Who / What / Where Game - Page 1141

mapuc · 05-12-21, 03:56 PM

I know a Swedish producer who started with constructing airplanes before and during WWI. Thereafter they dropped it and started to develop cars, later Break systems to cars and trucks.

But if I remember correctly it's a French company.

Markus

Catfish · 05-12-21, 04:04 PM

^ Yes, it is french, not swedish.

In this case the selling of automobiles of the company he was working for was dropping, so the then constructor persuaded the company to construct engines with him, and planes. The latter remained experimental, but the engine was a success. The name of the joint-vemture company was later changed, and even more later the company produced an aeroplane engine under its own name later in the war, not mentioning the initial constructor.

The company is still alive today, if not on the planes sector.

Buddahaid · 05-12-21, 04:04 PM

Motorenfabrik Oberursel?

Catfish · 05-12-21, 04:18 PM

^ No, french.

They all "copied" from another, but the engine in question is a french invention. Patents were initially bought from the german company "Motorenfabrik Oberursel", but the arrangement of cylinders and a lot of details were changed.

(The first Oberursel engines had only one clinder, to push up torque and horsepower the idea was to put several of those together.. next problem was the cooling, so the idea was to let the engine rotate.

Star shaped engines rotating were called rotary engines (rotaries),
star shaped non-rotating engines were called radial engines (radials)

Any arrangement used as a fixed "radial" engine at the time proved to get too hot – Blériot with his fixed 3-cylinder Anzani "radial" engine on his Bl. XI only crossed the channel because it began to rain, the water cooling the engine enough for B. to reach the english side.
The only successful radial engines with a fixed non-rotating star arrangement were the Canton-Unnée engines, which had to be watercooled.)

Edit: The name of the still-existing company has recently changed. It is quite a big one.
Even if you have the name of said company, you need the other name of the constructor to find the engine's complete name of the time.

Buddahaid · 05-12-21, 07:56 PM

Sorry, I've read all that searching and just come up blank.

Catfish · 05-13-21, 04:08 AM

Hint there are not so much french automobile companies left .. although this one is now of course international, and as recently said it has changed its name. It has swallowed other companies in the process, but the lion's share still lies with the original company

Moonlight · 05-13-21, 06:45 AM

It must be Renault then. Renault was founded nearly a 125 years ago in 1898 by three brothers, Fernand, Marcel and Louis Renault. I'll have to dig deeper for the right engine if this gets a yes from Catfish.

Jimbuna · 05-13-21, 07:45 AM

Catfish · 05-13-21, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight

It must be Renault then. Renault was founded nearly a 125 years ago in 1898 by three brothers, Fernand, Marcel and Louis Renault. I'll have to dig deeper for the right engine if this gets a yes from Catfish.

Not Renault, a big hint is in he last post of mine

The company is one in a group of many, the concern has changed its name several times but most cars are still being produced under their original names and marques. The company in question is the major one though.

@Jim this is a pretty engine, which is this supposed to be?
Not the engine in question though – because the one in your picture has the intake tubes at the front, and it has 9 cylinders instead of 7..

Aktungbby · 05-13-21, 09:22 AM

To reiterate: its not a Clerget, Le Rhone, or Gnome of any sort?

Catfish · 05-13-21, 09:26 AM

I read that the name or parts of the company was years later changed to Gnome or LeRhône, but the engine did not bear this name yet.
A the time there was a lot of experimenting and exchanging knowledge among aircraft and engine designers, collaboration and split ups going on, along with the founding of other/new companies.

There was the german Gnom, french Gnome, LeRhône, Gnome et Rhône (Société des Moteurs Gnome et Rhône), Gnome LeRhône (all with sometimes wrong designation), then Clerget, Bentley and so on, but apart from the initial german Gnom one-cylinder they were all a bit later.
When the french companies developed the small Gnom engine into usable aircraft engines they now had to get a patent from them to create their own Oberursel and Siemens-Halske rotary engines.

I saw that there is a lot of wrong information in Wikipedia..

Aktungbby · 05-13-21, 09:54 AM

well... my "photo: all french preWWI rotary engines" certainly ain't gettin' it.

Catfish · 05-13-21, 10:17 AM

Ok.. I did find exactly one historical photo, and it even only showed the predecessor of the engine in question.

So 3 hints:
- One of the planes this engine was installed to was a monoplane, (another is said to have been a pusher plane, but i did not find a photo - maybe some early Farman contraption? No idea). The monoplane flight in 1910 was not very successful.
- The engine is said to have had 70 hp (some say 50 but this was most probaby the predecessor), which was an absolute record for this early time
- It was shown quite late publicly at the Paris Flight Salon in 1910, and the only photo i know of it powering a plane is the aforementioned monoplane from 1910, too.

The internet sometimes claims that the engine powering said plane was a "Gnome", but this is wrong. The name emerged later.

Jimbuna · 05-13-21, 11:41 AM

Originally known as the Gnome Omega?

Buddahaid · 05-13-21, 12:01 PM

Rossell-Peugeot?

05-12-21, 03:56 PM	#17101
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,874 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	I know a Swedish producer who started with constructing airplanes before and during WWI. Thereafter they dropped it and started to develop cars, later Break systems to cars and trucks. But if I remember correctly it's a French company. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

05-12-21, 04:04 PM	#17102
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ Yes, it is french, not swedish. In this case the selling of automobiles of the company he was working for was dropping, so the then constructor persuaded the company to construct engines with him, and planes. The latter remained experimental, but the engine was a success. The name of the joint-vemture company was later changed, and even more later the company produced an aeroplane engine under its own name later in the war, not mentioning the initial constructor. The company is still alive today, if not on the planes sector. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

05-12-21, 04:04 PM	#17103
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,557 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Motorenfabrik Oberursel? __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

05-12-21, 04:18 PM	#17104
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ No, french. They all "copied" from another, but the engine in question is a french invention. Patents were initially bought from the german company "Motorenfabrik Oberursel", but the arrangement of cylinders and a lot of details were changed. (The first Oberursel engines had only one clinder, to push up torque and horsepower the idea was to put several of those together.. next problem was the cooling, so the idea was to let the engine rotate. Star shaped engines rotating were called rotary engines (rotaries), star shaped non-rotating engines were called radial engines (radials) Any arrangement used as a fixed "radial" engine at the time proved to get too hot – Blériot with his fixed 3-cylinder Anzani "radial" engine on his Bl. XI only crossed the channel because it began to rain, the water cooling the engine enough for B. to reach the english side. The only successful radial engines with a fixed non-rotating star arrangement were the Canton-Unnée engines, which had to be watercooled.) Edit: The name of the still-existing company has recently changed. It is quite a big one. Even if you have the name of said company, you need the other name of the constructor to find the engine's complete name of the time. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 05-12-21 at 05:06 PM.*

05-12-21, 07:56 PM	#17105
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,557 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Sorry, I've read all that searching and just come up blank. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

05-13-21, 04:08 AM	#17106
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hint there are not so much french automobile companies left .. although this one is now of course international, and as recently said it has changed its name. It has swallowed other companies in the process, but the lion's share still lies with the original company __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

05-13-21, 06:45 AM	#17107
Moonlight Admiral Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Fookhall Copse Posts: 2,133 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	It must be Renault then. Renault was founded nearly a 125 years ago in 1898 by three brothers, Fernand, Marcel and Louis Renault. I'll have to dig deeper for the right engine if this gets a yes from Catfish. __________________

05-13-21, 07:45 AM	#17108
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,146 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

05-13-21, 09:22 AM	#17110
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 27,852 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	To reiterate: its not a Clerget, Le Rhone, or Gnome of any sort? __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe" Last edited by Aktungbby; 05-13-21 at 09:31 AM.

05-13-21, 09:26 AM	#17111
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I read that the name or parts of the company was years later changed to Gnome or LeRhône, but the engine did not bear this name yet. A the time there was a lot of experimenting and exchanging knowledge among aircraft and engine designers, collaboration and split ups going on, along with the founding of other/new companies. There was the german Gnom, french Gnome, LeRhône, Gnome et Rhône (Société des Moteurs Gnome et Rhône), Gnome LeRhône (all with sometimes wrong designation), then Clerget, Bentley and so on, but apart from the initial german Gnom one-cylinder they were all a bit later. When the french companies developed the small Gnom engine into usable aircraft engines they now had to get a patent from them to create their own Oberursel and Siemens-Halske rotary engines. I saw that there is a lot of wrong information in Wikipedia.. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 05-13-21 at 10:23 AM.*

05-13-21, 09:54 AM	#17112
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 27,852 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	well... my "photo: all french preWWI rotary engines" certainly ain't gettin' it. __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"

05-13-21, 10:17 AM	#17113
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Ok.. I did find exactly one historical photo, and it even only showed the predecessor of the engine in question. So 3 hints: - One of the planes this engine was installed to was a monoplane, (another is said to have been a pusher plane, but i did not find a photo - maybe some early Farman contraption? No idea). The monoplane flight in 1910 was not very successful. - The engine is said to have had 70 hp (some say 50 but this was most probaby the predecessor), which was an absolute record for this early time - It was shown quite late publicly at the Paris Flight Salon in 1910, and the only photo i know of it powering a plane is the aforementioned monoplane from 1910, too. The internet sometimes claims that the engine powering said plane was a "Gnome", but this is wrong. The name emerged later. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 05-13-21 at 10:30 AM.*

05-13-21, 11:41 AM	#17114
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,146 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Originally known as the Gnome Omega? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

05-13-21, 12:01 PM	#17115
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,557 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Rossell-Peugeot? __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie