Supposed World War II Dogfighting Footage

Stealth Hunter · 04-06-08, 12:40 AM

I'm very skeptical of this. In the past, I've seen a lot of films taken by actual pilots. For starters, the BF-109, when firing, has no smoke visible from the gun barrels, no tracer rounds can be seen, and no flashes from the gun barrels, even when you slow the footage down (at 0:52 for instance).

Secondly, the overall layout of the film seems a bit suspicious. Sure, you have planes coming in close contact with one another, but at 2:18, you have a Spitfire that darts DIRECTLY IN FRONT of the camera. The guncam shows that the pilot recording the footage made no attempt to fire back. With that said, the Spitfire's gun barrels show no flashes or smoke trails or visible tracer rounds. To top this all off, the "digitally remastered" note on this video has made me extremely suspicious, as 1941 guncam footage in this type of color was very rare (if not non-existent in most cases; this would have been in black and white; the footage appears to be from a 1960's or 1970's reenactment, not from 1941).

Thirdly and finally, the layout of the whole dogfight seems suspicious. When the German leader causes the one Spitfire to pull away with black smoke popping out of the radiator, he continues to fly straight away from land, seemingly forgetting the existence of the second Spitfire (this was the moment when the pilot recording the guncam footage has the second Spitfire pull right in front of him, but he never fired a shot at the enemy or even made an attempt to force him to break away from his flight leader).

What do you all think? This might come from the Romano Archives, but I'm very suspicious of it. One other thing I noticed was that when the German leader's plane was damaged, extremely close to the pilot recording this footage, no metal pieces flew backwards. There was no visible sign of damage, either, save for white smoke which can very easily be installed and detonated in a reenactment. This only strengthens my belief that this is fake/staged, not at all authentic.

tater · 04-06-08, 01:11 AM

Clearly not real.

Doesn't even require much thought.

Probably from some history channel show.

Dowly · 04-06-08, 05:35 AM

Yes, not real. It was done for some show.

Biggles · 04-06-08, 08:19 AM

I think it was made for a History Channel Battle of Britain program. I've seen it before, that's all I know, and it ain't real, that's for sure.

Steel_Tomb · 04-06-08, 08:40 AM

Not real. No real sense of dogfighting tactics. The spit at the front made no real attempt to escape, in RL he would have started a turning fight with the 109's breaking hard to create BFM problems you simply don't fly straight and level like that. The creator obviously doesn't have much idea of what its like in a dogfight! When the spit jumps in the middle of the formation made me laugh, yeah I'll stop infront of him. If you were to do that you would make a deflection shot and bug out not hang around to get shot. Poor stuff really.

Dowly · 04-06-08, 09:07 AM

Do YOU know how it was in a real dogfight? The cockpits were pretty darn tight, it was hard to see back. In Mike Spick's book "Luftwaffe Fighter Aces", there's a reallife story of a one 109 shooting down I think it was 4 or 3 Hurricanes all flying in a big formation and nobody noticed a thing. Alot of mistakes were made with the younger pilots, I could very well see that kind of stuff happen.

04-06-08, 12:40 AM	#1
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Supposed World War II Dogfighting Footage I'm very skeptical of this. In the past, I've seen a lot of films taken by actual pilots. For starters, the BF-109, when firing, has no smoke visible from the gun barrels, no tracer rounds can be seen, and no flashes from the gun barrels, even when you slow the footage down (at 0:52 for instance). Secondly, the overall layout of the film seems a bit suspicious. Sure, you have planes coming in close contact with one another, but at 2:18, you have a Spitfire that darts DIRECTLY IN FRONT of the camera. The guncam shows that the pilot recording the footage made no attempt to fire back. With that said, the Spitfire's gun barrels show no flashes or smoke trails or visible tracer rounds. To top this all off, the "digitally remastered" note on this video has made me extremely suspicious, as 1941 guncam footage in this type of color was very rare (if not non-existent in most cases; this would have been in black and white; the footage appears to be from a 1960's or 1970's reenactment, not from 1941). Thirdly and finally, the layout of the whole dogfight seems suspicious. When the German leader causes the one Spitfire to pull away with black smoke popping out of the radiator, he continues to fly straight away from land, seemingly forgetting the existence of the second Spitfire (this was the moment when the pilot recording the guncam footage has the second Spitfire pull right in front of him, but he never fired a shot at the enemy or even made an attempt to force him to break away from his flight leader). What do you all think? This might come from the Romano Archives, but I'm very suspicious of it. One other thing I noticed was that when the German leader's plane was damaged, extremely close to the pilot recording this footage, no metal pieces flew backwards. There was no visible sign of damage, either, save for white smoke which can very easily be installed and detonated in a reenactment. This only strengthens my belief that this is fake/staged, not at all authentic.

04-06-08, 08:19 AM	#4
Biggles Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweden (I'm not a Viking...) Posts: 3,528 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I think it was made for a History Channel Battle of Britain program. I've seen it before, that's all I know, and it ain't real, that's for sure. __________________

04-06-08, 08:40 AM	#5
Steel_Tomb Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cambridgeshire - UK Posts: 1,128 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Not real. No real sense of dogfighting tactics. The spit at the front made no real attempt to escape, in RL he would have started a turning fight with the 109's breaking hard to create BFM problems you simply don't fly straight and level like that. The creator obviously doesn't have much idea of what its like in a dogfight! When the spit jumps in the middle of the formation made me laugh, yeah I'll stop infront of him. If you were to do that you would make a deflection shot and bug out not hang around to get shot. Poor stuff really. __________________ _______________________________________________ System Spec: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz \| 4Gb Corsair XMS2 Dominator DDR2 PC-2 6400 RAM \| XFX GeForce 8800GTS 640mb PCI-E \| Creative X-fi sound card \| 250Gb HDD \| *Rest In Peace Dave, you will be missed.*

04-06-08, 01:11 AM	#2
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Clearly not real. Doesn't even require much thought. Probably from some history channel show.

04-06-08, 05:35 AM	#3
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Yes, not real. It was done for some show.

04-06-08, 09:07 AM	#6
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Do YOU know how it was in a real dogfight? The cockpits were pretty darn tight, it was hard to see back. In Mike Spick's book "Luftwaffe Fighter Aces", there's a reallife story of a one 109 shooting down I think it was 4 or 3 Hurricanes all flying in a big formation and nobody noticed a thing. Alot of mistakes were made with the younger pilots, I could very well see that kind of stuff happen.