Curiosity

[niceguy]

I have few questions for weterans.
Vanilla 1.5

1. When I am aiming to the ship using a hydrophone with a specyfic direction and asking my crew for a report, they tells me about another ship that is 40 degrees next to it and there are no other ships in that direction. It's a bug?

2. How to estimate (set) the enemy convoy course without map update?
There is no problem with a single target when I'm using hydro and sonar but when there is more ships there then I have a problem with hydrophone that I mentioned before.

3. Where is torpedo best aimed? Directly into the middle with hope for breaking the construction?
It is sense for hiting the same place many times? Does the draft of the torpedo change enything? If the keel is rounded, does it affect the torpedo reflection?

4. Are there other methods for manual targeting than TDC + mast height or Dick O'Kane method?

5. How effective are passive acoustic torpedoes? Are they the best?

6. Does the enemy use torpedoes against you? If he does, how to deal with it, exactly with acustics?

7. Is it true that the enemy can not detect you using radar before 1943?

8. When I use sonar, I get wrong measurement.
I'm aiming at specific direction, pinging the battleship several times, turning off the engines and being underwater then I get 3500 yd measurement. If I use stadimeter or deck gun, the distance is 6,500-7,000 yd and this is the correct distance. I've had it so many times and I do not know what I'm doing wrong.

9. How to reset TDC form any data and measurments?

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by niceguy

I have few questions for weterans.
Vanilla 1.5

1. When I am aiming to the ship using a hydrophone with a direct direction and asking my crew for a report, they tells me about another ship that is 40 degrees next to it. There are no other ships in that direction. It's a bug?

2. How to estimate (set) the enemy convoy course without map update?
There is no problem with a single target when I'm using hydro and sonar but when there is more ships there then I have a problem that I mentioned before.

3. Where is torpedo best aimed? Directly into the middle with hope of breaking the construction?
Is it sense to hiting the same place many times? Does the draft of the torpedo change enything? If the keel is rounded, does it affect the torpedo reflection?

4. Are there other methods of manual targeting than TDC + mast height and Dick O'Kane method?

5. How effective are passive acoustic torpedoes? Are they best?

6. Does the enemy use torpedoes against you? If he does, how to deal with it, exactly with acustics?

7. Is it true that the enemy can not detect you using radar before 1943?

welcome, niceguy.
if you are playing the Stock game (not vanilla ) there are some techniques you can use to improve these issues but some of them are unexpected features.


the sonar detection/reporting thing is an unexpected feature. you can listen and hear ship-noise for direction but to get range you have go active-sonar and, personally, i rarely use active sonar. run silent, son. the disconnect between what you hear at the sonar station and what appears in the message text box is a known feature.



for tracking enemy singles or convoy, use the longer pencil to place an X on a detected location. over time (a few minutes) you will have a series of X's which you can then connect with a line from the ruler or protractor and determine a course of advance.



torpedo placement is always a topic of discussion. in real life, captains aimed for the bow or the stern because that is easiest place to cause the most damage to a merchie. lots of reading material on this. in the game, by default, the autotargeter shoots for the center of the target. if you are new to this thing, my advice would be to shoot for the center of target and as you evolve and develop your techniques you can figure out how to start shooting the propellers off the enemy.



targeting has many theories. i, myself, use autotargeting but there are others here at Subsim who will weigh in on that subject.



the US acoustic torpedos during WWII were not very effective. here is some reading for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_27_torpedo




the IJN will not use torpedos against you in the stock game. bombs, shells, etc but not torpedos. there are mega-mods you will encounter as you evolve here at Subsim that will have IJN shooting torpedos at you but not in the stock game.



if the enemy has radar they can and will detect you. assuming you are playing the US side vs the IJN, then it is a historical fact that the IJN bought into both radar and sonar a bit later than the US. so, the 1943 thing may or may not be correct...just know that if they have radar or sonar it will be used.



there will be others who will offer help on some of these topics. you should also do some reading (offline) to get an understanding of the background on some of these things.
good luck. and good hunting.

[propbeanie]

That KaleunMarco feller is on the ball! Fast and accurate! This is basically a repeat of what he mentions, with slightly different detail...

The skipper would use the periscope markings (see Lesson Plan 1: "Up Periscope" - Distance to the Horizon, a pdf, for an example) to estimate range. The game's periscope is not real accurate with its rendition of the view. Some US skippers avoided "pinging" because the sound could potentially be traced back to them. The game does not "model" that, so you can "take over" the sonar station yourself, aim the sonar head to the heading that you know your "target" is on, and send a ping for your range. No matter the method, you would then immediately go to your nav map and make a pencil mark based upon that information. Do that twice at a given interval (3'15" is common), and you can determine the "targets" speed also. Draw a line between and beyond the two points, and you can determine course and possible intercept point - at that point in time. If your sub's sonar heads are not "aim-able" by use of the mouse, you might want to apply CapnScurvy's Gato Sonar Bearing Fix_Stock mod, which "fixes" the Tambor, Gar and Balao boats also. You can also use the <Home> and <End> keys to rotate the heads to "aim" the sonar. For other targeting methodology, refer to Rockin Robbins Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread.

There was a "set" aiming paradigm the US skippers were trained to use prior to the outbreak of war, which stated aiming for the middle, the bow and the aft, so that you were "guaranteed" at least one hit, no matter what the target did to avoid. However, the US had a torpedo shortage from the beginning, and the skippers were admonished to use only what was necessary, usually just one, maybe two torpedoes on merchants, and were also directed to use the magnetic trigger exclusively. Did not work out too well initially, of course, as history shows...

The acoustic torpedoes you can get in-game are extremely slow, usually much slower than a DD can go. They are also weak in explosive power, and will "target" anything making noise. The game does not "model" the noise makers ships used to drag behind, but the torps can and will target your sub, if it is the loudest nearby "target", so be sure you are "quiet". Their purpose-in-life was as a down-the-throat DD attack deterrent, but have to be shot at the beginning of the attack run, so that the "target" is coming at you. The idea being that the torp would at least disable the DD's props and / or rudders.

In the stock game, you won't find any torpedoes shot at you, except maybe from planes, and the stock game has issues with "piloting" planes. The Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate mod has AI subs, ships and planes that can shoot torpedoes at you. The Event Camera in-game will usually (not always, if there's a lot going on) pick-up the enemy shooting at you. The way to avoid an attack to begin with is by minimal use of the periscope (not always possible). The longer and / or more often it's up, the quicker the enemy will be alerted to your presence, and can then target you. The way to avoid an attack is to dive and change course, turning toward or away from the expected torpedo track. If you are shot at like that, there is no "Incoming torpedo, sir!" vocal or text warning...

As KaleunMarco says, "Welcome To SubSim!"

[NZSharkbait]

As mentioned by KaleunMarco and propbeanie, the Mk 27 was limited by its low speed and inability to discern friend from foe: the most useful feature is that they can be fired blind while submerged and, if you're lucky, they might just disable a pesky destroyer or submarine chaser that has slowed down while tracking your sub. The problem is, you have no idea how fast such ships are going if you are firing blind.


Personally, after trying some out, I can't be bothered using the Mk 27 because:

a) They cost 500 'Renown' points each, while other, more useful weapons are available for less.



b) The electric Mk 18 'eels', that cost 200 'Renown' points, can be far more useful against all targets, albeit they are still limited by a relatively small range (3,600 yards), and their top speed of 30 knots means that the firing envelope against a fast moving ship is limited.

[jimmbbo]

Originally Posted by NZSharkbait

a) They cost 500 'Renown' points each, while other, more useful weapons are available for less.

b) The electric Mk 18 'eels', that cost 200 'Renown' points, can be far more useful against all targets, albeit they are still limited by a relatively small range (3,600 yards), and their top speed of 30 knots means that the firing envelope against a fast moving ship is limited.

One answer to the cost of torpedoes is to refit on the way back to base... The refit base will top up the fuel, do equipment repairs and replenish the torpedoes, saving the renown cost at home base...

[NZSharkbait]

Originally Posted by jimmbbo

One answer to the cost of torpedoes is to refit on the way back to base... The refit base will top up the fuel, do equipment repairs and replenish the torpedoes, saving the renown cost at home base...

While it is true that stopping off at an intermediate base means that it's possible to replenish the torpedoes, there's no option to change the type of torpedo used in the original loadout during such a refit. Thus, it is possible to end up being stuck with expensive Mk 27 torpedoes taking up tubes that could be better being filled with torpedoes that will sink ships, not just disable them, even after replenishment...which leads me to...


c) The Mk 27s will only damage/disable a ship, thus earning you no renown points, unless you can sink it with conventional torpedoes.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by NZSharkbait

While it is true that stopping off at an intermediate base means that it's possible to replenish the torpedoes, there's no option to change the type of torpedo used in the original loadout during such a refit. Thus, it is possible to end up being stuck with expensive Mk 27 torpedoes taking up tubes that could be better being filled with torpedoes that will sink ships, not just disable them, even after replenishment...which leads me to...


c) The Mk 27s will only damage/disable a ship, thus earning you no renown points, unless you can sink it with conventional torpedoes.

here is the object of your ire:

[KaleunMarco]

and here is where the Mark 27 and its brothers went.

[jimmbbo]

Originally Posted by NZSharkbait

While it is true that stopping off at an intermediate base means that it's possible to replenish the torpedoes, there's no option to change the type of torpedo used in the original loadout during such a refit.

True that... Once they are available, I use Mk 18s exclusively, and consider the Mk27s not worth carrying.

[niceguy]

I added points 8 and 9

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by niceguy

I added points 8 and 9

8. in my experience with SH4, the active sonar will ping the closest target and stop. in your example, more than likely your BB is not the closest. the game is a bit short on providing that type of info.

9. not sure what you mean by reset the TDC data. if you are using manual targeting, you will have to manually change the values you use to compute your shot. if you are using auto-targeting, simply unlock the TDC from one target and lock on to another. or, maybe i am mis-understanding the question.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by jimmbbo

True that... Once they are available, I use Mk 18s exclusively, and consider the Mk27s not worth carrying.

amen, brother.
although, this time around with FOTRSU, i may boost the speed on the 27 to be closer to the German counterpart just to see if i can get some hits. {don't tell RR or Propbeanie though}

[niceguy]

9. For example I wonna use stadimeter for checking the distance. But after this I wonna make some shoots manualy. I am guessing that distance data left in TDC can have some effect for my torpedoes accuracy.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by niceguy

9. For example I wonna use stadimeter for checking the distance. But after this I wonna make some shoots manualy. I am guessing that distance data left in TDC can have some effect for my torpedoes accuracy.

you are guessing correctly. manual=manual.

[propbeanie]

I wish I could draw lines on paper in these replies, but anyway, say you've got a group of ships coming at you niceguy... what I usually ~try~ to do is target one that is before a 90, at say 1200 yards, and shoot at it first, then I'll move to the ship that is close or on the 90, at say 800 yards, and shoot at it, never changing the range at all. If you're in close enough, it doesn't matter... Of course, this might explain my plethora of misses duds and under-runs - ~and~ the amount of DD response I get...

{don't tell RR or Propbeanie though}

We heard that!