Escort crew rating

[John Pancoast]

I'd like to take a look at experimenting with changing some of these; hopefully stronger as the escort ai in the game stinks.

I know there are different ratings, such as poor, average, elite, etc. But searching with S3d editor, I can't find them.
Can these ratings be changed, and if so where is it done ?

[Niume]

IIRC they are changed via Mission editor. The campaign files.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Niume

IIRC they are changed via Mission editor. The campaign files.

Ok, thanks.

[propbeanie]

If you use a text editor for that, the listings are "CrewRating=x" lines, where "x" is from "0" (zero) to "4", with 0=Poor, 1=Novice, 2=Competent, 3=Veteran, and 4=Elite. Doing editing for these would be daunting to say the least if using the Mission Editor, though it is certainly possible.

If you use something like Notepad++ or 010 Editor (costs money, but highly recommended for chores like this for its scripting power), you can do a search to find all occurrences of "CrewRating=", and decide how much editing you want to do... As an example, in the Stock game, there are 3383 "hits" for "CrewRating=" in Campaign_RND.mis, of which none are set to "5", 802 are set to "4", 733 are set to "3", 924 are set to "2", 358 are set to "1" and 566 are set to "0". Depending upon the mod(s) you are using, these figures will be different, but you can see in stock that the devs didn't want to scare-off or frustrate folks with rammings and depth charge attacks...

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

If you use a text editor for that, the listings are "CrewRating=x" lines, where "x" is from "0" (zero) to "4", with 0=Poor, 1=Novice, 2=Competent, 3=Veteran, and 4=Elite. Doing editing for these would be daunting to say the least if using the Mission Editor, though it is certainly possible.

If you use something like Notepad++ or 010 Editor (costs money, but highly recommended for chores like this for its scripting power), you can do a search to find all occurrences of "CrewRating=", and decide how much editing you want to do... As an example, in the Stock game, there are 3383 "hits" for "CrewRating=" in Campaign_RND.mis, of which none are set to "5", 802 are set to "4", 733 are set to "3", 924 are set to "2", 358 are set to "1" and 566 are set to "0". Depending upon the mod(s) you are using, these figures will be different, but you can see in stock that the devs didn't want to scare-off or frustrate folks with rammings and depth charge attacks...

Great info, thanks ! Yeah, I looked in the mission editor..........no thanks; way to much work, with to much chance of screwing something else up with my fumble fingers.

I'd just like to up the early war (until 1942) escorts. Regardless of the mod, they're just plain unrealistically stupid and inept.
It's not like u-boats weren't also sunk during this time, but in the SH3 world you wouldn't think so.

Convoy attacks, I sink ships until I'm out of torpedoes (multiple attacks, almost all two torpedoes per ship), dive (submerged attacks) to 100 meters, set speed to two knots silent running and go do errands for an hour or two. I even go off silent running and reload the torpedoes once I reach 100 meters, using three knots to get to the depth/new course !?! Convoys just go on their merry way without even pinging me. Surface attacks aren't much different results.
Don't even worry about my aspect angle to the escorts. I just turn back to the convoy course and once the tubes are reloaded go at it again.

Mostly with NYGM and GWX. Every patrol I get 15-30k tonnage. I know early war vs later war ASW is different, but early war is to easy imo.

[John Pancoast]

Just ran the Notepad program you linked to on NYGM and GWX.


In Nygm, the vast (approx. 4700) majority crew ratings are 2 with 1400 being a 3. In Gwx, the vast majority are roughly (approx. 3500 each) evenly spread between 2 and 3.


Both have greatly lesser amounts in 1 and 4, none in 0 or 5. Interesting program, thanks !

[Hebe Vollmaus]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

I'd like to take a look at experimenting with changing some of these; hopefully stronger as the escort ai in the game stinks.

I know there are different ratings, such as poor, average, elite, etc. But searching with S3d editor, I can't find them.
Can these ratings be changed, and if so where is it done ?

You know, but anyway: In SH3 there is no easy way on driving one screw and get the desired result. If you change one thing, that can change also things on completely different and unexpected area.

What you are trying to do may be some sort of balancing. Evan the professional experts or Game-developers (not only SH3) can fail and are failed on this.

There are alot of discussions on this topic, which i cant remember all. A short search on Subsim brings some results:

for SH4 but also relevant for SH3 (without thermal layer)
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=111395

in GWX are(!) hardcore-Destroyers
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-137709.html

limits
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-119826.html

limits, Modifying Search-beam
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-194336.html

GWX "uber"AI
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=104377


Keep in mind, that changing the Environment can also have unwanted results to Sensors. For example visual sensor are relying on light and ambient-light.

This Game-balancing, once started, is an ongoing never ending process.

Greetings.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus

You know, but anyway: In SH3 there is no easy way on driving one screw and get the desired result. If you change one thing, that can change also things on completely different and unexpected area.

What you are trying to do may be some sort of balancing. Evan the professional experts or Game-developers (not only SH3) can fail and are failed on this.

There are alot of discussions on this topic, which i cant remember all. A short search on Subsim brings some results:

for SH4 but also relevant for SH3 (without thermal layer)
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=111395

in GWX are(!) hardcore-Destroyers
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-137709.html

limits
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-119826.html

limits, Modifying Search-beam
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-194336.html

GWX "uber"AI
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=104377


Keep in mind, that changing the Environment can also have unwanted results to Sensors. For example visual sensor are relying on light and ambient-light.

This Game-balancing, once started, is an ongoing never ending process.

Greetings.

Yes, all true, thanks. It'd be to much work anyway; lots of things to change.


I've always got a kick out of someone thinking the AI, escorts, etc. in the game are uber, tough, whatever.
I have the feeling those that think so, do things that make the AI seem tough even when they're not.
I.e., hang around watching their torpedo, being at shallow depth and wondering why they get sunk, engaging every aircraft they run across, etc.
They must never have played AOD; that AI was much tougher <g>.


I find the 1939-1942 ai a cakewalk if one uses realistic tactics, etc.


Thanks for the reply !

[John Pancoast]

Next campaign, I'm going to up the crew ratings. It's easy with the "Replace with" feature in Notepad (without looking, think that's the program in Windows).

Something to try anyway, to make the escorts more challenging. If it works, fine, if not, oh well.

I know there are other variables involved, but worth a shot anyway.

[John Pancoast]

Kicked all the escort crew ratings up one notch, four being the highest. I.e., 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4.

Much better results, for me anyway. Have escorts acting like escorts instead of on a sight seeing cruise.

[propbeanie]

SH3 is different in some aspects from SH4, but Ducimus had a post / thread a while back that might give you an idea or two: Adjusting the AI - cliff notes version - it's for SH4, remember, and some of the file names will be different, and some settings will be completely missing... I remember something like this for SH3 many many moons ago (Ducimus again??), but could not find it.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

SH3 is different in some aspects from SH4, but Ducimus had a post / thread a while back that might give you an idea or two: Adjusting the AI - cliff notes version - it's for SH4, remember, and some of the file names will be different, and some settings will be completely missing... I remember something like this for SH3 many many moons ago (Ducimus again??), but could not find it.

Yeah, I read that awhile back, thanks though ! Don't know if I'll do much more AI editing though; to many other variables involved.


Plus, the real "edit" I do for SH3 AI is to load up AOD <g>