[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Those Uboat habits die hard

Type 2 charges(IJN started using in late 1943) sink faster and pack a real punch. Can be quite a surprise when first encounter them.

If you get into later war, you will be forced to operate in shallows if want to sink anything. Late 1944 traffic shifts to coastal waters as it really did. Provides excellent opportunities for night surface attacks though. Sometimes have to just submerge as well . Decoys are available then and are helpful.

Yeah, which is why I'm... trying... to overcome those... habits of skippering that I garnered with skippering U-boats. Same situation in operating a sub, but... radically different tactics used in commanding them. Even though, the U.S. arm, basically followed what the Kaleuns were doing with unrestricted sub warfare.... but, did a vastly better job at it.

Of course, with the way the IJN responded by not forming up convoys until well after the skippers had definitively put the merchie fleet, in the hurt locker... even after having the snafu of duds & premature dets from torps... all because the Bureau of Ordnance, couldn't get their heads outta their aft quarters, & listen to the skippers screams of frustration... instead, blaming them for their woes with torps. The vast difference between the whole issue with torps was... the Higher ups on the German side, did listen to their skippers & did manage to work out most of the kinks on their torps... of course, they still had issues but those were likely due to sabotage with their work force, rather than defects in the workings & plans for them.

Any who... may see of setting up a later on career so as to be able to test bed the 95's... Got plenty of room to maneuver, as it were. space wise.



M. M.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Where on the Japanese coast? Date/Time? Coordinates ?(if you have them) Area?


Another possibility, is a submerged AI submarine torpedoed you. I was recently hit by one for the first time. Night time on surface, no warning. Since you were submerged , I find it more likely to be a mine but if you were shallow enough, which I presume you were since about to surface, AI sub could have detected you.

When I get home after work I will play a little, so I can provide the information more precise. By memory, I was coming north from Sendai, was near that cape before Tokyo area. December 1943. 21h, I think.

I was at 150ft, begging to go to periscope depth. I think it was more a mine than enemy torpedo.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

So, to cut the story short, I had to go bellow 660 ft, sinking in silent running to escape. When doing the cat and mouse game, one charge did got to close and damage my engine compartment. Medium damage but manageable.

this post is more for BH than Rhodes, who posed an interesting topic:

can the hydrophone/sonar stack detect a boat at 660 feet?
are there limits to the detection? power? scope?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

When I get home after work I will play a little, so I can provide the information more precise. By memory, I was coming north from Sendai, was near that cape before Tokyo area. December 1943. 21h, I think.

I was at 150ft, begging to go to periscope depth. I think it was more a mine than enemy torpedo.

Yep, you hit a mine lol There are minefields in that area (native to TMO, did not place them there myself) but those waters from what I read, were mined in Fall 1943. I've been killed in that area as well before.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Yep, you hit a mine lol There are minefields in that area (native to TMO, did not place them there myself) but those waters from what I read, were mined in Fall 1943. I've been killed in that area as well before.

on the topic of mines, yes, you have (lol) overdone yourself with mine fields.
i found myself printing mine field maps using the ME just so i could keep track. call it intel from previous missions of other boats.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

this post is more for BH than Rhodes, who posed an interesting topic:

can the hydrophone/sonar stack detect a boat at 660 feet?
are there limits to the detection? power? scope?

I do not believe they can detect you at that depth if did not have previous contact, unless making a lot of noise, but they can track you. Default TMO (believe stock as well) the sensors max depth is -300 meters or 984 feet, which of course no sub in the sim (unless modified) can go that deep.

Now, I have noticed in testing that AI active sonar, especially if player sub is below a thermal layer tends to lose its effectiveness when player sub is at 620-650+ feet. They will still ping but do not, in most cases appear able to keep accurate track. I noticed when running silent at 650 feet their attacks tend to be off, can't get exact location. Problem comes when player is that deep and has to put on standard speed (at minimum) to maintain any type of depth, the RPM's player sub generates goes above 100, AI hears this noise, which confirms a sub is down there and starts pinging of course and will make its DC run, continue tracking. Of course can stop a few minutes and drift down but have to start back up. Well, this "resets" the timer for the AI, as AI has to go X amount of time without having what I will dub a "positive" contact before they give up.

Other factors include skill level of the escort(inTMO they are all set to Veteran, a few to Elite. Obviously, the Elite will have a easier time) , time period of the war, which reflects if they have the advanced sonar/hydrophone, sea state (calm seas vs heavy), thermal layer presence and depth, and location on earth in relation to the equator. Of course, settings in the sim.cfg also player a factor.


When am finished testing on this patrol, I will make some sensor changes and test them out to see if can provide more balance for such depths. Just do not want a situation where all player has to do is go to X depth and is home free, because that makes the sim too easy but also not reflective of reality, given the accounts of the Billfish, O Kane's account on the TANG off Truk and others of being tracked and attacked when submerged at 600+ feet.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

on the topic of mines, yes, you have (lol) overdone yourself with mine fields.
i found myself printing mine field maps using the ME just so i could keep track. call it intel from previous missions of other boats.

Haha I really did not add that many, I reworked the fields and removed quite a few actually and even more of the submerged mines in upcoming release. What I did do is add the surfaced mines to certain areas to deny use in transit, and harbor, bay entrances etc. I did withhold in many cases because felt it would be unfair to player since AI lookouts do not spot them (as often happened in real life). I take it you hit a surfaced mine? lol Where? When?

I have considered in next release adding occasional intel messages via radio traffic regarding minefields as they did receive such intel now and then, have some research to do on the extent and frequency of those messages.


Would you mind sending me a copy of the map you made? Could include it as intel in next release, if you do not mind of course.

[EddieLyons]

I have a question about the behaviour of submerged AI subs.

Do they surface and dive like the player has to?

I ask because I have been tracking a submerged contact for over 20 hours, and there's no sign of it surfacing.

I made a hydrophone contact less than a day out of Pearl, en route to Wake Island. This was after dark on 9 Dec 1941, so I closed to try to make an identification - it was a single contact. But, after getting within range I was unable to detect it visually, so I submerged and manoeuvred to get in its baffles. I managed to do that seemingly undetected, and have been tracking it ever since - submerged.

Overall, it appears to be behaving as you would expect a Japanese sub to do, generally trending NNE between Oahu and Kauai, hunting for targets. But, without being able to make a positive ID as long as it remains submerged, I'm stuck, with my battery running down and CO2 building up. Do battery depletion and CO2 have any bearing on AI subs? Do they even need to surface? Am I just wasting my time tracking such a target, since I can't determine whether it's friend or foe?



To clarify, I'm in TMO Bubblehead Update with RSRDC.

[Bubblehead1980]

[QUOTE=EddieLyons;2791439]I have a question about the behaviour of submerged AI subs.

Do they surface and dive like the player has to?

I ask because I have been tracking a submerged contact for over 20 hours, and there's no sign of it surfacing.

I made a hydrophone contact less than a day out of Pearl, en route to Wake Island. This was after dark on 9 Dec 1941, so I closed to try to make an identification - it was a single contact. But, after getting within range I was unable to detect it visually, so I submerged and manoeuvred to get in its baffles. I managed to do that seemingly undetected, and have been tracking it ever since - submerged.

Overall, it appears to be behaving as you would expect a Japanese sub to do, generally trending NNE between Oahu and Kauai, hunting for targets. But, without being able to make a positive ID as long as it remains submerged, I'm stuck, with my battery running down and CO2 building up. Do battery depletion and CO2 have any bearing on AI subs? Do they even need to surface? Am I just wasting my time tracking such a target, since I can't determine whether it's friend or foe?



To clarify, I'm in TMO Bubblehead Update with RSRDC.[/QUOTE/]



No, the AI subs do not dive, surfce, or have to worry about battery power, oxygen etc.

Unfortunately, that is beyond capability of modders at this time. The submerged AI subs as well as surfaced AI subs will hit their last waypoint and "delete", which simulates diving. I've tracked a surfaced AI sub, been just about ready to fire and then it disappeared in front of me i.e. hit its last waypoint, it "submerged". Then hour or so later, ran into surface AI sub again, the sub respawned at a different location, to simulate sub surfacing after diving.

Attacking submerged AI subs is difficult, as it was difficult in WW II. In later war when have the "Cutie" homing torpedo, have somewhat of a chance. . PBY's in area will likely find the enemy sub at some point. I saw that recently outside of Midway in 1942, PBY depth charging submerged IJN sub, sunk it.

Best advice to you is to break off pursuit and head away toward your objective. AI subs can and will torpedo you. I was recently sunk by a AI sub for first time in campaign, on my first patrol out of Pearl Harbor in Dec 1941, prob 150 miles SW. Torpedo me on the surface at night. Possibly same sub you detected.


HEADS UP......


RSRD is NOT compatible with TMO Update BH . This will "break" the mod, including RSRD and eventually cause you major issues if has not already. Plus, it overwrites the new campaign in TMO, which is based on RSRD...has historical contacts, historic battles etc. With RSRD , you will lose most of roster of new ships with numerous ships, updates etc. RSRD is great mod, but it has not been updated in a rather long time, missing a lot of ships etc present in TMO Update. I believe I covered this in the README, if I did not, I apologize.

[EddieLyons]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Best advice to you is to break off pursuit and head away toward your objective. AI subs can and will torpedo you. I was recently sunk by a AI sub for first time in campaign, on my first patrol out of Pearl Harbor in Dec 1941, prob 150 miles SW. Torpedo me on the surface at night. Possibly same sub you detected.

Aye, aye, Cap'n. Breaking contact!

It's probably not been a complete waste of time tracking an essentially unattackable target. It's tested the submerged endurance of my Porpoise-class boat (USS Perch, SS 176) pretty much to the limit - down to 16% on battery, and up to 57/100 on CO2) and worked out the crew, so that's of benefit, at least!

So, time to resume my course towards Wake and the Marianas.

[clayton]

Does Vicker’s mods work with TMO? I’m looking for an AI break from FOTRS. I noticed another player on YouTube getting surprised with short-range SD callouts. Do first detection callouts vary with TMO? You play this game so much it very quickly becomes long range detection—dive—repeat.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by clayton

Does Vicker’s mods work with TMO? I’m looking for an AI break from FOTRS. I noticed another player on YouTube getting short-range SD callouts. Do first detection callouts vary with TMO? You play this game so much it very quickly becomes long range detection—dive—repeat.

Can tell you, the older subskins in 4k, work alright... & the battleflags one does, as well... just make sure to not use the portion of it that is for interiors... as that won't... not at this time, last I heard, vickers, was looking at adding to the interiors the ability to use them, with TMO... just no clear on when that would become available for TMO, as it now stands... what with Bubblehead1980's revamping of it.

Do know & appreciate that it takes a great deal of work, doing mods... having attempted a couple Myself... but, those attempts, were in the sound stage section... not the nitty gritty down in the mud, 3 D modeling or .dat files, or other areas in that same neck of the woods...

I am fairly confident of tinkering about in the .cfg areas... with moderate confidence... usually...

Oh, & stay away from the new released version of Sealife, for SH4... that 1 for FotRS... that won't work with TMO... can use the older version... the updated one, just prior to FotRS v1.7 version... but no further.

Hope that helps...



M. M.

[clayton]

“Do know & appreciate that it takes a great deal of work, doing mods...”

The dedicated work by Subsim and the modding community is what saved this and the rest of the silent hunter series, and I appreciate the advice on Vicker’s mods—I too am waiting patiently for his excellent work, but I’m looking for an AI change and I noticed the player getting jumped by an aircraft and the first callout was short range.

Starting at 9:00…



Did he ignore the other call-outs for effect, had a slow dive, or is he playing with a mod where the aircraft always auto bomb the sub (like back in the day)? When I play using FOTRS, all SD callouts start at long range. I wanted to know if there is something different out there.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by clayton

Does Vicker’s mods work with TMO? I’m looking for an AI break from FOTRS. I noticed another player on YouTube getting surprised with short-range SD callouts. Do first detection callouts vary with TMO? You play this game so much it very quickly becomes long range detection—dive—repeat.

No, Vickers03''s interiors do not work with TMO at this time, causes CTD and other issues when others have tried. There is, down the pike TMO version coming from what was told. Some of his other excellent mods, such as EAX sound does. Make sure have proper version listed in the README. Far as of his others, I am not sure. Will have to ask about a specific mod on here, others may know.



The latest version of TMO is TMO 2.5 Update BH. The original TMO is quite dated as the creator has not been active in the community for some time.


In the TMO Update, I reduced aircraft presence heavily. That is a major different between current TMO and FOTRS. I removed a lot of airbases because they overlapped, so players were dealing redundant coverage. If the way the game spawn planes was not so asinine, would be okay but it is what it is, so made the change.

Now, when close to a air base in appropriate areas, will get more air contacts...think Tokyo area, Luzon Straits etc. I feel have found a realistic balance in the TMO Update.


TMO planes have a reputation for being tough and they are, especially later in war when they get the sensor simulating MAD, can see player sub submerged fairly deep.

SD detection range depends on some factors....which mod (SD or Improved SD) , the crewmember assigned to radar experience level...i.e. more skilled crew member will detect at further range, weather, altitude and speed of aircraft, bearing of the plane, proximity to land..mountain interfere etc.


The early war SD set...typical detection range is 6-8 NM depending on combo of the factors listed above. Patrol I just ended in July 1942...en route back home from Area 4A...SD radar (not improved model)....SD did not detect a MAVIS from Marcus Island, lookouts spotted it at about 8000 yards. I was in Narwhal Class, barely had time to get under. Fortunately, the fog seemed to prevent the plane from spotting us and plane was on N/S course and I was heading East...so range remained steady. That was a unusual example, 8/10 times will get bombed in that situation. Like I said, a lot of factors.


As war goes on, planes get tougher as skill levels go up, certain planes get radar( not super radar though lol, its reasonable).


Give TMO 2.5 BH a try, let me know what you think

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Would you mind sending me a copy of the map you made? Could include it as intel in next release, if you do not mind of course.

the maps are just screen shots from the Mission Editor.
Mostly between southern Kyushu and Formosa where you blocked off all of the transits routes between the Pacific and the East China Sea.