Freedom

mapuc · 05-27-20, 04:56 PM

Due to laws and regulation in our countries we live in

I say Freedom is almost a Fatamorgana.

What do you say, do you have the freedom you wish you had ?
(Meaning that you can do as you feel free to do -like driving 80 mph downtown passing several red lights a.s.o)

Freedom is as I see it, the right to chose between a few option without breaking some laws(here I'm thinking written laws, unwritten laws and you own limit)or regulations.

That's the only freedom we have.

Markus

Platapus · 05-27-20, 05:33 PM

I would not want to live in a culture where there was absolute freedom.

Like in most things, moderation is the key.

The problem is that people can't define what moderation is in this context.

mapuc · 05-27-20, 05:36 PM

The reason to this thread was what one of you wrote in our US-Politics thread.

Give me Freedom or give me death.

Which made me wonder.

How much freedom do we exactly have.

And as I wrote
I say freedom is almost a Fatamorgana.

Markus

Reece · 05-27-20, 06:05 PM

You have to have laws because of sin or the place would be chaos (hell), for example should we be free to kill or steal?

But human rights on the other hand. . .

Texas Red · 05-27-20, 07:27 PM

We don't have complete freedom, just bigger prisons.

Skybird · 05-27-20, 08:10 PM

Many states were founded - or say so in their foundign documents and basic laws - to somewhat organise and allow an idealistic maximum of freedoms and civil rights for the individual. But unavoidably, every state, no matter the government system, more and more changes into a tyranny. The reasons for this are different in case of a democracy and an authoritarian dictatorship, but the status in the end is the same and always will be the same. A state always is the self-fulfilling prophecy of a failure that it claims it wants to prevent, while it lives only by actively pushing it.

Skweetis · 05-27-20, 10:16 PM

The freedom we live in is not freedom to. Its freedom from.

Freedom to do what I want, is not the same thing as the freedom I have from other peoples bull****.

I'd rather be free from getting killed by a drunk driver, rather than the personal freedom of being able to drive drunk.

I live in Canada. I feel I'm pretty free to do the things I want to do. I'm not restricted in where I go (current global circumstances aside), I can freely criticize or praise my governments as I see fit. I can speak my mind freely with all the social consequences that comes with.

But none of that ever concerned me really. The greatest freedom I ever felt was the day my mortgage was paid, and I was free of debt, except for the debts I chose (which haven't been many).

THAT was freedom. Being able to say '**** you' at my job and still own a roof over my head, have a vehicle that's paid for, have a full belly and make the rest of my ends meet easily? That's freedom as far as I'm concerned.

My kids, and especially grandkids? Yeah, they're gonna be ****ed.

But I'm free to help them anyway I can. So yeah, even with Covid, I'd still say I'm the freest I've ever been.

Platapus · 05-28-20, 06:11 AM

I have heard that Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose

Jimbuna · 05-28-20, 10:11 AM

Freedom within certain limits that don't impinge on the freedoms of others.

Platapus · 05-28-20, 12:39 PM

A few years ago, in my doctorate studies, I read an interesting article on how Freedom and Equality really are not compatible. Yet those two terms are often used together. The author brought up some interesting insights that I had not considered.

mapuc · 05-28-20, 04:50 PM

Then there is personal freedom-which also is limit to the law and regulation in a persons country and a persons own limit.

Which made me remember a discussion I once had with a friend.

We discussed what would be best taking the buss to the job or our car.

My friend said

I like the freedom in driving my own car and do as I feel fit for
(something like that)

I said
Well this freedom is very limited I would instead say you have option within the traffic laws and regulation.

You have the freedom to choose when you will start you car and where you like to go. Even here you freedom is limit if there something wrong with you car, which makes it illegal to drive it.

And I have read and heard this many, many times.

I like the freedom in driving my own car.

Markus

August · 05-28-20, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I have heard that Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose

Nothing don't mean nothing if it ain't free.

Platapus · 05-29-20, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Nothing don't mean nothing if it ain't free.

And, feelin' good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues

05-27-20, 04:56 PM	#1
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,870 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Freedom Due to laws and regulation in our countries we live in I say Freedom is almost a Fatamorgana. What do you say, do you have the freedom you wish you had ? (Meaning that you can do as you feel free to do -like driving 80 mph downtown passing several red lights a.s.o) Freedom is as I see it, the right to chose between a few option without breaking some laws(here I'm thinking written laws, unwritten laws and you own limit)or regulations. That's the only freedom we have. Markus

05-27-20, 05:33 PM	#2
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,946 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I would not want to live in a culture where there was absolute freedom. Like in most things, moderation is the key. The problem is that people can't define what moderation is in this context. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

05-27-20, 06:05 PM	#4
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 32,735 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	You have to have laws because of sin or the place would be chaos (hell), for example should we be free to kill or steal? But human rights on the other hand. . . __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

05-27-20, 07:27 PM	#5
Texas Red Fastest Gun Around Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Agua Fira, New Mexico Posts: 2,376 Downloads: 527 Uploads: 5	We don't have complete freedom, just bigger prisons. __________________ There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure. — Colin Powell I'm not very active on the forums anymore. If you have a question, please DM me and I'll respond ASAP!

05-27-20, 08:10 PM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,486 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Many states were founded - or say so in their foundign documents and basic laws - to somewhat organise and allow an idealistic maximum of freedoms and civil rights for the individual. But unavoidably, every state, no matter the government system, more and more changes into a tyranny. The reasons for this are different in case of a democracy and an authoritarian dictatorship, but the status in the end is the same and always will be the same. A state always is the self-fulfilling prophecy of a failure that it claims it wants to prevent, while it lives only by actively pushing it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-27-20, 05:36 PM	#3
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,870 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	The reason to this thread was what one of you wrote in our US-Politics thread. Give me Freedom or give me death. Which made me wonder. How much freedom do we exactly have. And as I wrote I say freedom is almost a Fatamorgana. Markus

05-27-20, 10:16 PM	#7
Skweetis Watch Officer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cambridge, Canada Posts: 335 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	The freedom we live in is not freedom to. Its freedom from. Freedom to do what I want, is not the same thing as the freedom I have from other peoples bull***. I'd rather be free from* getting killed by a drunk driver, rather than the personal freedom of being able to drive drunk. I live in Canada. I feel I'm pretty free to do the things I want to do. I'm not restricted in where I go (current global circumstances aside), I can freely criticize or praise my governments as I see fit. I can speak my mind freely with all the social consequences that comes with. But none of that ever concerned me really. The greatest freedom I ever felt was the day my mortgage was paid, and I was free of debt, except for the debts I chose (which haven't been many). THAT was freedom. Being able to say '** you' at my job and still own a roof over my head, have a vehicle that's paid for, have a full belly and make the rest of my ends meet easily? That's freedom as far as I'm concerned. My kids, and especially grandkids? Yeah, they're gonna be *ed. But I'm free to help them anyway I can. So yeah, even with Covid, I'd still say I'm the freest I've ever been. __________________ "Is the glass half-empty? Or half-full? Either way, when you're thirsty, there's water to be had in that glass." - Neal Stevens*

05-28-20, 06:11 AM	#8
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,946 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I have heard that Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

05-28-20, 10:11 AM	#9
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,120 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Freedom within certain limits that don't impinge on the freedoms of others. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

05-28-20, 12:39 PM	#10
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,946 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	A few years ago, in my doctorate studies, I read an interesting article on how Freedom and Equality really are not compatible. Yet those two terms are often used together. The author brought up some interesting insights that I had not considered. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

05-28-20, 04:50 PM	#11
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,870 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Then there is personal freedom-which also is limit to the law and regulation in a persons country and a persons own limit. Which made me remember a discussion I once had with a friend. We discussed what would be best taking the buss to the job or our car. My friend said I like the freedom in driving my own car and do as I feel fit for (something like that) I said Well this freedom is very limited I would instead say you have option within the traffic laws and regulation. You have the freedom to choose when you will start you car and where you like to go. Even here you freedom is limit if there something wrong with you car, which makes it illegal to drive it. And I have read and heard this many, many times. I like the freedom in driving my own car. Markus