Climate Change

[artao]

I can see that with Skybird on the scene (happy belated birthday, btw) I really don't need to add much if anything, but ...
The whole "follow the money" argument is, to me, laughable at best. Follow the money indeed!! And where will you end up? Staring dead-eyed at the polluting industries that ultimately got us where we are in the first place. They stand to lose HUGE swaths of money, and will do anything (not 'just about' anything, but ANYTHING period) to discredit climate change so their pockets stay packed.
All I really need is my own senses to see and feel that climate change IS happening, right now. Winter in Wisconsin is NOT what it used to be, even 15 years ago. It used to be late October thru early March, now it's become December to mid-February ... I can already smell spring in the air ...
I like to say that it's not worth risking our planet for a few bucks, even if there's only a small chance climate change is real .... and IMO there's no denying, realistically, that is IS INDEED real ...

[August]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

My brother in law is eating buffalo burgers now. He said the meat is fantastic. Not sure if I can try it myself.

You should. The brand we use, Great Range, tastes better than top grade hamburger and only has 2 grams of saturated fat per 1/4lb.

[Reece]

Well eventually the carbon fuel supplies will run out and the world will breath a sigh of relief!! Now, how to fix the ozone layer so I can get a good sun tan and not sun burnt!!!!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by artao

I can see that with Skybird on the scene (happy belated birthday, btw) I really don't need to add much if anything, but ...
The whole "follow the money" argument is, to me, laughable at best. Follow the money indeed!! And where will you end up? Staring dead-eyed at the polluting industries that ultimately got us where we are in the first place. They stand to lose HUGE swaths of money, and will do anything (not 'just about' anything, but ANYTHING period) to discredit climate change so their pockets stay packed.

All I really need is my own senses to see and feel that climate change IS happening, right now. Winter in Wisconsin is NOT what it used to be, even 15 years ago. It used to be late October thru early March, now it's become December to mid-February ... I can already smell spring in the air ...
I like to say that it's not worth risking our planet for a few bucks, even if there's only a small chance climate change is real .... and IMO there's no denying, realistically, that is IS INDEED real ...

I agree, but even I have to admit that climate science did not do itself a good service to allow getting political itself. That is something quite some scientists complain about the IPCC report, even those forming the huge majority thinking GW is real and man-made - they point out that the IPCC not only presented scientific data and conclusions, but tried to push it's own agenda of what it thinks politically should be done. But this is not a scientist's job. Doing so is a basic sin for every science, damaging objectivity, precision, and trustworthiness. It massively increases the probability for interest conflicts in science.

Like you, I think the current winter means not much, and I compare the seasons 30 years ago during my schooldays with the present, as well as comparing on ancient photos the conditions of given landscapes and glaciers 60, 80, 100 years ago, with images from the present, and then I do not need any scientific debate wether or not a massive warming has taken place or not - it is as clear and undeniable as the sky is blue and the sun is bright. also undeiable is that chnage in plant'S yearly growth cycles (their "spirng clock ticks around 2 weeks earlier now), or the spreading patterns of given species species, especially insects, as well as infectous pathogenes. If a given life form depends on a certain minimum temperature to surive, and after 40 years if being found 1000 miles north of the area where it was located before becasue more north to it it could not survive back then, tahn that area north obviously has chnaged and has become warmer.

But the need to examine observations scientifically and produce data in order to give politicians a basis on which to form educated decisions, remains. And this effort has been damaged in a very stupid and unneeded way. In a project of the size of the IPCC reports you cannot expect to totally wipe out human error that may find manifestation in simple typos aor exchanging two numbers behind the decimal. The scandal lies in the obvious attempts to manipulate and dramatise (like the Himalaya glacier "thesis"), or the very sloppy work being done when just copying from a student'S years old diploma thesis, or copying over an article from an advertisement booklet of the WWF without checking the claims in it scientifically by themselves. This is not human error, but in case of the first: intention, in case of the latter: sloppy work that easily could have been avoided. And unfortunately, there have more such problems become known in the past weeks. these things do not reverse the tone of the scientific debate nor do they completely nullify the consent in arguments, but they do an irrationally big damage to repuation and credibility, increasing it beyond the matter-of-fact damage the events itself really mean. Currently, all this together means a feast for sceptics. Not becasue they suddenly have better arguments (they have not), but because the crowd in the streets is not ticking rationally and thus can be influenced by the kind of propaganda sceptics have been spread since years, with hundreds of millions being spend into it every year by organised lobbies whose only inention is not to find scientific truth, but to discredit the GW science and it'S current conclusions, no matter how.

It is highly questionable to me, if scientific projects of the size of the IPCC board make any sense at all., and can ever fulfill the expectations that are put into them.

Global Warming?
Bring it on, baby!

Skybird, happy b-day!

What's with the cigarettes? Are they a gift? That's not right, especially for a b-day present.

[Safe-Keeper]

In other news, there were five less traffic accidents this month than last month. This means that in a year, there will be no traffic accidents whatsoever.



( )

[Safe-Keeper]

Oh, and DRM!

[Reece]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Oh, and DRM!

Yes that is a HOT topic, but I'm not going there or I will burn up!! The debate on global warming is heated enough!!

[AngusJS]

A good take on the Daily Mail article. Not exactly a shining example of journalistic integrity.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

In other news, there were five less traffic accidents this month than last month. This means that in a year, there will be no traffic accidents whatsoever.



( )

See... only 30 years

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by August

And what effect exactly did the extinction of a couple species of birds have on the worlds climate?

Oh and I had extinct buffalo steaks this weekend. hmmm hmmm good!

I think his point is that man can make sweeping changes to nature. And it is a valid point, imo. I bet there were arguements over shooting buffaloes... "You keep shooting them, they will all be gone." "Pft, there's too many, that could never happen."

I see that point, but it may not necessarily mean that man is changing the climate. That's still unproven.

PS: Happy birthday, Marc

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I see that point, but it may not necessarily mean that man is changing the climate. That's still unproven.

Not according to most of the scientific community, and virtually all of the relevant scientific community. Its about as conclusively proven as it ever is possible in science. We don't know what exactly is going on to the minute detail in perfect clarity, but we know something is going on and have a pretty good idea of the mechanics behind it.

Anyhow I recommend the series of videos potholer54 is doing on Climate Change. It is very well done and solidly based on the actual research from the scientific community. He also does an excellent job systematically debunking all the counter arguments against it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer...F0994AFB057BB8

[Lionclaw]

It's a bit frustrating when it's going back and forth with "there's global warming", "there's no global warming" by so called "experts", my skepticism for the whole thing grows as time goes.

And in the end I only feel like: F**k 'em, let those people battle it out while I try to live my life.


I usually stay out of these kind of discussions but I felt I had to get it out. I'm sure others feel the same as I do, or not... Doesn't matter, as everyone's different... In their own ways.



Lemon curry?!

[August]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I think his point is that man can make sweeping changes to nature. And it is a valid point, imo. I bet there were arguements over shooting buffaloes... "You keep shooting them, they will all be gone." "Pft, there's too many, that could never happen."

But you know it didn't happen. Buffaloes continue to abide (and they remain quite tasty!).

I see that point, but it may not necessarily mean that man is changing the climate. That's still unproven.

Well yeah, but his point was in mocking reference to a quote that I had posted:

"Man is driven by his ego and finds it impossible to think even the weather is not all about him."

Now I don't really see how that statement has anything to do with the worlds Dodo, buffalo or passenger pigeon populations or nature in general, do you? Am I not understanding something here?