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Old 05-25-2021, 01:51 AM   #1
kickswitch
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Default TMA - Towed array question - gameplay

Hi,


Was wondering how I maintain a solution on a contact when I retrieve my towed array - I read somewhere, not sure where that when a sub is about to launch they retrieve the towed array before firing for obvious reasons.


So that's the question basically. I'm guessing it has something to do with merging the contact trackers spherical w/ Towed but if someone could please enlighten me?


Cheers,
Kick
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Old 05-25-2021, 03:25 AM   #2
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Does anyone know of any guides written that detail such information as - how to work a merged contact with the towed array and spherical on the TMA display?


Thanks

Last edited by kickswitch; 05-25-2021 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 05-25-2021, 04:15 AM   #3
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Hi Kickswitch,

If I reel in my TA before firing, and don't have the target on the other sonars, I'm basically assuming the solution is good enough for a couple of minutes to put the torps in the right spot and then their seekers can take over for the kill.

So, I think there's a degree of speculation in it, but I think there is speculation for just about every shot (sonar washes out due to ownship evasion speed, target evades, torps 'block out' the target's noise on sonar, etc.)

I've not heard how to put a TA track onto another sonar (so you can reel in the TA) - not sure it can be done??

Just my 2c - happy to be corrected
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Old 05-25-2021, 04:29 AM   #4
kickswitch
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Default Makes sense

Hi Stewey, now I think about that that does make a lot of sense - the solution is put in the torpedo does the rest (hopefully) thanks mate. I'm thinking that by retrieving the towed array that would be for when you go defensive with an incoming torpedo for evasion.
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Old 05-25-2021, 02:04 PM   #5
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Hello!

Doing TMA on a merged track is no different than doing TMA on a single track. However, the merged data can make it a bit more busy/confusing to determine what kind of trends you're seeing in the dot stack (I wish the dots in the dot stack would be correspondingly colored like the LOBs are in the main TMA display).

Unfortunately, no, you cannot move a track from the towed to another array. The way to get around this is to establish a Master track and then when the towed goes away, you may be able to still track your target via spherical/cylindrical or conformal, etc.

When evading, there's two general modes: 1) you just started an attack and the contact is not aware yet and 2) retaliatory fire (of course there are more modes but this is basic guidance). For mode 1), you do not necessarily have to evade flat out yet (use your judgement based on distance to target, etc) and you can do a "smart" evasion instead where you only go fast enough to keep your sensors from washing out (i.e., tactical speed) and/or keep from cavitating, perhaps. If and when the enemy returns fire, you can move to flat-out evasion. With mode 2), you almost always do want to run flat out so you would reel the towed back in right away.

If you're being shot at, the immediate priority is staying alive. When you're done evading, you then re-establish contact and start a new solution. The enemy will likely be in the same situation as you and have to re-do their solution, too. Remember, a solution only tells you the past. Hope this helps!
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Old 05-25-2021, 03:42 PM   #6
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The basics with using the towed array are confusing, most of the time.

You should be able to tri-angulate a contact based on the towed's displacement from the hull, but it rarely works out that way.

Sonar is NOT the same as the radar in a fighter jet. As Chazly mentioned, TMA builds on past data. You're inputting a guess of distance, course, and speed and watching it over time to see if your guess fits the reality.

As you've already figured out, the ADCAP is supposed to be a pretty good torpedo. Just get it in the right neighborhood and let the fish do the work.

Your attack moves should always include some form of evasion. Think about ways the AI or MP players have spoofed you in the past. My rule of thumb is that small changes can have big impacts at longer ranges. Think about what happens with basic TMA when you change course or speed, the solution the other guy had on you just went out the window (aside from assuming your base position). The kicker is that they won't know you made some changes until at least six minutes later.


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Old 05-26-2021, 01:35 AM   #7
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TA is NOT designed for triangulation because antenna is very long (about 300 meters on Perry and little shorter on submarines). So you just cannot measure TA contacts from one point.

TMA is only as good as you are good in this job. So if you arent supercomputer, just take a note: bigger ol lower errors exists ALWAYS on your solution. If you understand it sooner, you will be more effective in TMA.

Don't watch FPSchazly's TMA videos - he tries to do this too perfectly and only for AI moving straight targets. In MP this kind of "perfection" (all dots in perfect line) never happenes. Yuo should to learn how to use "unperfect" TMA solutions for predicting where is your target
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Old 05-26-2021, 05:12 AM   #8
kickswitch
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Default Thanks for the help!

Makes sense.



Have had a few good hits so far, and I understand what some of you are saying about the dot stack as an approximation and "history" not an exact science and all that.


Makes me feel a bit better when miss and satisfied when I hit home.


Cheers
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Old 05-26-2021, 05:28 AM   #9
kickswitch
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Default Hehe

Oh and too late I already watched Chazly's vids
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Old 05-26-2021, 01:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickswitch View Post
Oh and too late I already watched Chazly's vids
I recommend watching Chazly's videos for basic tutorial butits useless for advanced combat - especially in MP.
In my opinion he just focus on resolving TMA puzzles instead fighting. Because TMA is only one aspect of underwater combat. Many things are more important than focusing on straight dot line
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Old 05-27-2021, 07:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p7p8 View Post
I recommend watching Chazly's videos for basic tutorial butits useless for advanced combat - especially in MP.
In my opinion he just focus on resolving TMA puzzles instead fighting. Because TMA is only one aspect of underwater combat. Many things are more important than focusing on straight dot line

That seems like good advice.


I was recently experimenting with LOFAR on the Demon waterfall on the 688i, trying to accurately dial in the target's speed using the towed array, and I found it was mostly a distraction that got me killed more than a few times.
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Old 07-09-2021, 12:28 PM   #12
kickswitch
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Default But in practice...

Yeah I see now - fine tune too much with TMA solution and game over.


Lock in a decent solution - take into account that it's a 'History' of the target and not set in stone. Then let the weapon do it's work.



I need not rabbit on then, the posts above speak for themselves.



Cheers
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