.