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Old 08-01-2020, 03:04 PM   #1
Bubblehead1980
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Default Boy...do we need FM sonar

TMO 2.5 + my various tweaks such as late war depth charges, traffic etc

100 realism, except external camera on this time.


In the middle of my likely final patrol (10th overall) in USS Dace. Started in January 1944 out of Fremantle. Transferred to Pearl Harbor in January 1945. Now June 45, assigned to patrol Sea of Japan. Added AI US subs to be in the SOJ as well, giving a representation of "Operation Barney" in 1945. Transited the Tsushima Straits. Done this years back, but on surface at night to avoid the mines.

Now, the straits have local air patrols with radar, making a surface passage nearly impossible. I entered submerged, and since we don't have FM sonar in the game, I would periodically check the external cam. Definitely came very close to some mines, had to make slight course adjustment to avoid one very close one which would have exploded. Found a safe depth where it seems the mines were not set and even though came close to more, was able to transit safely.

While rather nerve racking, transiting the strait at only 32 time compression and only checking near the sub(such as FM sonar would only give "Hells Bells" if mine was near) it did add an intensity level to the sim. Especially since with my mine mod, one mine will sink you. No more of the hitting a mine and surviving bs leftover from stock.


Having said all of that, if a modder has an idea for making an FM sonar for the boats, would be a great thing. I recall someone tried years ago but it failed since making every mine emit a noise (like a ship) was causing CTD for everyone since overwhelmed the sim. Now with 4G patch and all may work better. Perhaps could make another mine, one that emits noise, put a few of them, then the regular SH 4 mines, at minimum would let player know they found a minefield. Mines are mostly a non factor in SH 4 but were a real threat, big omission. One of those things the devs left out and still irritates me.

Also, the Tsushima minefields are are bit too easy to transit, will be updating them in future. Won't be impossible, but more difficult. Below are some screenshots.











Last edited by Bubblehead1980; 08-01-2020 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 08-01-2020, 06:36 PM   #2
KaleunMarco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
TMO 2.5 + my various tweaks such as late war depth charges, traffic etc

100 realism, except external camera on this time.


In the middle of my likely final patrol (10th overall) in USS Dace. Started in January 1944 out of Fremantle. Transferred to Pearl Harbor in January 1945. Now June 45, assigned to patrol Sea of Japan. Added AI US subs to be in the SOJ as well, giving a representation of "Operation Barney" in 1945. Transited the Tsushima Straits. Done this years back but on surface at night to avoid the mines.

Now, the straits have local air patrols with radar, making a surface passage nearly impossible. I entered submerged . Since we don't have FM sonar in the game I would periodically check the external cam. Definitely came very close to some mines, had to make slight course adjustment to avoid one. Found a safe depth where it seems the mines were not set and even though came close to more, was able to transit safely.

While rather never racking, transiting the strait at only 32 time compression and only checking near the sub(such as FM sonar would only give "Hells Bells" if mine was near, it did add an intensity level to the sim. Especially since with my mine mod, one mod will sink you. No more of the hitting a mine and surviving bs leftover from stock.


Having said all of that, if some modder has an idea for making an FM sonar for the boats, would be a great thing. I recall someone tried years ago but it failed since making every mine emit a noise (like a ship) was causing CTD for everyone since overwhelmed the sim. Now with 4G patch and all may work better. Perhaps could make another time, one that emits noise, put a few of them, then the regular SH 4 mines, at minimum would let player know they found a minefield. Mines are mostly a non factor in SH 4 but were a real threat, big omission. One of those things the devs left out and still irritates me.

Also, the Tsushima minefields are are bit too easy to transit, will be updating them in future. Won't be impossible, but more difficult. Below are some screenshots.
so you transited the mined straits using the external camera?
that's gutsy!
and you want to make it harder? are you mad?
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:09 PM   #3
Macgregor the Hammer
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That would be a challenge to program! The QLA-1 FM set was available toward the end of 1944. It was developed by the University of California Division of War Research. It used a PPI, a progressive frequency sweep and used the Doppler effect based on the sub's movement. It was really a piece of art for it's day.

How you would introduce this into Silent Hunter is way above my pay grade!

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Old 08-01-2020, 10:35 PM   #4
Bubblehead1980
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Originally Posted by KaleunMarco View Post
so you transited the mined straits using the external camera?
that's gutsy!
and you want to make it harder? are you mad?


I did transit the mined straits by checking the external camera within close proximity, which allowed me to do what FM sonar would do essentially. I also plotted the minefield on the map as progressed in case can't exit via La Perouse Strait, or Tsugaru Strait as planned (both mined, narrow, and heavily patrolled as well) , I know the way out.

Some subs were actually assigned not to enter Sea of Japan, but to plot the minefields using FM. USS Seahorse is one I recall, was almost lost on that patrol also when ran into some top notch patrol vessels.

Lol well I like the challenge and its a major element missing from late war in SH 4. Would also like a less time consuming way to detect mines as well than to run at 32x time compression and check the external cam. . Would be intense to transit the strait with FM sonar and external cam off, have the game slow like when make a radar or visual contact.
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:41 PM   #5
Bubblehead1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macgregor the Hammer View Post
That would be a challenge to program! The QLA-1 FM set was available toward the end of 1944. It was developed by the University of California Division of War Research. It used a PPI, a progressive frequency sweep and used the Doppler effect based on the sub's movement. It was really a piece of art for it's day.

How you would introduce this into Silent Hunter is way above my pay grade!


I agree, fascinating piece of equipment for the time. Doubt we could get a visual display in the sim, unless perhaps setting the SJ radar's depth from 0 meters to say -90 etc, but then how to get it to turn on, how to get the mines to show up on the screen when under water?


As I mentioned, years back someone developed a working FM sonar mod. The mines were made to emit a noise audible via the sonar stack, it was distinct from standard ship contacts. I recall it worked in a training mission but if you had multiple mines, such as in a minefield, it caused the game to slow and eventually a CTD. Perhaps would work better now with the 4gb patch, LAA, and all.

If not, perhaps create a new mine, one the emits, could place one in front of the "normal " mine field or have it overlap. Would at least let player know there are mines.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:03 AM   #6
Macgregor the Hammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
I agree, fascinating piece of equipment for the time. Doubt we could get a visual display in the sim, unless perhaps setting the SJ radar's depth from 0 meters to say -90 etc, but then how to get it to turn on, how to get the mines to show up on the screen when under water?


As I mentioned, years back someone developed a working FM sonar mod. The mines were made to emit a noise audible via the sonar stack, it was distinct from standard ship contacts. I recall it worked in a training mission but if you had multiple mines, such as in a minefield, it caused the game to slow and eventually a CTD. Perhaps would work better now with the 4gb patch, LAA, and all.

If not, perhaps create a new mine, one the emits, could place one in front of the "normal " mine field or have it overlap. Would at least let player know there are mines.
Doing a little data mining, I found this document: https://maritime.org/doc/sonar/chap14.htm

The projector had a 'searchlight' function. Reading the document a little further, much of it's behavior was identical to the SJ radar. Thinking about it, the SJ radar could be used as the model for the sonar.
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