Real Nav

Fidgety · 07-14-19, 03:27 PM

Can anyone post a link please to a good tutorial on using star charts and sextant please.
I have read a couple of tutorials so far and they just explained dead reckoning, which is quite obvious really.
I have spent quite a few hours staring at the star charts provided in game and cant quite seem to grasp them. I can recognize star formations, well some of them, but when looking at the chart I cant figure out where on the chart the human eyes are. Its hard to explain but when I view the chart its almost as if I should be looking from the other side of the paper, like its all been inverted in a photo shop program.
My best guess at the sextant is to aim it at horizon then move slider to north star. When doing this, I do get something close but Im not sure im actually aiming at the right star. Aiming north is obvious, but sometimes at night there are multiple stars due north.
Seems strange the game doesnt make the north star brighter than all the others. I remember at school they said the north star was always brighter than the rest.

Edit/Update

I have found this tutorial on the berbsters tutorial list > https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=206103

Using this I am at least good to go and learn from it and will be good to take readings during the day. I am looking for a tutorial similar to this explaining how star charts are used. If anyone can help that would be great as I cant find anything. If nothing turns up I have bookmarked a couple of astronomy websites but having a skim read Im well out of my depth on these websites.

Fidgety · 07-15-19, 04:05 PM

Never mind, I didnt notice the documentation that came with TWOS. After reading, I think I can figure it out myself.

Fidgety · 07-15-19, 11:28 PM

Im just about to start a new career and Im going to see how it goes not using the navigator. I intend to modify the navigators minimun threshold for making a mistake to something really high to make him useless and see how I get on.
I imagine I am going to spend alot of time reading while in the sub.

One question I have is this, How realistic is the find distance to nearest radio beacon option on the radio operators buttons?
Did the captains really have access to this technology or is it unrealistic?
I dont want to use it if they couldnt do this during the war.

A few days ago when returning to Kiel, it was really foggy and I was struggling to find the entrance to the port. After clicking the button for finding the radio beacon I instantly knew which direction to go. If anyone has knowledge on this please let me know. I shall not be using it untill I get confirmation on here.

XenonSurf · 07-16-19, 04:00 AM

The navigation error is already contained in your contact report from Captain's Log, no need to make additional settings, it's as difficult as it gets possibly.

Fidgety · 07-16-19, 04:08 AM

Yes but maybe my error threshold is going to be higher than the navigators. If I'm making bigger errors than the max of 8km the navigator does, then when I reload into a game and the game auto places a celestial fix then I am getting help above what I want.
I might just give the navigator a minimun time of say 5 years to calculate the position, that way he can keep himself busy and not interfere with my navigating.

XenonSurf · 07-16-19, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidgety

Yes but maybe my error threshold is going to be higher than the navigators. If I'm making bigger errors than the max of 8km the navigator does, then when I reload into a game and the game auto places a celestial fix then I am getting help above what I want.
I might just give the navigator a minimun time of say 5 years to calculate the position, that way he can keep himself busy and not interfere with my navigating.

I don't know these finesses for RN, but if you want harder difficulty, then first take away all promo points from your crew to diminish their competence. You need to edit the savegame files accordingly. AFAIK the only thing a navigator does in RN is to plot your position on the map, and else just don't use him, don't use other crew members except maybe the sonar guy...
Another way is to give the crew very low morale points so they are about to mutiny... They shouldn't follow your orders and it will only be up to you. I don't know if this works though.

Good luck

Fidgety · 07-16-19, 04:25 AM

I dont think you realize how fasinating it is navigating using the sextant with star charts and sun almanacs. Its given me a completely new subject to learn and made the game feel completely new to me again.
Its not about making the game harder, I want to simulate and learn RN more than just clicking a button on the navigators tab.

Sean C · 07-16-19, 04:50 AM

If you'd like to learn more about real celestial navigation, I'd be happy to help.

XenonSurf · 07-16-19, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidgety

I dont think you realize how fasinating it is navigating using the sextant with star charts and sun almanacs. Its given me a completely new subject to learn and made the game feel completely new to me again.
Its not about making the game harder, I want to simulate and learn RN more than just clicking a button on the navigators tab.

Sorry, I didn't mean 'harder difficulty' but 'Do-it-Yourself' (which for me is the same btw). Just don't use the crew, I think this is possible. Use the stars, sextant, 4-bearing method etc. There are a lot of special plotting and attacking tools in the UI, learn to use them, there are some good videos around. There are even some special maps included with instructions, hit E and load the special maps (note that you can scroll the list to make everything visible and selectable!)

There are also tons of useful docs inside the TWoS folders, look in the folder 'Other Readme Files and Docs'.

Fidgety · 07-16-19, 08:00 AM

If you'd like to learn more about real celestial navigation, I'd be happy to help.

OK I have something thats bugging me and I cant figure it out yet from 3 websites I have been to.

On this tutorial > https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=206103

first we need to find Zenith Distance = 90 - 42.54 we convert the 90 degree to 89.60 - 42.54 = 47.06 is the Zenith Distance

From everything I have read so far, the zenith distance is always 90 degrees minus the altitude angle of the celestial object you measure. I cannot figure out why in this tutorial he converts the 90 to 89.60 before subtracting the altitude angle.

Id also love my question answering in previous post about the radio beacon technology if you know anything about that.

One other thing I'd like to know is when you are logging when the sunrise occurs, do you take the time that the sun first peaks above the horizon or do you go from when the sun has fully past the horizon line? I tried logging the time earlier but from the time it first peaked above horizon to being fully visable took roughly 1 hour and that messed me up from not knowing if I should use GMT or local time. I was in +1 time zone so it was just unfortunate. If I was in +4 or +5 I coulod have figured it out.

vdr1981 · 07-16-19, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidgety

One question I have is this, How realistic is the find distance to nearest radio beacon option on the radio operators buttons?
Did the captains really have access to this technology or is it unrealistic?
I dont want to use it if they couldnt do this during the war.

A few days ago when returning to Kiel, it was really foggy and I was struggling to find the entrance to the port. After clicking the button for finding the radio beacon I instantly knew which direction to go. If anyone has knowledge on this please let me know. I shall not be using it untill I get confirmation on here.

It's quite realistic I'd say because we know that naval vessels uses NDBs for navigation during the WW2. U-Boats also had DF radio equipment so I decided to implement this small and unique feature in TWoS.

https://uboat.net/articles/id/51

To hide hide navigation marks completely, use the appropriate option in OFEV...Note that the first initial mark when you load the game can not be hidden. That's now SH5 rel nav works.

Fidgety · 07-16-19, 10:15 AM

To hide hide navigation marks completely, use the appropriate option in OFEV...Note that the first initial mark when you load the game can not be hidden. That's now SH5 rel nav works.

Yeah I already found that option when looking to neuter the nav man, and your right I couldnt stop the initial map marking after a save.

Its such a shame all my super marks and nav marks I place get lost after reloading a save. Put such effort into them and poof, they dissapear.

vdr1981 · 07-16-19, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidgety

Its such a shame all my super marks and nav marks I place get lost after reloading a save. Put such effort into them and poof, they dissapear.

Why don't you save them than and load again later??

Fidgety · 07-16-19, 01:07 PM

Why don't you save them than and load again later??

Is that possible? I havent noticed anyway to do that.

vdr1981 · 07-16-19, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidgety

Why don't you save them than and load again later??

Is that possible? I havent noticed anyway to do that.

Of course...Ship Journal function. You'll find save/open journal buttons there...

07-14-19, 03:27 PM	#1
Fidgety Mate Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: AN72 Posts: 55 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Real Nav Can anyone post a link please to a good tutorial on using star charts and sextant please. I have read a couple of tutorials so far and they just explained dead reckoning, which is quite obvious really. I have spent quite a few hours staring at the star charts provided in game and cant quite seem to grasp them. I can recognize star formations, well some of them, but when looking at the chart I cant figure out where on the chart the human eyes are. Its hard to explain but when I view the chart its almost as if I should be looking from the other side of the paper, like its all been inverted in a photo shop program. My best guess at the sextant is to aim it at horizon then move slider to north star. When doing this, I do get something close but Im not sure im actually aiming at the right star. Aiming north is obvious, but sometimes at night there are multiple stars due north. Seems strange the game doesnt make the north star brighter than all the others. I remember at school they said the north star was always brighter than the rest. Edit/Update I have found this tutorial on the berbsters tutorial list > https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=206103 Using this I am at least good to go and learn from it and will be good to take readings during the day. I am looking for a tutorial similar to this explaining how star charts are used. If anyone can help that would be great as I cant find anything. If nothing turns up I have bookmarked a couple of astronomy websites but having a skim read Im well out of my depth on these websites. Last edited by Fidgety; 07-15-19 at 04:05 PM.

07-16-19, 04:50 AM	#8
Sean C Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 904 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 2	If you'd like to learn more about real celestial navigation, I'd be happy to help. __________________ If you have a question about celestial navigation ... ask me! Celestial Navigation Spreadsheet

07-16-19, 08:00 AM	#10
Fidgety Mate Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: AN72 Posts: 55 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	If you'd like to learn more about real celestial navigation, I'd be happy to help. OK I have something thats bugging me and I cant figure it out yet from 3 websites I have been to. On this tutorial > https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=206103 first we need to find Zenith Distance = 90 - 42.54 we convert the 90 degree to 89.60 - 42.54 = 47.06 is the Zenith Distance From everything I have read so far, the zenith distance is always 90 degrees minus the altitude angle of the celestial object you measure. I cannot figure out why in this tutorial he converts the 90 to 89.60 before subtracting the altitude angle. Id also love my question answering in previous post about the radio beacon technology if you know anything about that. One other thing I'd like to know is when you are logging when the sunrise occurs, do you take the time that the sun first peaks above the horizon or do you go from when the sun has fully past the horizon line? I tried logging the time earlier but from the time it first peaked above horizon to being fully visable took roughly 1 hour and that messed me up from not knowing if I should use GMT or local time. I was in +1 time zone so it was just unfortunate. If I was in +4 or +5 I coulod have figured it out. Last edited by Fidgety; 07-16-19 at 08:09 AM.

07-15-19, 04:05 PM	#2
Fidgety Mate Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: AN72 Posts: 55 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Never mind, I didnt notice the documentation that came with TWOS. After reading, I think I can figure it out myself.

07-15-19, 11:28 PM	#3
Fidgety Mate Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: AN72 Posts: 55 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Im just about to start a new career and Im going to see how it goes not using the navigator. I intend to modify the navigators minimun threshold for making a mistake to something really high to make him useless and see how I get on. I imagine I am going to spend alot of time reading while in the sub. One question I have is this, How realistic is the find distance to nearest radio beacon option on the radio operators buttons? Did the captains really have access to this technology or is it unrealistic? I dont want to use it if they couldnt do this during the war. A few days ago when returning to Kiel, it was really foggy and I was struggling to find the entrance to the port. After clicking the button for finding the radio beacon I instantly knew which direction to go. If anyone has knowledge on this please let me know. I shall not be using it untill I get confirmation on here.

07-16-19, 04:00 AM	#4
XenonSurf Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany, Italy Posts: 1,703 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 4	The navigation error is already contained in your contact report from Captain's Log, no need to make additional settings, it's as difficult as it gets possibly.

07-16-19, 04:08 AM	#5
Fidgety Mate Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: AN72 Posts: 55 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Yes but maybe my error threshold is going to be higher than the navigators. If I'm making bigger errors than the max of 8km the navigator does, then when I reload into a game and the game auto places a celestial fix then I am getting help above what I want. I might just give the navigator a minimun time of say 5 years to calculate the position, that way he can keep himself busy and not interfere with my navigating.

07-16-19, 04:25 AM	#7
Fidgety Mate Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: AN72 Posts: 55 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	I dont think you realize how fasinating it is navigating using the sextant with star charts and sun almanacs. Its given me a completely new subject to learn and made the game feel completely new to me again. Its not about making the game harder, I want to simulate and learn RN more than just clicking a button on the navigators tab.

07-16-19, 10:15 AM	#12
Fidgety Mate Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: AN72 Posts: 55 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	To hide hide navigation marks completely, use the appropriate option in OFEV...Note that the first initial mark when you load the game can not be hidden. That's now SH5 rel nav works. Yeah I already found that option when looking to neuter the nav man, and your right I couldnt stop the initial map marking after a save. Its such a shame all my super marks and nav marks I place get lost after reloading a save. Put such effort into them and poof, they dissapear.

07-16-19, 01:07 PM	#14
Fidgety Mate Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: AN72 Posts: 55 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Why don't you save them than and load again later?? Is that possible? I havent noticed anyway to do that.