[REL] C3-class cargo ship

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

• at the time of destruction, its parts appeared much higher than water and fell from above, then I twisted the values in the .sim file and the parts the ships stopped “bouncing”

What values? This is also the case with almost all stock gr2 ships in SH5. When catastrophic explosion occurs, they'll just bounce of the water and then fall down...

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

Problems with understanding the mechanics of GR2EditorViewer. I'm just learning to use it. I can't use its menu functionality:

• Create a new bone
• Remove a bone that has a mesh inside it
• To bind any bone to the "World" : parent (-1)

You can't "create" any bone from scratch, but you can clone existing bones.
As I said in my previous post here, this feature is buggy in the latest version of GR2 Editor; nonetheless bone-cloning can be performed with one of the previous versions of the program that I have linked in the same post.

You can't simply remove a bone with a mesh inside it.
If you have redundant bones/meshes, the best way to deal with them is either replacing them with a basic mesh (a simple triangle is okay) and setting them as invisible, or further separating your main model so that you can import the separated parts in place of the redundant meshes.

You can't bind any bone to the 'world'.
If you need to import a number of individual models in the same GR2 file (a series of equipment items for example), the way to go is choosing as template a stock GR2 file with a similar number of world-bound bones.
Bone/model number is not the only criterion to be followed though. Not all the stock files have support for AO, specular and normal maps. GR2 Editor can detect these limitations on loading a file and, in theory, it will let the used to choose whether he wants to add the extended data for some of the missing maps. Nonetheless this feature has never been 100% reliable for me, so you better make sure that you choose a native GR2 file with all the needed maps

[Rosomaha]

Originally Posted by gap

You can't "create" any bone from scratch, but you can clone existing bones.
As I said in my previous post here, this feature is buggy in the latest version of GR2 Editor; nonetheless bone-cloning can be performed with one of the previous versions of the program that I have linked in the same post.

You can't simply remove a bone with a mesh inside it.
If you have redundant bones/meshes, the best way to deal with them is either replacing them with a basic mesh (a simple triangle is okay) and setting them as invisible, or further separating your main model so that you can import the separated parts in place of the redundant meshes.

You can't bind any bone to the 'world'.
If you need to import a number of individual models in the same GR2 file (a series of equipment items for example), the way to go is choosing as template a stock GR2 file with a similar number of world-bound bones.
Bone/model number is not the only criterion to be followed though. Not all the stock files have support for AO, specular and normal maps. GR2 Editor can detect these limitations on loading a file and, in theory, it will let the used to choose whether he wants to add the extended data for some of the missing maps. Nonetheless this feature has never been 100% reliable for me, so you better make sure that you choose a native GR2 file with all the needed maps

Wonderful! Excellent! Great!... It'sm just bursting with optimism!!

Originally Posted by vdr1981

[/LIST] What values? This is also the case with almost all stock gr2 ships in SH5. When catastrophic explosion occurs, they'll just bounce of the water and then fall down...

I only remember changing these parameters at the time:

• Guys, please remind me what this is and what is responsible for: Islands=xxxxx in the xxx.cfg file?
  
  
• @gap, perhaps you know: Registration of additional diffuse textures (_T02, _T03...) in SH5 works similarly as in SH4? I added everything, and registered it in the Roster too, but I have never seen the options yet.

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

• Guys, please remind me what this is and what is responsible for: Islands=xxxxx in the xxx.cfg file?

Those are filters for in game recognition manual (SOAN).

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

Wonderful! Excellent! Great!... It'sm just bursting with optimism!!

Well, think of GR2 file editing as an obstacle course. On the first try, only the most resolute modders can reach to the end, but once one gets to know all the tricky points, the whole process becomes much easier.

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

Guys, please remind me what this is and what is responsible for: Islands=xxxxx in the xxx.cfg file?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Those are filters for in game recognition manual (SOAN).

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

@gap, perhaps you know: Registration of additional diffuse textures (_T02, _T03...) in SH5 works similarly as in SH4? I added everything, and registered it in the Roster too, but I have never seen the options yet.

Yes, the same way

[Rosomaha]

Fixed:
Effects of damage-destruction, their placement on the ship's doll. Added some new textures. The flag is offset. Registered for random cargo cargo K01, K02, K03.

Added objects: weapon platforms and cargo elements for mutual substitution at an early stage of the war. Objects and their registration in the ship's equipment:

 

@GrenSo, @kapuhy, @vdr1981, @the beast, @gap, ...

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

Fixed:
Effects of damage-destruction, their placement on the ship's doll. Added some new textures. The flag is offset. Registered for random cargo cargo K01, K02, K03.

Added objects: weapon platforms and cargo elements for mutual substitution at an early stage of the war. Objects and their registration in the ship's equipment:

 

Truly magnificent work Rosomaha!

[Rosomaha]

And a few screenshots:

 

[gap]

@ Rosomaha

Awesome work mate!

[Demon777]

@Rosomaha

Thanks for your amazing work!! The ship is cool.
I'll test updated C3-Cargo in TWOS 2.2.18. May I use the link you provided on the 2nd page of this thread, or there will be a newer version?

[vdr1981]

I wanted to test new files but it seems that my motherboard have died again...
Anyway, here's what you can do for a quick testing...

Start new Western Approaches campaign using silentotto cheat and exit to main menu. Then enter the museum and go trough the entire British and German roster but skip new C3 ship. After you're done with units rendering jump to previously skipped c3 . If game CTD then something is wrong with c3 controllers and they have to be re-saved in goblin.

[Rosomaha]

Originally Posted by Demon777

I'll test updated C3-Cargo in TWOS 2.2.18. May I use the link you provided on the 2nd page of this thread, or there will be a newer version?

The most recent update is in the first post of this topic, everything is new there, the link is green DOWNLOAD. Use it.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Start new Western Approaches campaign using silentotto cheat and exit to main menu. Then enter the museum and go trough the entire British and German roster but skip new C3 ship. After you're done with units rendering jump to previously skipped c3 . If game CTD then something is wrong with c3 controllers and they have to be re-saved in goblin.

All the files this time I went through in the final save through GoblinEditor. And the new added ones were created at all in it. I tested at the Museum many times - everything fine. At least in the sh5 stock I never had a CTD.

The new version NKC3 has changed the composition of the textures. Maybe it can affect? And TWoS have are more countries with NKC3 than USA & GB.

[kapuhy]

Hi Rosomaha,

There's one thing I noticed you did in your unit and I'm very interested how did you do that, as it gives me a lot of trouble with my ships.

All bone names in your unit start with NKC3_ClassShips, which means you've changed their names from unit you used as a template. TDW's GR2Editor allows to do that, but when I change name of a bone, all controllers attached to it display "lost controllers" error in Goblin and have to be deleted and remade from scratch, which is horribly time consuming. Did you perhaps manage to find a simpler way for changing names without remaking all controllers?

In my units I didn't change bone names and this appeared to work fine, but I noticed that when I got to editing FX file, the modified unit still uses FX file of template unit - I suspect unchanged node names are at fault.

[gap]

Hi kapuhy,

Rosomaha might have a better answer, but while you wait for his feedback here are my two cents: unlike dat-format nodes, granny bones get their Id calculated automatically from their name. Changing bone names means changing their Id's as well; that's why, after doing that, you usually get a bunch of 'lost controllers'
If memory serves, TDW tried investigating the routine used by devs for bone Id assignment but he didn't find any way to predict a bone Id from its name. Nonetheless you can grasp that information from Goblin Editor. When you select a bone in the scene tree and you choose 'Edit Controllers' from its pop-up menu (called by RMB click), in the title bar of the following window you get the bone name, i.e. Torpedo_Mk14, and two hex numbers in the format 2156E929 : 53114C2E. The actual bone Id (as it would be displayed by S3d) can be obtained by the combination of those two number in reverse order. In the example above: 0x53114c2e2156e929

[Rosomaha]

Hi kapuhy.

Working with SH5 units is a lot of combinations of various tricks that come with experience. C3 - became my first mod-experience in SH5. I was interested to know whether it is possible to assemble a home-made unit that is fully functional and identical to the original SH5 with an accessible set of tools. Yes, it turned out to be possible, with some nuances, but it is possible. I think it’s even possible to assemble a new game submarine, at least type 2, with other boats it will be more difficult since need to solve issues with animated details. There is only one big “but”: making a unit is a very big job, and a submarine will be just titanic work.
Back to the topic. I did not use any one specific method. In the course of work, I tried and used different methods.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

All bone names in your unit start with NKC3_ClassShips, which means you've changed their names from unit you used as a template. TDW's GR2Editor allows to do that, but when I change name of a bone, all controllers attached to it display "lost controllers" error in Goblin and have to be deleted and remade from scratch, which is horribly time consuming. Did you perhaps manage to find a simpler way for changing names without remaking all controllers?

Yes, I used template in Hex with called NKC3_ClassShips. TDW's GR2Editor changes component names for a long time. At the very beginning, I used Hex-editing a bit, for example, to reassign tags of all names at once, it was not a good idea, I had several broken files at the beginning of work. Although editing in Hex is always a working option and opens up additional possibilities in editing various files. But in order to work with this correctly, you need a full understanding of what you are doing and the file format you are working with.

Something that will somehow help you reduce your time is the” magic " Ctrl-C + Ctrl-V, & etc.
Yes. the most difficult process here will be files .fx , and as a rule, the larger the ship (unit), the more individual FX elements it contains.

So. I think here for many suitable method “dat-twin”:

[1] Build in S3D in the .dat file -“Skeleton” - a copy of the file xxxship _FX. GR2 (the donor ship from SH5 “xxxship”), all we need is the linked order of all Nodes the same as bones in _fx.GR2. The names can be copied directly from GoblinEditor.

[2] the Next step is to assign all nodes in the “Skeleton” ID-numbers the same as in the original “xxxship”.

This will take you a lot of work at the beginning, but then you can easily get the desired order of all completed ObjectCtrlsRef for your new unit. And this is less work than re-creating them again.

Which method you use to extract the source IDs - is purely your choice, & depending on the personal skills of working in certain programs.

As mentioned by @gap: the original IDs are visible in the GoblinEditor.
The ID is in S3D in Parent id. Let me remind you: files .fx can also be opened in S3D, as I have already described here: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=227910
also ID in files when working with Hex-programs:



It is also useful to understand what the components are .fx have an order, sometimes it can be reversed, but it is there and corresponds to the structure of elements :



So. You have made a dat-"Skeleton" of the sh5 source, with all the source IDs (save, do not forget to make backup copies of your intermediate work files, this may come in handy)

[3] You can now import the “donor” (fx) file to our .dat [by setting it an extension readable by S3D]. (File->import-> Dat file). This way we will already have controllers filled with values. They must be installed directly in the element to which they belong.

[4] If everything is in its place - RENAME the main elements of the skeleton as in your NEW unit-save .dat.

[5] Then open this .dat. in GoblinEditor – for .dat has the “Save file with Granny IDs " function. This useful function makes a clean extraction of controllers from the .dat. file, setting them the desired Granny Ids based on the names of the component elements.

 

The <xxx.dat.GrannyIDs> file is saved. Leave the file extension .dat - now you have a .dat file with the composition of the group of controllers with your names NEW Ids, you can do the rest from it: .sim .val .zon and .fx including. And don't forget to re-save it all to GoblinEditor at the end.

Theoretically, this dat - "Skeleton" can be used as a template in the future for other similar ships with a similar number of fx, if we accept that the same composition of effects will be used. Only then will it be necessary to customize the names in _FX.GR2 to the template, or something like that.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

In my units I didn't change bone names and this appeared to work fine, but I noticed that when I got to editing FX file, the modified unit still uses FX file of template unit - I suspect unchanged node names are at fault.

Yes. This will happen if you do not change the names of internal blocks in the ships.. For now I think that's all on this issue from my part.

A little more. I looked at your ship files. I think you will find the following information useful for creating .dds textures and the correct formats used in SH5:

AO: 
Format                     RGB8888
Compressed Format          DXT1
Mip-Levels                 11(1024x1024) / Generated
Alpha=No


Diffuse:
Format                     RGB8888
Compressed Format          DXT5
Mip-Levels                 11(1024x1024) / Generated
Compressed Bits per pixel  8.0
Alpha=Yes (#if specular)


Normal:
Format                     RGB8888
Compressed Format          DXT1
Mip-Levels                 11(1024x1024) / Generated
Compressed Bits per pixel  8.0
Alpha=No


_sil:
Format                     RGB8888
Compressed Format          DXT5
Mip-Levels                 1 / No Mip maps
Compressed Bits per pixel  8.0
Alpha=Yes (#if opacity)