[TEC] Propeller spin direction - revisited (yet again)

[Ducimus]

Who would have thought modding was such a political activity.

Over the years, i have come to realize that In general, while degrees of motivation vary, there are two basic types of modders: One, mods primarily for the betterment of the game; the other primarily for personal "glory", and the two often rub against one another. Just food for thought.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Who would have thought modding was such a political activity.

Over the years, i have come to realize that In general, while degrees of motivation vary, there are two basic types of modders: One, mods primarily for the betterment of the game; the other primarily for personal "glory", and the two often rub against one another. Just food for thought.

Oh grow up. Given your posting history you would be wise to keep your mouth shut.

[AVGWarhawk]

You guys are just too much. It never ceases to amaze me.

[Anvart]

Guys!
Master Skwasjer has applied the known solution for the trick with propeller rotation ...
And i congratulate him on success in this business ...
This all, that i wished to tell ...

P.S.
Hope, i has correctly written ... :hmm:

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Who would have thought modding was such a political activity.

Over the years, i have come to realize that In general, while degrees of motivation vary, there are two basic types of modders: One, mods primarily for the betterment of the game; the other primarily for personal "glory", and the two often rub against one another. Just food for thought.

You know what Duci boy.....over recent years I've come to the same conclusion also

There could well be some mileage in this statement of yours, therefore I've got to say I agree with you, but not what I suspect is your true/intended sentiment and meaning.

Whilst on the philosophy theme let me add two more statements I also endevour to subscribe to:

People should practice what they preach.

People in glass houses shouldn't start throwing stones.

Now......just like your initial statement, these could also be perceived in a variety of ways and are therefore 'open to individual interpretation'.


Time to return to the peanut gallery.

[Captain America]

Just couldn't let this post die...of course you guys couldn't do that. You have to keep harping on the issue and pull me back in. No problem. This is going to be a long post, but as privateer would say - you don't have to read it if you don't like it.

Privateer I don't care how you view anvart, if he's your hero or not. The point is lets start acting like adults and stop the baby crap. You don't make it a habbit to go to everyone's thread and dump on their findings. Even if they may believe incorrectly about being the first to find it. What purpose does it serve? It is just plain juvenile and insulting. It adds nothing to the community other than your self- serving egos. Why all this urgency to point out findings? If somone blatantly stole from a mod then I fully agree with you. But honest "mishaps" such as these do not warrant the actions I have seen both present and past. Why do some people need so much attention? Did mommy and daddy not commend them enough growing up?

Like I previously stated: Shame on you even more if this finding truely has been around; because it only strengthens the belief about the selfishness in the sh3 modding community. Do you guys not see how clear and evident all this bs is?

Let me break it down for you:

You don't share most of your findings, even create modding applications that 99% of the Subsim community doesn't even know exist! Then as soon as some poor soul finds what he/she thinks to be a breakthru....the "sh3 modding police" are right there to slap your wrist and tell you that someone already did that. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE IF THAT INFORMATION IS KEPT PRIVILEGED! Don't you know that saying..."if a tree falls in the woods and nobody was there to hear it, did it really make a sound?" Same thing here folks - its catch 22.
Don't expect to get credit for something you kept privileged to begin with. I'm sorry if we weren't able to "hear your tree falling."

This thread lost its usefullness after post # 16...for after that the rest was all about reminding skwasjer that "its been done already". Also, notice the people that chimed in after that...not for any good intentions other than re-enforcing the wrist slapping.

Originally Posted by privateer

He has pointed out the obvious.
Nothing more.
If his posts do not meet your expectations of proper
posting?
Why read them?

I think you need to take your own words into practice for I also merely stated the "obvious". I am not going on a hunch here...his post history serves as fact. Are you going to argue that it is not a fact that he posts in a majority of threads with useless 3 line sentences on how its been done already? Yet your statements insinuate that I shouldn't have posted. Is it ok for others to point out facts but not me? Not to mention that it took 3-4 people to point out the very same fact...basically ganging up on the guy. But ONE person states the obvious and thats no good. This is hypocracy at its finest.

As far as I am concerned skwasjer was the one who fixed the props and will continue to get credit for his findings. The fact is he is one of the few here in the sh4 comm. that should have glory for his selfless contributions. Who else here can say otherwise? Have you done better? Not only does he share his intelligence with the community, but he took the time to make a very functional and robust application that has taken and continues to take countless laborious hours; Not just for a handful of privileged people -- the whole community (both sh3 & 4)! This type of behavior is the only one that truely contributes to the community..for knowledge is power and if more have it, the more great things we'll continue to see.

Well I'm going to put an end to all of this. I have been observing this community for many years. It has slowly changed from the open and sharing environment it once was to a selfish and secretive one. Again, I do not speak about all...you know who you are. Sh4 could be even more better now with proven and existing findings that are kept privy. I loved sh3 and made my contributions there just like everyone else. I have sinced moved on to sh4 and would like to see many things already proven in sh3 used in sh4. Unfortunately, most of the best talent has chosen to stay with the German campaign. I don't blame them and I respect their decisions...but that doesn't mean the other half of the community should be without benefit.

Subsim is a community for lovers of all these types of games...I do not think Neal's intention was to make a divided community where one half benefits while the other doesn't. There should be a contiguous flow from sh3 to her sister game sh4. Yet this does not exist, why?

Well here is both the solution and test to see the true colors of people. I am going to create another "super-mod" for sh4. I going to try to fill up the void that Ducimus is going to leave while he takes his (temporary) break (this guy has some big shoes)! I have already discussed this with him and believe I have his blessings. This community has always been about choice so its very healthy to have the excellent RFB and another "super mod" coexist. The work of Ducimus and others in TM will serve as a foundation to build upon. I have already spent over a month doing just that and hope over time others will join my cause and help contribute. Let me say it now, any new content that I have and will be creating (models, textures, etc.) is free for the entire community, both sh4 and sh3....this is how its always been.

I can not speak for the gwx team because I personally do not know many of them, but I have exchanged correspondance with Kpt. Lehmann in the past and can honestly say he has been nothing but respectful and professional in his dealings with me. I remember when he approached me privately at the conception of gwx and wanted me to "share" my interior fix http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...aptain+america
which was imo, a major contribution at the time (there are other bits also).

I of course said yes with the understanding of the sharing philosophy. Now its more than 2 yrs later and I would like to see if it really is a two-way street. I was going to eventually contact the gwx team with a formal request but figured now is a good time to do so in a public forum where actions can be judged. I would like to maybe use some of the excellent ideas already implemented in gwx. Let me be clear, I haven't already found something specifically yet. But since info is not shared I must dig in to learn about the great achievments made in gwx. I am sure this should not be a problem because I already shared my work in the past and anything new I make can always be used in gwx which is what has been the understanding since day 1. (i.e. some of the interior models I am creating can be re-used/modified for the german campaign) Don't worry, I do not plan on "stealing" any art assets as that is my primary strength and will make my own content. I just want to know that the witch hunt that some have warned me about will not occur.

I can not tell you to remove all of my work from gwx...we all know its just virtual numbers. I happen to place the right ones where they belong but in the end its just numbers (even though it took 1 month of my life). Well the same should stand for the content in your mod. As long as I give the proper credit and not make ANY money on it, it should be ok with you guys because after all its for the community as whole like Neal intended, not only a select group.

[Ducimus]

I see the wolves are tossing out bait, hoping someone will bite. Well, ill nibble some. If i modded primarly for personal glory, i would not be freely giving my work away to almost anyone, nor freely giving away any knowledge that i might have about my mod, or modding in general to others.

I might infact, if i were more concerned about being king of the hill, make damn sure NOBODY used my work without my say so, and id keep all knowledge and tools to myself and work entirely in secret without telling anyone the how's and whys. And when people asked me specifics to how things work or why, id just blow a whole lot of smoke so i don't have to explain anything that others might be able to use. After all, doing any of the above is helping out the "competition", and that just isn't conducive to maintaining dominance. Can't have that now can we.

[skwasjer]

PS: Just because one or two persons 'know' about a solution or fix, doesn't mean everyone does. As far as I'm concerned, I found this solution and I don't give a damn if anyone found it and used it in their own mod without openly sharing this hack. I did, and the community will learn and move on. Not only that, beginners have have a video tutorial for S3D to boot.

Anyway, thanks for letting this thread getting out of hand. I saw where this was going (as I usually do) right from the first page so I didn't care to post anymore, nor will I from this point on.

Bye...

Some old thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=115047&page=4

[edit] Oh, and lastly, I think it's pretty lame to say something has been done before without even pointing to any available public resources that explain the solution or a simple mod that fixes it properly. Both me and Captain America have done so now. Period.

Why not do the standard approach?
Just lock the thread.
Seems some can state an opinion and others can't.
I didn't point fingers and made no claims or put downs.
I don't have the time to point out EVERY thing I have done,
or others have done in the past.
I'm not dissing anyone.
Will I ask permission to use this approach?
Absoluty not!!
Does anyone need permission?
Not as far as I see it.
Skwas doesn't read every file and that's cool with me.
Notice I did not jump in and blast him?
Heck, I give him credit for figureing it out!!
It's not my concern to inform anyone of what I do
nor how I do it.
And I try to care very little what most people think of me.
Worry about your own posts.
I can dig up bad days too.
Meh!

[Rockin Robbins]

Let me add one comment here. Anvart, this discussion is not for your great intellect, which can understand any complex concept in two words (save the video please), but for the benefit of those less gifted and enlightened than you. You are not the mental center of Subsim.

Even if you are, the intent is to teach as many as possible how to use a useful technique. Whether you or others did it first in your secret laboratory or not, you might as well not have, for your work benefited nobody.

Suppose I explained the Dick O'Kane manual targeting technique in two words? How many players could have more fun with SH3 and SH4 as a result? How many players, frustrated and at wits end would then begin to have fun with manual targeting? My two words would be wasted on everybody but you. Instead, through multiple videos and long explanatory posts, a waste of precious bandwidth to you, the Dick O'Kane technique has become a resource that has many enjoying a game they began to hate, I've been able to contribute to a great many people's happiness. That is the best way to measure a successful idea.

It's a pity that your only concern is for yourself and what's appropriate to you. You are missing out on what makes Subsim, Silent Hunter 3 and Silent Hunter 4 fun.

Since every file is released publicly for free?
Are We responsable for lazyness now?

Read the files.
Is that to much work?

That's how I learned.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yet another thread in the crapper Thank you all!

[tonschk]

Originally Posted by andrut82

I hope that this WONDERFUL thingie will be embedded in PE, NSM or will be released as a little self-standing mod ;P I hate that when I show this unbelievable game to my friends and the first thing they always say when watching the external camera is "WTF? You're going ahead and the props are spinning like you're going backwards!" ^^

Unfortunatly after 5 " FIVE " patches the propellers are still spinning upsidedown ( the propellers of U-Boot are OK ), and I remember before the patch 1.4 we was already begging UBISOFT to fix the propellers bug , the begging was therefore ....... useless

I dont care if the propellers have three or four blades ( I preffer only three blades ), but the wrong spinning decrease the inmersion factor