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Old 10-11-2021, 08:20 PM   #16
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Default M1 Tank Platoon 2 Observations

#1. - I am playing the game without the update. At some point I intend to install the update and see what the differences are. CITV - I designate a target for the gunner and he does not engage it. I get the voice command for the gunner to acquire the target, but nothing happens.

#2. - One probably could do Bounding over watch with two platoons by setting waypoints and having them timed. It seems that would be incredibly hard and useless once contact is made, but Iíd like to actually try whatís described in the manual.

#3. - Once enemy contact is made, slow your tanks down. If you rush in, youíll all get killed.

#4. - if your down to your last tank, END IT! Shift + Q. If your platoon dies, you canít continue. This was just like the original 1989 game.

Iíve beaten both training campaigns and three of the other 5 campaigns. The Moldavia campaign is difficult because of the terrain, and Iíve lost that one.

This title has not been fully explored yet! Keep at it!!!
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
#1. - I am playing the game without the update. At some point I intend to install the update and see what the differences are.
Here are the official changes. What I have heard and remember about patch 1.2 that it had radically chaged the effectiveness of the air support. Do not remember exactly but I think it "dumbed it" or the opposite.


Quote:
===================
M1 TANK PLATOON II
Version 1.2 (Includes v1.1)
MicroProse
May 18, 1998
===================

Updates in M1 Tank Platoon II
=============================
Please Unzip the M1TP2v1-2.zip file directly into the M1 directory.

This document addresses issues from M1 Tank Platoon II, including fixed bugs, altered
controls, and new additions to the game. For further information, consult the original
M1 Tank Platoon II Readme.txt file or the FAQ at Microprose's Web Site, www.MicroProse.com.


==========================
Fixes (As of this version):
==========================
Divide Errors encountered by some players should be gone now.


========================
Fixes (From Version 1.1):
========================
CITV Target Designation - Designating targets for the gunner now functions properly in the
Tank Commander's Cockpit Screen. When designating a target in the CITV of the TC Cockpit,
the Gunner will automatically drop what he is doing and engage the enemy target.

Shooting through Forests - Now, neither friendly nor enemy vehicles will fire on targets
through forests.

Seam Removed in Glide Mode - The "seam" in the sky visible when playing in Glide mode has
been removed.

Joystick Controls Function Properly - The joystick hat will now load the selected ammo
round as per the manual. Joystick buttons 2 to 4 work according to the manual. In addition
to this, a continual button press will not bounce.

Threatening Helicopters - In this patch, helo engagements have been tweaked to stop the
truce between helos and to make the helos more of a balanced threat to tanks (and your
helos and enemy tanks).

Override Gunner Ammo Selection - Now the ammo you choose will override the computer
gunner's choice. This will not change until you relinquish control of the gunner or the
gunner has destroyed the current target.

COAX Does Not Affect Main Gun Round - You can now switch back and forth from a Main Gun
round to the COAX without having to reload the Main Gun round.

No Main Round Bursts - The Main Gun will fire one and only one Main Round at a time.

CITV Inoperable when Damaged - When the CITV is damaged, you see a blank screen in the Tank
Commander's Cockpit.

Gunner's Primary Sight Inoperable when Damaged - Just like the CITV, the GPS will be blank
if gunner or both gunner and tank commander are killed.

50 Cal. No Longer Functions when TC is Dead - If the tank commander is dead, you can no
longer manipulate the 50 cal. Machine gun.

Keyboard Commands Function Correctly - Keyboard commands (hotkeys) now work according to
the manual.

Multiplayer Fixes - The Multiplayer game is much more reliable. Synch problems have been
addressed, and the Host can no longer jump into other players' tanks. Player names are now
associated with in-game chat messages (which stay on screen much longer). Also, other
players' smoke grenades show on your screen.

Voodoo Rush Support - Voodoo Rush cards are now supported in Glide Mode.

==============================
Changes (as of this version):
==============================
When using the Primary Gunner's Sight, you will notice that the gun moves much more slowly than
in the zoomed in (x10) view then in the normal (x3) view. This will allows for better targeting
and tracking at long and medium ranges.






==========================
Changes (as of Ver 1.1) :
==========================
Damaged Tanks Pop Smoke - In this patch, both friendly and enemy vehicles will pop smoke to
cover their tracks when damaged.

Mouse/Joystick Pan Control in Chase View - Now, both the mouse and joystick control panning
in the Chase View. The joystick functions automatically, a left mouse click takes control
and a right click stops panning. (Similar to the way the GPS and Outhatch views function.)

Additional Art in the Outhatch View - The tank's hull and turret are now visible in the
TC Outhatch view, which gives the tank commander added situational awareness.

50 Cal. Movement Relative to Turret - In the patch, the 50 cal. will turn and bounce
relative to the turret and to tank movement. Pressing the [K] key will stabilize the
machine gun, like in the original game.

CITV Turret Clock Made Larger - The CITV turret clock has been enlarged and is much easier
to read.

Tank Commanders' Life Expectancy - Tank Commanders using the 50 Cal. are now more likely
to be killed by artillery and enemy fire.

More Explanatory Messages - More explanatory text messages have been added for features
such as Arrow-key Driving, Smoke Generators ON/OFF, and AIR/GROUND mode.

Interior Cockpit Views - Interior cockpit views have been altered according to the time of
day of the mission. (i.e.: In night battles, your cockpits will appear darker than during
day missions.)

=====================
Additions:
=====================
Bino View and Night Vision - Binoculars and Night Vision Goggles (NVG) have been added to
the TC Outhatch view. The [Z] and [X] keys toggle binos on and off and the [T] key toggles
Night Vision on and off.

Artillery-Delivered Smoke - Artillery-Delivered Smoke has been added for Assault missions
and Movements to Contact to cover your platoon's movement. Smoke can be called the same
way as other artillery. (High detail only.)

Hull to Gun ([Shift]-[G]) - Now, you can move your hull's position relative to the turret,
so as to provide maximum protection when engaging targets. [Shift]-[G] in the TC Outhatch
will turn the hull to the 50 Cal.'s current direction. [Shift]-[G] in the TC Cockpit will
turn the hull to the CITV's current direction.

Menu Bar Animation ON/OFF - Menu bar animations can be turned on and off in the
Configuration screen.

Contour Line Highlights in the Main Map - Pressing the [L] key will toggle contour lines
on and off. This makes viewing terrain elevation levels much easier in the Map Screen.

[Alt]-[F] Key Removes Flicker - Pressing [Alt]-[F] will remove Battleplanner/Map Screen
flicker on video cards that do not support "DDraw BlitSync" function. (With the Diamond

Joystick - Remember, if you have "drift" problems, or other control problems, please make
sure you are in the main joystick port. If you have more then one, this could cause a problem.
Viper 330, hitting [Alt]-[F] will correct Main Screen blackout.)
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
CITV - I designate a target for the gunner and he does not engage it. I get the voice command for the gunner to acquire the target, but nothing happens.
Keep the mouse button depressed on the target until Gunner fires the gun.
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Old 10-11-2021, 10:43 PM   #19
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Icon14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polak2 View Post
Keep the mouse button depressed on the target until Gunner fires the gun.
That would explain it! Iím not using the mouse in the game for anything except the F8 outside view at the beginning of every mission.

Iíll experiment with that and look at the manual again. Maybe holding the joystick trigger down would also work. Iíll check it out, thanks.
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Old 10-12-2021, 05:40 AM   #20
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It also may have to do with the changes patch M1TPv1.2 introduced .1st paragraph
Quote:
========================
Fixes (From Version 1.1):
========================
CITV Target Designation - Designating targets for the gunner now functions properly in the
Tank Commander's Cockpit Screen. When designating a target in the CITV of the TC Cockpit,
the Gunner will automatically drop what he is doing and engage the enemy target.
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Old 10-12-2021, 03:49 PM   #21
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What has been said about designating the target from CITV in Search or Hunter Killer mode appears to be indeed not working. Patch 1.2 despite the claim that it was corrected did not really help. That part is buggy and requires some further study. Page 34 in the manual to go by the book.

Note: it works sometimes but I cannot pinpoint really when.
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Old 10-13-2021, 03:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polak2 View Post
What has been said about designating the target from CITV in Search or Hunter Killer mode appears to be indeed not working. Patch 1.2 despite the claim that it was corrected did not really help. That part is buggy and requires some further study. Page 34 in the manual to go by the book.

Note: it works sometimes but I cannot pinpoint really when.
Copy that, thanks. Iíve been playing computer games since the early Ď80s and noticed thereís a pattern or method to winning almost every game.

In Mechwarrior 2, for example, you could beat the game with the smallest mech by circling your enemy as fast as possible while shooting at them. It got to the point where I could take down any enemy mech while they couldnít hit me.

In Armored Fist, 1994, as another example, there are procedures that if followed, will allow you to win every mission. Pause at the beginning of every mission and set platoons to Experienced, Wedge formation, Slow, and Road March. If any enemy armor is encountered, lock on it, call for arty, face toward it, pop smoke, then back up to cover. The game is not realistic so arty kills all tanks.

I havenít quite figured out M1TP2 yet. I will be successful when Iíve beaten every campaign and every single mission on hard mode. Right now, Iím still learning the game.

This may take a while.

Iím sure youíve seen these articles:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020301...1tp2strat.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20020825.../m1clhard.html

If not, theyíre good reading. I seriously cannot believe itís been 20 years! I do remember these discussions - especially the hate for Hasbro for canceling the Tank Platoon and Gunship sequels. Seems like yesterday to me.


No matter - this software was great in 1999 and still is in 2021!!!

If thereís a way to record gameplay within Win98, Iíll give it a try for uploading to YouTube. Maybe An early version of Fraps would work. Worst case, Iíll just record the monitor.

Iíll keep you guys posted on the progress!
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Old 10-13-2021, 04:36 AM   #23
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So I think I have cracked this CITV problem.
1st, I think, patch M1TP2 v1.2 is needed as they addressed this problem in the code.

2nd of course be in the Search mode key "]" and have CITV on

3rd is to issue Fire At Will "F" order before each shooting session as it sometimes defaults to Hold Fire for unknown to me yet reasons.

Then interesting part is also to issue type of the weapon order as the Gunner prefers to waste MPAT and STAFF for even near targets.

Indeed I agree, that having ample time and opportunity to study each game reveals sometimes richer gameplay and nice interesting secrets. In fact, I may even suggest that pressed by duties of RL we often have been (and still are) running from game to game without even dipping deeper in them which is a total loss to us and perhaps really a waste of time. After all very smart people created those games and simulations and I am sure they did not spare their efforts and ingenuity to make them smart too.

Keep rolling!
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Old 10-13-2021, 04:42 AM   #24
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Also...
knowing and understanding the manual (in this case of CITV page 34 ) is the key
Quote:
If
the current target is out of range or cannot be shot at immediately for any
other reason, the gun will engage the new designated target. You must
hold the CITV on the target until the gun is laid on. In this mode, the firing
data is not available, with the exception of the READY TO FIRE box, which
lights to indicate the gun is on the designated target and the CITV is free
to search again.
Although...
Actually, take sometimes manual with a grain of salt.
The link from Wayback Machine with supporting strategy tips and articles is super and truly solves any ambiguities between a manual, currently installed game patches and action.
Here is about CITV truly a key document without which one of the most crucial and important to the gameplay TC station may be misunderstood and in jeopardy!

M1TP2 Combat Lesson:
Using the CITV
by David Webster

https://web.archive.org/web/20020319.../m1clcitv.html

Last edited by Polak2; 10-13-2021 at 05:09 AM.
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Old 10-13-2021, 05:51 PM   #25
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Few screenshots from training mission Glide with dgVoodo2. Not too shabby for this old Girl!






https://ibb.co/KcZRGRd
https://ibb.co/bPD1VDn
https://ibb.co/jVkvMR8


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Old 10-13-2021, 08:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polak2 View Post
Few screenshots from training mission Glide with dgVoodo2. Not too shabby for this old Girl!






https://ibb.co/KcZRGRd
https://ibb.co/bPD1VDn
https://ibb.co/jVkvMR8


Thatís looking good!! Iím happy with the way itís working on my legacy PC but the graphics are clearer on yours.

Itís interesting that emulating and using ďwrappersĒ and such can make old games run better than they ever did in their native environment.

I really need to get an identical Creative Voodoo2 card and try SLI. Thereís no AGP slot in my vintage PC so I should grab the best PCI graphics Direct 3D card that has Win98 drivers while Iím at it. I also need to max the memory which is either 128 or 256MB. (I have to look that up). Right now Iím at the stock 64 MB.

Regarding gameplay and patches - all the things described in the patch, Iíve encountered.

Itíll be interesting to upgrade the game and spot the differences.
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Old 10-14-2021, 10:39 PM   #27
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Icon14 Moldavia Campaign

Update:

I completed 4 of the 5 campaigns tonight. Iím playing them in ďreverseĒ order (right to left). The one I just finished was the ďMoldaviaĒ campaign and it seemed to go on forever.

If I remember the original M1 Tank Platoon gameplay correctly, a player could do well, almost complete a campaign, then almost lose and have to fight more battles to finish it. M1 Tank Platoon 2 appears to function the same way.

This is a really good game but like anything worthwhile, it takes effort. I can only play it one hour at a time, max before I get tired. Yeah, Iím definitely too old for the real thing if a game is kicking my a**!!! (Truthfully, every time I put on the uniform, it seems I was instantly tired, hungry and freaking freezing cold! I donít know if I could handle those physical hardships now! War is a young manís game.)

Once Iíve completed the 5th campaign, Iím going to attempt them all one more time on the ĒhardĒ setting. I think the key is to move slow as soon as enemy contact is made and hit shift + q if youíre down to your last tank and arenít gonna make it.

More updates to follow!
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:47 AM   #28
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I have found some of the strategy and tactics tips and compiled them. Maybe you find them of some interest in your campaign journey:
Link below:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9kvdg4pb6c...1%2B2.zip?dl=0

Also here is the link to the old Archives of Combatsim Armor forum with some pertaining posts to M1TP2.
http://www.combatsim.com/cgi-bin/ubb...&start_point=0
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Old 10-16-2021, 12:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polak2 View Post
I have found some of the strategy and tactics tips and compiled them. Maybe you find them of some interest in your campaign journey:
Link below:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9kvdg4pb6c...1%2B2.zip?dl=0

Also here is the link to the old Archives of Combatsim Armor forum with some pertaining posts to M1TP2.
http://www.combatsim.com/cgi-bin/ubb...&start_point=0

Wow, thanks! Yes, I find reading up on M1TP2 gameplay to be very interesting. It is sad that the game appears to have been totally abandoned for Steel Beasts. I don't think that way - if something was good decades ago, it's still good!!!

I have not given Steel Beasts a real chance and suspect I'm not interested because it's too realistic.

Back in the day, we'd have to "qualify" all Bradley crews on ranges which are modeled after tank gunnery ranges. The Table VIII range qualification was the individual vehicle crew qualification range.

Table XII was the platoon level qualification range.

There was tremendous pressure on us to make sure everybody was trained up and qualified. We ran crews through day and night and were running into serious sleep deprivation. Yeah....firing the 25mm Bradley main gun on the range was NOT fun. However gunnery and playing tank PC games IS fun! Very odd!!!

Thanks for the links! I just completed all 5 campaigns but it doesn't count because I did it on "Easy" mode. Now that I know what I'm doing, I'm going to re-attempt on "Hard" mode. I've also got two 128MB sticks of memory scheduled to arrive next week. I'm not sure if more memory will improve how the game runs or not - probably won't make a difference. I'm also on the hunt for a Creative 3Dfx card so I can run M1TP2 in SLI mode. The additional card might make the sim look even better. It actually looks fine now.

Redcon-1, continuing mission, out!

Last edited by RetroGamer; 10-16-2021 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 10-16-2021, 05:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
It is sad that the game appears to have been totally abandoned for Steel Beasts. I don't think that way - if something was good decades ago, it's still good!!!
Agree100%, if it is good it stays good.

And for us, little older folks what counts more is the good and deep gameplay, and not so much the wrapping ...the flashy graphics. Yes, the graphics count nowadays too, but graphics alone without the depth of the game did not leave any lasting memory or affection. However, those are the values known and understood well by the older generation of gamers and they are rather sadly not the leading factor among gamers now.

Quote:
It is sad that the game appears to have been totally abandoned for Steel Beasts.
Quote:
I have not given Steel Beasts a real chance and suspect I'm not interested because it's too realistic.
I again agree that Steel Beasts1 have learned from the experience and sometimes shortcomings of earlier M1TP2 and they took really the advantage of that. I am saying this not in a negative way just stating the fact that SB1 and then SBProPE is in many aspects more realistic and perhaps because of that ... for some of us more advanced and perhaps naturally better.

I would stick to M1TP2 for as long as it takes to really learn and explore that simulation, but (at least for me) it is a stepping stone to reexplore all tank simulations with a better understanding of the character, tactics, and strategy of modern tank battlefield.

Yours, it is a very special case as you have experienced the sweat, stress, and discomforts of armor vehicle training and you are not seeking to learn any more truth or realism above and beyond to what you already well know and remember. But maybe ...one day.

Quote:
I've also got two 128MB sticks of memory scheduled to arrive next week. I'm not sure if more memory will improve how the game runs or not - probably won't make a difference. I'm also on the hunt for a Creative 3Dfx card so I can run M1TP2 in SLI mode. The additional card might make the sim look even better. It actually looks fine now.
I see you go all the way into 3dfx immersion. Looking forward to seeing some shots.
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