SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-17, 08:40 AM   #1
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default (Crazy) economy news

German comparison site Svada offers the first credit with negative "interests" (-0.4) for private customers. Life is fixed to 36 months. Limit is 1000 Euros. You lease 1000 Euros. Three years later you pay back 996 Euros.

Before you think this is good news, think twice. Its a sign of how desperate and insane the market situation is.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-17, 02:42 PM   #2
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 184,178
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

Hasn't this already happened previously in some Scandinavian countries?
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-17, 12:09 PM   #3
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

^ I don't know, I have never heared of that.

---------------

This bases on official statistics of the German federal office for statistics. It calculates how much worth 100 Euros today would be if you had saved them back in the years of the list. The calculation bases on the inflation rates in Germany since then. The exchange rate D-Mark - Euro has been considered as well.

100 € = 195.58 DM

The term "inflation" means that the ammount of money tokens and book money gets "inflated". This makes money more expensive, and reduces its value. - No, this is not contradicting. If you had bought five items of something costing you 100 Euros lets say 15 years ago, today you would get for the same money of 100 Euros just 4 such items. - In the past you had to invest 5 such items to get 100 Euros. Today you already get those 100 Euros for just 4 such items you have to give.

Inflation does not mean that "prices go up". They do go up to compensate for the devaluation of money, but climbing prices it is not the primary meaning of the term inflation, but just a consequence of inflation. Inflation'S primary meaning is increasment of the ammount of money, and by that devaluation of it. Prices going up are not he the cause, but a following symptom of it.

And consider this: with for example a gold-standard currency, you cannot have inflation. To create inflation, you need a planned currency of unlimited availability: paper money that bases not on securities of limited availability that would hinder its inflating.



Stable currencies? Stable Deutschmark? Urban legends. Not with paper money, my friends. Where they talk of wanted inflation, this compares to reducing the content in precious metal in a "gold thaler" or a silverdollar. Originally, such coins were pure precious metals. The coin had the value not because of a value commanded for it by somebody, the state, but because it contained the amount of precious metal printed on it - Dollar, thaler, and so many other names of currencies of the past were weight units by original meaning, like Karat for diamonds. "1 dollar" means 1 weight-unit (dollar) of silver, and was worth what the market paid for that lot of silver. It thus was not important who minted the coin, and so there were private mints. - Before the American civil war, the American dollar was minted by over half a dozens mints, you literally had different silverdollars, and I think most of those mints were private ones, not state-run. No problem in that. That a state must "control the money making", is a lie thta serves state/politician/gangster interests:

When kings and states started desiring to spend more than they could afford by their possessions in silver and gold, they started to secure the minting monopoly for themselves, killed the private competition by law or execution, and then started to reduce the ammount of gold in a gold thaler, silver in a silver thaler. ( Very brief historic summary, I know, I just focus on the main strain here, to keep it simple.) By this, they created forged silver and gold coins, and had more of them, claiming their value to be that of the original amount of precious metal in them that they no longer had. This way, they could buy more stuff and pay more bills. But a silver dollar does not have one dollar of silver in it, and a gold thaler has not one thaler of gold in it. It is less.

Its as if you buy a tetrapack of 500ml with milk, and they print on it: "1 litre".

Penultimately it led to the creation of forged paper money with no inherent value at all, and the banning of precious metal-covered money. Politicians can raise unlimited promises to get elected only, when they have unlimited amounts of money available. Gold and silver set natural such limits, and therefore they had to be destroyed, from the gangsters' point of view.

Central banks know all this, that is why they hold so enormous ammounts of gold in their treasury, over 40 thousand tons, I think, but I am not certain. If they were right in their lies they tell the people - that gold is no money and is stupid to hold - why are they so eager to posses as much of it as they can afford, and some even buying as if there is no tomorrow (Russia, China, India as well with its private gold prohibition since earlier this year)...? Because they know that these things represnt real market value , while paper money does not. They violate their own advise they give to people, and they do so on purpose . Because they want the real value of gold from the people, and want the people to trade it for forged, worthless paper money that notorioulsy gets devalued by inflation.

A criminal scheme is going on.

Lesson of it all? You cannot create wealth by printing money. In fact you loose wealth by printing money, and the more you insist on the dogma of a wanted inflation, the more you try to extinguish the fire by spilling fuel into it.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

Last edited by Skybird; 07-19-17 at 08:13 AM.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-17, 12:49 PM   #4
Onkel Neal
Born to Run Silent
 
Onkel Neal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Cougar Trap, Texas
Posts: 21,360
Downloads: 541
Uploads: 224


Default

Good post, Sky. I agree, we're in strange times. Just look who is President of the USA
__________________
SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web
Onkel Neal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-17, 01:19 PM   #5
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
Good post, Sky. I agree, we're in strange times. Just look who is President of the USA
Two quotes from the master himself:

"The gold standard did not collapse. Governments abolished it in order to pave the way for inflation. The whole grim apparatus of oppression and coercion, policemen, customs guards, penal courts, prisons, in some countries even executioners, had to be put into action in order to destroy the gold standard."

"The illusiveness of this concept of national income is to be seen in its dependence on changes in the purchasing power of the monetary unit. The more inflation progresses, the higher rises the national income."


L.v. Mises

"Strange times", Neal? Absolutely terrifying, I say. Beyond "dug deep in and take cover", I have run out of advice.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

Last edited by Skybird; 07-18-17 at 01:29 PM.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-17, 11:03 AM   #6
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

https://mises.org/library/money-supp...-105-month-low

Lets celebrate. Maybe not. No, better not.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-17, 11:18 AM   #7
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Eu explores account freezes

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN1AD1RS

No real surprise, but nice to see a smoking gun. Maybe it makes some more people think. For my own part, I finished my preparations by now - what I think I can do in this messy situation, I think I have done. Maybe not one year too early - who knows. Things can turn nasty in ten months, in ten days, or in ten years. It is this total unpredictability that made me withdrawing completely from stockmarket transactions. You do not need an uncertainty indicator of 90% - chances of 50:50 already means that evertyhing is possioble and all outcomes realising are totally random.

And what is the result of these efforts to keep failing banks alive? You keep alive banks that are not able to live by themselves, and all others pay for this. Like subsidizing economic branches that are not competitive, and subsidizing companies that without subsidies would die. This way, you constantly increase the need for for more and more subsidies, since the uncompetitive actors get artificaly kept alive, and caus eplenty of fallout.

Its part of market economy to let unhealthy players down. The opposite to market economy, is planned economy. And we know from amyn historixc examples - and currently Venezuela - where this leads to, inevitably. From weakening to collapsing, from collapsing to dying.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

Last edited by Skybird; 07-31-17 at 12:17 PM.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-17, 11:17 AM   #8
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

The Bitcoin got split.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40800270

I have a very alarmed sentiment about cryptocurrencies. To me, they are a hype. You can gamble and win a stash, yes, but also, it is a snowball system.

Consider that most of the quantity of cryptocurrency units gets invested into - other cryptocurrencies. Consider that cryptocurrencies do not have any inherent value at all, not even the few pennies it costs to have the paper and ink for printing a banknote. A cryptocurrency unit in itself is a certain quantity of - nothing. It represents no material value at all. It has no securities at all. And now big gamblers "invest" big ammounts of nothing into other nothings. This cannot be good. Real money is no "dissipative structure" and no "self-emerging order". It is a material trading good of inherent value representing it's material value the market gives for it. FIAT paper money and cryptocurrencies are that NOT.

The Bitcoin split means that one of the arguments in defence of Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies, that they are limited in availability and cannot see their total ammount of units in circulaiton bengn artificially inflated, is wrong. What this split means, in the end, is right this: inflation. It is an increasing of the speed of blockchain transacitons - but also of unit mining. And that compares to switching on the money printer. Its a wanted inflation, although wanted for other reasons than why central banks want to inflate paper money and book money. Or maybe not...? maybe the real difference is not the motivation, but the persons having the motivation.

There is nothing of value in all this. No real material something of anything. Its paper money without money, its book money. Talking about a glass of water does not ease your thirst, since you still cannot drink it.

The algorithms generating it, can be manipulated or replaced obviously - this is what has been done now. The comparison to precious metals and their limited availability for raising mining production arbitrarily and without limits, is not correct. You cannot increase at arbitrary will the ammount of silver or gold or plation getting mined, there are practial limits. With cryptocurrencies, there are just - conventions. Like conventions for paper money.

Also note that the currency moners have their own interest to mine: profit. The ygte paid for running the infrastructre needed to do these immense calcualiton that shoudl simulate the mininmg of gold on the mountain. Just that Bitcoin mining never creates any ore.

The part of the technology that I like, is the blockchain. That can be used for transaction outside the monitoring and control of a third party, and it does not really matter what currency gets traded there. It reminds a bit of the Middle Eastern transaction method named Hawala. The trust element in Hawala gets replaced with the blockchain's thousands and thousands of copying databases - mere trust (or finding out that this trust was undeserved...) is not even needed. Banks have no place in this. Or men in the middle.

And states cannot control the people's property and wealth, thats why they hate Hawala and cryptocurrencies. It threatens their own powers.

Recommend blockchain technology to people, guys - but warn people of cryptocurrencies. Both are not the same. Investing into cryptocurrencies, is no investing, since investing means to invest into something material at a time when its market/trade value for reasons that do not really matter is lower than its real inherent value. You then invest and see it grow, creating you a profit to compensate you for the risk you took. To "invest" into something of nill, zero, no value, that is most likely the latest hype of a snowballing system, and that has no inherent material value at all, is no invest,ment - its gambling. You could as well go ito the casino and put money on numbers at the roulette table. That also is a gamble, its not an investment.

We need a material fundament for the currency units we do trades in. So that they are like tickets you get when handing over your coat while visitiong a show in the theatre. For every ticket handed out, there is a coat brought in. For every ticket given back, one coat gets given back. THAT is money. FIAT paper money does not fulfill this condition, book money does not - and cryptomoney also does not.

Be on your guards. Its a bubble, created by a snowball system. From nothing comes nothing - you better believe in that. I like the blockchain concept - but I do not see cryptocurrencies as one bit better than FIAT money. And by now you should really know how much I love the concept of FIAT money.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-17, 11:55 AM   #9
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

And I always thought of you as the captain of Subsim's youth team... Stayed young at heart, eh?
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-17, 12:03 PM   #10
Gerald
SUBSIM Newsman
 
Gerald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Close to sea
Posts: 24,238
Downloads: 548
Uploads: 0


Default

Interesting post Sky.
__________________
Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood.

Marie Curie





Gerald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-17, 03:04 PM   #11
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

Didn't I give enough candy, or why is somebody playing tricks on me? Whoever you are, next time ring the door bell at least once!

Vendor, the above post belongs in the thread on your retirement, and I swear that is where I have posted it, since this thread here is (was) not even on page one anymore.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-17, 05:51 PM   #12
Gerald
SUBSIM Newsman
 
Gerald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Close to sea
Posts: 24,238
Downloads: 548
Uploads: 0


Icon14

Quote:
Subsim's youth team... Stayed young at heart, eh
Very kind of ya,I shall stay strong.
__________________
Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood.

Marie Curie





Gerald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-17, 07:27 AM   #13
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

The Analyst-Website Digiconomist estimates the electrical power needed by the Bitcoin over one year to be in the range of 32 TWh. Already in 2014, mathematics of the university of Maynooth compared the ammount of electricity it consumes with that of whole Ireland.

All that power - for somethign that is nothing, but claimed to be everything.



The emperor's new clothings. Naked he promenades around. The people cheer and applaud. Soon those who still wear textile clothings, will get defamed, even criminalised.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-18, 08:12 AM   #14
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-lat...s-of-banknotes

The author is illustrating nicely what hyperinflation looks like. However, where he said part of the problem is that the banks have no more cash, he shows that he has misunderstood the problem. Cash there always is enough, and you do not solve anything by pouring even more cash into a system. The problem is the devaluing of money that it means when you inflate the amount of cash in circulation, and tokens of money being artificially created pointless crap having zero value in themselves.

Inflation rate 13000 percent. While having the biggest oil reserves in the world. Socialism scores big time once again.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-18, 06:30 AM   #15
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 41,298
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0


Default

The perfect storm.

https://translate.google.de/translat...tml&edit-text=
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
Skybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.