[REL] Air Torpedos/Torpedo Bombers revisited and working!

[jaxa]

Good news Rubini.
sh3.sdl is used by many mods and often makes problems with cooking mod's soup.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Troublous_Haze

Still working on it ?

it´s ready. But by real life labor and unspected problems I left it behind since last month. Perhaps in near future I can come back to it. At the same package i also made a new "Abandon boat" mod that have real sailors abandonning your uboat and real scutle charges, etc. See here (mp4 video download) an old beta compatible with Stiebler´s abandon mod routine showing these news real 3d action:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?kbry6zcl42tobul

This abandon mod is to be used if you are lost at sea without fuel or very damaged and can´t go back home. It shows a very stressed crew in the last uboat minutes dialogs and action. After the crew abandon the boat, a last dive to deep order is given and the self destruction charges finally seal the uboat fate. Some few minutes late your uboat will be destroyed by pressure. Then a dice is rolled and you can be rescued by friends or enemy or even perish at sea by sunstroke and dehydration. If i have the necessary time i will release both.

Outstanding! Watched the video nicely done.

[LemonA]

Originally Posted by Wreford-Brown

u.boat.net has some information:

• The first successful attack by Fido armed aircraft was 14 May 1943, so we can probably assume that the torpedo came into operational service around 1 May.
• Inital search depth was 15m, but this was increased to 45m later in the war (no dates available)
• The torpedo only made 12 kts for about 10 mins (total range around 3700m). U-boats could outrun on surface, but not submerged.
• Torpedoes were designed to be carried in place of a 1000lb bomb, so any aircraft capable of carrying 1000lb bomb could carry Fido. There are two assumptions we could make from this:
  • Aircraft carried Fido in place of all 1000lb bombs
  • Aircraft capable of carrying more than one 1000lb bomb would carry one Fido and normal DCs/bombs on the other racks in order to multiply their chances of engaging different targets
  • I personally prefer the second one, but it's your mod!
• Fido sank 37 submarines during the course of the war (31 German and 6 Japanese), damaged 18 (15 German, 3 Japanese) and was approx 22% effective (compared to 9% for depth charges).
• Fido was carried by Catalina and Liberator plus 'most US Navy squadrons flying from escort carriers'.

I'm happy to help with scripting if I can...

With the data above I come to the conclusion every 103.3 days on average there was a proper FIDO-attack on my u-boat with a hit-chance of 22%.
And only
- if it is daytime,
- if date is after 1.may '43
and if i am in the air-coverage of the enemy's bomber.

And not every 8, 24 or 48 hours. Thats pure fantasy.

And please stop explaining how the AI works. It ruins the experience and its cheating.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by LemonA

With the data above I come to the conclusion every 103.3 days on average there was a proper FIDO-attack on my u-boat with a hit-chance of 22%.
And only
- if it is daytime,
- if date is after 1.may '43
and if i am in the air-coverage of the enemy's bomber.

And not every 8, 24 or 48 hours. Thats pure fantasy.

And please stop explaining how the AI works. It ruins the experience and its cheating.

The chance to be found by airplanes carrying a Fido is really small even with each 8hrs with 50% or even 75% probability on the RND. After play the game a lot with this mod I was attacked by fidos only 1 time per patrol (1 time each 2 months average). This is because a lot of others factors also have a great influence including the fact that the planes only will find you by visual, so no night attacks. And this is a game and i want a bit of action on it. Anyway if you don´t like these settings you can always make these probabilities yet more small. You will find these settings on the files that you need to merge on your RND, provided with the mod. A simple find&replace using standard windows text editor is enough. Or just don´t use the mod at all.

The AI explanations intention is to share knowledge and this way allowing the mod to be adjustable for anyone. I know how the mod works and it continues to be fun for me.

Hopes that it can be fun for you too.

[AndreasT]

I think I have had about 5 encounters with Fido planes, always at night and they never ever spotted me.
Makes me wonder?!?

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by AndreasT

I think I have had about 5 encounters with Fido planes, always at night and they never ever spotted me.
Makes me wonder?!?

With sh3 engine is impossible to only spawn randon groups just at day light (only with script groups this can be possible, but in a very rectricted way). What is possible is to make them almost blind at night to follow a bit the real thing. Another big problem is that the night and day isn´t always at the same common times. In some positions at Sh3 world you can have sun at 3:00am or night at 10:00 am (i´m not speaking about the poles). So it´s a compromisse, like the majority of mods for sh3. Hope that you have more luck ( or it will be a bad thing?) to encounter the torpedo planes at day light next time. Anyhow, is also (or shall be) difficult to you to locate them at night, no?
If you use them on a single self made mission you always can then script the torpedo bombers just at day light.

Resume: to have topedo bombers more correctly into the campaign game we need to put them on random groups. Random groups in sh3 engine don´t know if it´s day light or not. To avoid this problem i made them almost blind at night. But this was my approach&solution for this problem, the mod is open to anyone adapt it to thier likes, as we have not "the best" solution speaking on sh3 engine.

Ahoy!

[VONHARRIS]

I activated your mod and I already had my first encounter
I survived.
Swordfish torpedo bomber
Question : Should it be flying in that rain?

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by VONHARRIS

I activated your mod and I already had my first encounter
I survived.
Swordfish torpedo bomber
Question : Should it be flying in that rain?

Hi Vonharris,

The explanation is the same of the post above. To have torpedo bombers (with torpedos of course) appearing in a campaign game we need to have them in the RND or scripted on the SCR. The weather is random and the day/night cicle is not used for spawn scripted or random groups, so it´s a sh3 engine limitation, so no fix. anyhow they are very blind at bad wheather and at night, then they will probably never attack you at this conditions, but rarelly this can occur.

The major you mess and learn about sh3 files&engine more you learn how they are limited and unreal. Like i said, in truth the majority of mods for Sh3 (even sh4 and sh5) are at first a compromisse.

As a botton line is also possible to not use them (torpedo bombers) in random groups or scripted. To do this you need to put these planes on airbases, this will make them appears only in certain conditions, almost never at night (if you set the necessary file correctly, and almost never in bad wheater). Ok, but the torpedo bombers behaviour will be then very odd, they will drop torpedos at very high altitudes 9as a level bombers) or will drop the torpedo over you as a dive bomeber. So after so much tests, i opted by the design that is now on the mod, using random groups even with yet some flaws like exposed on these two posts. It´s a compromisse.

Another way to use the torpedo bomber mod is to not enable it on the campaign but only use it in single scripted misssion where you will have total control of their behaviour. It´s your choice.

And to finish i guess that anyone that already played sh3 campaign a bit already encountered planes/bombers at night and also at some bad wheather, so this "odd" behaviour is a stock one.

[VONHARRIS]

Rubini,
First I would like to thank you for that mod. Now I have to pay double attention to the skies.

Second , your explanation is more than clear and I totaly agree with it.
I have been bombed during total darkness and in heavy rain by an Avro Anson recce plane!

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by VONHARRIS

Rubini,
First I would like to thank you for that mod. Now I have to pay double attention to the skies.

Second , your explanation is more than clear and I totaly agree with it.
I have been bombed during total darkness and in heavy rain by an Avro Anson recce plane!

Thanks Von by the words!

Just another comment that i probably already posted here on this thread some time ago: Sh3 engine (mainly in late war) will detect enemy planes almost always and at distances that you can drink a cup of coffe and press crash dive without any real "war fear" feeling. This is why you end rarelly being attacked by torpedo bombers. I made for my use a never released script that make the crash dive (and others dives orders too) a bit random in time making them a bit more long to be acquire sometimes, simulating the real thing. This add a uncertaint to a so much robotic&without war stress action on the game. Sometimes then, i end now very damaged by planes and aerial torpedos (mainly in late war): destroyed propellers, destroyed engines, etc, much more challenge them before. This also puts to the surface another mod: "abandon boat mod", wich simulate, in real in game 3D, the crew abandonning the boat, followed by a rescue, lost at sea or rescue by enemies situation at the end (based on your damage). Much better than before, IMHO!

[VONHARRIS]

Originally Posted by Rubini

Thanks Von by the words!

Just another comment that i probably already posted here on this thread some time ago: Sh3 engine (mainly in late war) will detect enemy planes almost always and at distances that you can drink a cup of coffe and press crash dive without any real "war fear" feeling. This is why you end rarelly being attacked by torpedo bombers. I made for my use a never released script that make the crash dive (and others dives orders too) a bit random in time making them a bit more long to be acquire sometimes, simulating the real thing. This add a uncertaint to a so much robotic&without war stress action on the game. Sometimes then, i end now very damaged by planes and aerial torpedos (mainly in late war): destroyed propellers, destroyed engines, etc, much more challenge them before. This also puts to the surface another mod: "abandon boat mod", wich simulate, in real in game 3D, the crew abandonning the boat, followed by a rescue, lost at sea or rescue by enemies situation at the end (based on your damage). Much better than before, IMHO!

Nice point here.
You are right : With a RWR device you can detect enemies very soon.
As for the "abandon U-boot" , I am using the otion in Stiebler's add-on patch , but no eye - candy.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by VONHARRIS

Nice point here.
You are right : With a RWR device you can detect enemies very soon.
As for the "abandon U-boot" , I am using the otion in Stiebler's add-on patch , but no eye - candy.

In my game then i have a "package" to allow all these things make sense: A less sensible RWR, less air attacks (as they are too much sometimes) but more powerfull damage potential, the added air torpedos late war and the not always the same time duration dive orders. the result is much better and challenge than before.

And yes, Stiebler´s abandon mod is very good. My eye candy version have two variations; one using eye candy+ Stieblers Abandon mod sequence, another using eye candy mod plus my own Abandon mod using scripted third part soft at memory. Here a tease of an old beta version of the eye candy:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?kbry6zcl42tobul
(see post #62 on this thread with some explanations)

The new Abandon boat with script I yet need to make a youtube movie when i have the time.

[VONHARRIS]

Downloading the video as I am typing.

Edit : I saw the video. Very nice work. Congratulations!
How can one reduce the effectiveness of the RWR devices?

[Rubini]

Hi Von,

To the visual detection reduction see here (easy, simple and instant result!):
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=198301
post #6

The RWR effectivety reduction is always reasonable on the "unofficial rocket mod" here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151612
If I recall well, we (the community) have discussed a lot about the entries to adjust to have more or less RWR effectivity on the above thread and probably also on the readme of the mod . Take a look there as I don´t recall correctly now.

Anyhow the new sh3 script with crash dive randonmization is ready, the same for verison 3 of the torpedo mod and the alternative Abandon boat mod since some time ago. i never release this package because i´m very short in free time and also because i have my doubts that if someone is using the Sh3 script (the crash dive randomization and the new Abandon mod only works with it at background). So, perhaps could be a much effort from my side for just few if any users of the mod. If someone really like and use Sh3 script , please contact me that i will provide the mod and few support on how to use it.