Wuhan virus 2020

[Von Due]

We (Norway), together with Denmark, closed the borders to Sweden... except we didn't really.... The #1 border town in SW Sweden has been busy serving Norwegians like before and now we have a number of red zones with the follow up restrictions... Good going. We can send humans to the moon but keep them from going to other red zones.. nah... can't do that.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Von Due

We (Norway), together with Denmark, closed the borders to Sweden... except we didn't really.... The #1 border town in SW Sweden has been busy serving Norwegians like before and now we have a number of red zones with the follow up restrictions... Good going. We can send humans to the moon but keep them from going to other red zones.. nah... can't do that.

It was a one-way close.

While the Danish government closed the border for Swedish citizens to enter Copenhagen, the Swedish government had the border towards Denmark open.

Hundreds if not thousand of citizens in Copenhagen toke a trip to Sweden, to enjoy a beer, coffee at some restaurant or going to get their har cut..and so on.
Markus

[Jimbuna]

[Mr Quatro]

I really believe this is a true statement Covid-19 is here to stay

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/09/90049...hout-a-vaccine

University of Texas Medical Branch, told NPR's Weekend Edition that one of the more likely scenarios is that the spread of COVID-19 will eventually be slowed as a result of herd immunity. He said that he'd be surprised "if we're still wearing masks and 6-feet distancing in two or three years" and that in time, the virus could become no more serious than the common cold.

[vienna]

As noted before, in the entire history since the discovery of viruses, only one (1) virus has ever been declared as eradicated: smallpox. Every single other virus out in the world is either incurable or only manageable, at this time. Even if a vaccine is found for Covid-19 in the very near future, the likelihood is it will not have a universal effectiveness for all persons nor will it protect against current or future varied Covid-19 strains, much as the same situation regarding current flu vaccines where not all recipients have the same beneficial effects or the combination of flu strains in the vaccine fully matches the strains in current circulation...

Covid-19 is definitely not going to magically 'disappear' nor is it reasonably likely to be medically 'cured' it is highly likely to be with us for a very long time...



<O>

[Jimbuna]

French police say face masks will be required at busy tourist sites and over 100 streets in Paris, as infections rise.

Gyms, swimming pools, leisure centres and play centres reopen in latest stage of lockdown easing in Wales.

Australia records its deadliest day of the coronavirus pandemic, although new infections are falling.

A BBC investigation reveals that some staff in Ghana's hospitals have been selling vital PPE for personal profit.

The US has passed 5m cases, while Brazil has had more than 100,000 deaths linked to Covid-19

However, New Zealand has passed 100 days without a local infection, and plans to open a travel bubble with the Cook Islands.

[Jimbuna]

Concern over the growing number of infections in France prompted officials to make face masks compulsory outdoors in busy parts of Paris from today. The order applies to people aged 11 and over in "certain very crowded zones"

In Germany, the economy minister warned of an "alarming" rise in infections. "We need to flatten the curve and turn this around," Peter Altmaier told local media. His comments come as children in Berlin return to school for the first time in months.

Greece recorded yet another daily record in cases - 203 - on Sunday. It brings the total number of infections there to 5,623, with many of those recorded in recent weeks.

Holidaymakers in several countries were warned that beaches may be closed if they become too crowded during the ongoing heatwave. In Belgium, police made arrests after a brawl broke out when people were asked to leave a beach.

A top US health official has praised Taiwan’s response to the coronavirus pandemic, hailing it as “among the most successful in the world”, during a rare diplomatic visit to the island.

Pranab Mukherjee, India's president from 2012 - 2017, has just announced that he has tested positive for Covid-19.

[Gerald]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...face-mask.html

Oh my God!

[Jimbuna]

A further eight coronavirus deaths have been reported in the UK, taking the official number of people who have died after testing positive with the virus to 46,574.

However, the daily figures tend to be lower on Mondays because of reporting delays over the weekend. The daily figure announced a week ago was nine.

The latest government figures also recorded 816 new cases, a day after it had gone up above 1,000 for the first time since late June.

[Skybird]

"Airlinering" in times of Corona. IMO a stupid idea if no real necessary need is given. For simple holiday? Stupid.

"Flying is like a box of toffees, you never know what you catch." - Skybird

I post this in full length, because I am not sure that just the link to the translation site works, on my rig, such links with certain soruces do not work like this and do not translate to English, only German to German. Which obviously is pointless.

Originally Posted by https://www.focus.de/wissen/technik/fliegen-in-corona-zeiten-rechnung-zeigt-wie-hoch-die-ansteckungsgefahr-ist_id_12256268.html

Dieter Scholz is professor for vehicle technology and aircraft construction at the University of Applied Sciences in Hamburg.

Is it a good idea to go on vacation by plane in Corona times? Dieter Scholz, professor of aircraft construction, answers this question in an interview - and explains why he considers some statements made by the aviation industry to be false.

FOCUS Online: Mr. Scholz, you are very familiar with airplanes and warn of the risk of corona infection in them. In your opinion, how high is the risk of contracting Sars-CoV-2 on a plane?

Dieter Scholz: It is easy to estimate the likelihood that a flight traveler can become infected. Of course, this can only happen if a sick person is on the plane. Therefore we first have to calculate how high the probability of this is.

If we assume a flight from Germany, it is important to know how many Covid 19 sufferers we have in Germany. These figures are published regularly. However, we have more sick people than officially known. The RKI assumes that the number of infected people is under-recorded by a factor of 11 to 20. That's an estimate based on various studies.

If we take a factor of 16 as the mean for the calculation, we have to multiply the measured number of cases by 16 and then divide the result by the number of inhabitants in Germany. When you have calculated that, you know that every thousandth person in Germany has Covid-19.
About the expert

But how likely is it now that a sick person is sitting on an airplane? We know that it's particularly easy to get infected when a lot of people are together in a small space. That means you have to include the aircraft size in the calculation. A common airplane carries around 200 passengers. So if about one in 1000 people is sick, then statistically speaking, about one in five aircraft has a sick person.

FOCUS Online: And now the question is how many fellow travelers this infected infected.

Scholz: Exactly. And that's a little more complicated. This also has to do with the duration of the flight or the number of hours you sit in the plane. There are various publications in the scientific literature in which there have been cases of infection on the plane and in which one has laboriously researched how many people were infected with a sick person.

These examinations show an infection rate per hour of the flight, but this varies from case to case by a factor of almost 100. Of course, it can also be that someone was sick on board and no one was infected. So I assumed the lowest value in this blurring.

FOCUS Online: What is your conclusion then?

Scholz: A sick person would only infect one per thousand, i.e. one in a thousand people on board - and that every hour. A per mil of 200 would be 0.2 people. Now let's say a typical flight takes about five hours on average. Therefore we multiply the 0.2 by 5 and that means over the five-hour flight one person out of 200 becomes infected. Since there were now five planes on the move, as described at the beginning, only one in 1000 people was infected. That is now an estimated order of magnitude.

FOCUS Online: This estimate would only apply to flights from Germany. Depending on where you are flying to, for example in a risk area, the risk of being infected on the return flight could be significantly higher.

Scholz: Exactly, our calculation is based on assumptions for Germany and for aircraft with around 200 passengers. The bigger an airplane, the more likely it is to get infected. Depending on the country, the aircraft and the duration of the flight, you have to make a slightly different calculation.

FOCUS Online: So the probability varies with the size of the means of transport and the number of people in it. Does that mean flying is more risky than taking a bus or train?

Scholz: The risk of getting infected is particularly high in large groups - and also the longer you are on the road. However, it also depends on the air conditioning in the respective means of transport. As far as this ventilation is concerned, I am more familiar with airplanes than with other modes of transport.

In the airplane, the fuselage is ventilated salami slices. The air is therefore not blown through the entire aircraft. The air that is recirculated is sent through a high-performance filter. This ensures that the air that comes back does not spread the viruses through the aircraft.

As for the ventilation of other modes of transport, I'm not an expert, but I've done some research. The coach, for example, also works with both fresh air and recirculation, but the filters are not as good as in the airplane. However, you can turn off the recirculation in the bus and switch to 100 percent fresh air.

FOCUS Online: Now the aviation industry says the risk of being infected with Covid-19 is low in passenger planes due to the ventilation system. Airbus chief engineer Jean-Brice Dumont said literally: “The air in the aircraft is cleaner when landing than when the doors are closed when taking off.” What is your opinion on this statement?

Scholz: This statement by Jean-Brice Dumont is wrong. Just take the concentration of CO2 in the cabin air, which increases during the flight from the breathing of the people on board from an initial 400 ppm (parts per million) to around 1400 ppm. The air quality has not improved as a result. I think three statements by the aviation industry are wrong:

1. Operating room

The Federation of German Airlines claims that the air in the aircraft is as pure as in the operating theater. There are several hundred people on the plane. In the operating room, however, not so many for good reasons. In the aircraft, the viruses originating from individual sick people are directly in the cabin and endanger fellow passengers. The ventilation flushes out viruses while new ones are constantly being added. Such a virus concentration sets in. The virus concentration can be halved by the recirculation of the air in the aircraft in connection with the Hepa filters.

2. Aeration rate

CSU Transport Minister Andreas Scheuer pleaded on July 23, 2020 in a press conference for a higher "ventilation rate" and claimed that the air is completely replaced every 2 to 3 minutes. The term "ventilation rate" does not exist in ventilation technology. In order to ventilate the aircraft much more, they would have to be completely rebuilt. This cannot be achieved in the short term or economically. What is meant by the "ventilation rate" is the air exchange rate, which is, however, irrelevant for the virus concentration and is only so high in the aircraft because the aircraft only has two cubic meters of air volume per person. In three minutes, a new cabin volume of air flows into the cabin. However, five such air changes are necessary to almost completely flush the cabin.

3. Climate curtain

Scheuer continues to speak of a "climate curtain". By this he means the air flow, which according to the aviation industry's explanation in aircraft should only flow from top to bottom - and not horizontally. This would mean that the air does not flow left, right or back and forth.

FOCUS Online: But this statement is not true?

Scholz: Exactly. It is again a false statement, because in the aircraft cabin cross-sections are ventilated and circular eddies are formed there. This means that air also flows horizontally - from left to right and vice versa. Due to turbulence and diffusion, aerosols are also distributed in the longitudinal direction of the cabin.

It is also rumored that each row on the plane has its own air conditioning system. That's not true either, because there are no walls between the rows. The turbulence created by the air conditioning system itself will probably mix the air over about five rows. There are flow simulations that show very clearly how the droplets are distributed in the air. Ultimately, we can also see this in the studies that show how people were infected on the plane - this also affected people many rows in front of or behind the sick person.

FOCUS Online: Can you again start from the five rows - as explained above for the air flow?

Scholz: These five rows are the WHO risk area. The WHO once stipulated that if it was found that a sick person was sitting on the plane, then one would have to inform the passengers in five rows, namely the two rows in front of it, the row concerned and the two rows behind it.

This area of ​​risk defined by the WHO is also not undisputed. There is a study that shows that as many people have been infected outside this zone as inside, which could be due to the aerosols that are spreading throughout the room, such as the smell of a cigarette.

FOCUS Online: Nevertheless, you are of the opinion that even a free middle seat between two travelers could help to reduce infection by a factor of eight.

Scholz: Based on the simple volume model, yes, because there are different mechanisms of contagion and I'm not talking here as a doctor, but as someone who has the air conditioning and its currents in the aircraft in mind.

For example, we are more likely to get infected if the sick person is sitting next to us. When the sick person sneezes, breathes, coughs or speaks, viruses are sent out by him or her. And such a cloud of droplets can of course hit those who are particularly close with a particularly high concentration. Therefore, keeping a certain distance between two people would be helpful to reduce the chance of infection. This is also the reason why we currently make sure to keep a distance of 1.50 meters in everyday life.

FOCUS Online: Now every traveler who comes back from a risk area should be tested at the airport or must be in a two-week quarantine. In your opinion, is that a sensible rule? Or would it even make more sense to test passengers before flying?

Scholz: It is undisputed that air traffic first led to the pandemic, because only by plane can we get from one continent to another so quickly. So if air traffic resumes now after the lockdown, we will have the same problem as in the beginning. Because the situation has not improved.

Aircraft arrive in Germany every day from risk areas such as the USA and Brazil. All that happens is that those arriving have to go into quarantine according to the regulations of the federal states. It can hardly be verified whether this quarantine is being followed.

So we have a big problem and luckily this has now been recognized and tests have been initiated. Of course it would be best to test abroad before taking off. If you first test in Germany and then recognize someone who is sick, you have to track how many other passengers have become infected.

There were some countries that were very careful and tested every arriving passenger - and some positive too. This is not proof that you are infected on the plane, but it shows that from countries with high numbers of illnesses, infected people can also get on planes and infect other people.

FOCUS Online: What do you advise to keep the risk of infection on board as low as possible? Both the airlines and the passengers?

Scholz: It's very simple. Actually, you just have to think about what the hazard actually looks like in the aircraft. And then you can offer the passengers serious protection, in this case an FFP2 mask that has to fit well. A compromise would be a medical mask like the one used in the operating theater. The European Aviation Safety Authority (EASA) recommends such medical masks.

In trains, air conditioning is even inferior. The Deutsche Bahn until last time I checked ten days or so ago categorically refused to confirm in a legally resistant manner that they use HEPA filters, which are a precondition for filtering virusses out of the air. Also, the air conditioning systems are not that powerful in trains and busses.

Note that the talk is not of cleaning the air of virusses in planes completely. But to reduce the virus load by around 50%. The other 50% you have to live with.

I stick to it: if you must not, then do not fly (drive train). If you must, use a FFP2, better FFP3 mask without filter. Have severals with you so that you can change once the one you are wearing got wet.

[Mr Quatro]

That's a long read Skybird, but the man answering the question:

FOCUS Online: What do you advise to keep the risk of infection on board as low as possible? Both the airlines and the passengers?

left off don't go to the rest room

[mapuc]

Denmark have open to early and too fast.

The R0 have gone from 0.6 in June, to 1.4 Aug. 10

Markus

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

It's gone total politic, more exactly immigration politic in the Danish Corona outbreak.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

That's a long read Skybird, but the man answering the question:

left off don't go to the rest room

It is a long read, yes, but I find it irresponsible how many - quite impertinent - lies and overly optimistic claims are being made on the hygienics safety just to lure people onboard of airliners again. Or cruise ships, for that matter. Its good that the man, an expert for the hardware matter, explains some of the technical backgrounds in detail.



Until we have more potent drugs and cures to actually treat and heal even milder forms of Covid-19, to help people not suffering from long-lasting post-corona syndromes of various kinds and lasting organic damage, this is a disease that you should not want to easily catch. It is not harmless. It is not easy. Its nmasty. Its underhanded. It is malicious. Dont play gambles. Avoid it where ever you can. Tune the chances in your favour, in every regard. Mucho machismo is no effective therapy. Its just a retard's posing.