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Old 11-27-08, 01:41 PM   #61
ReM
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Maybe I'll save the $$$ I was gonna spend on SF and use it to buy upcoming paid update for SBPpe. I don't like paid updates but it seems to be the better investment...:hmm:
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Old 11-27-08, 03:30 PM   #62
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Lets be honest here, judging by the demo Steel Fury is just as much a sim as ... say ... the Silent Hunter series, and its now called "more a game than a simulation" by the SB Pro crowd. I think this means its just the right amount of simulation for me.
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Old 11-27-08, 03:52 PM   #63
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I overworked a draft for a review after having played 16 missions until now. I gave it two notes: as a complex action game, I gave it a B or B-; as a simulation I gave it a D.

Stabiz,

of course I know that people will suspect that I talk it down in order to let SBP shine, but believe me - I did not want and I even did not need to do so. As a sim it simply is no competition to SBP, in almost no way.

I let it rest now to see if over night something makes me changing my mind, but my interest to play on is almost nil, the past missions already were repetitive, and all very much the same, in good and bad. the most obvious difference is the changing ghraphics according to time of day.

If I do not see any need to start a massive rework, you have my 5200 word review tomorrow afternoon.

If you take SF as a light game and have not too high expectations, you can like SF. If you want a realistic sim, with the needed elements characterizing a simulation, SF is no serious player, imo. the simple fact that you can win almost all missions by doing nothing and just make sure you stay alive, and that after 24 hours I am already done with half of its missions and even had time to review it, speaks for itself.
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Old 11-27-08, 05:21 PM   #64
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I have now both played, TvT and Steel Fury. But with all the bugs in TvT, for me the armored battle in TvT feels more demanding. Steel Fury looks beautiful for a tank game in this niche market but I find it half implemented in some cases of the game logic.

I never felt truly I have something contributed for the ever positive outcome of the missions, and this on highest realism settings not matter which side in the campaign I played.

I let move my comrades in a straight line onto the scanty existing opponents (like in ancient wars ) and after about 5-10 minutes of playing time, mission is reported successfully, total loss of enemies, my men are all alive, absent the ones I shot down for a test of friendly fire.

I do not know if there is only no longer remembers correctly, but a few years ago when I played M1 Tank Platoon, M1 Abrams, Panzer Elite and SB I felt that all these games are much more demanding and sophisticated. The graphic was not the best but the feeling and the degree of difficulty was higher I think. Maybe today you can no longer sell such a high level of difficulty to the consumers if you want enough revenue of your work.
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Old 11-27-08, 06:08 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navarre
I let move my comrades in a straight line onto the scanty existing opponents (like in ancient wars ) and after about 5-10 minutes of playing time, mission is reported successfully, total loss of enemies, my men are all alive, absent the ones I shot down for a test of friendly fire.
compare that to this part from my review:

"In the tactics department, this game disappoints. Tactics I never needed to win – just letting my force linearly move towards the objectives, and sooner or later they succeeded, no matter how unorganised and chaotic the scene was (on highest difficulty settings, there are several sliders to adjust this). "

Quote:
Steel Fury looks beautiful for a tank game in this niche market but I find it half implemented in some cases of the game logic.
I call it different, I call it: broken AI. If it looks, feels and behaves broken, and another explanation is not available or not likely, then it probably is broken. But I am the known black bogeyman of unforgiving reviews anyway...
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Old 11-27-08, 06:13 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReM
Maybe I'll save the $$$ I was gonna spend on SF and use it to buy upcoming paid update for SBPpe. I don't like paid updates but it seems to be the better investment...:hmm:
I think that is the best way to go. I should have listened to my own instincts that said "No" after the SF demo - would have saved me 40 bucks. But all that talking of people made me jittery. Should have let them talk, like usually I always do...

The SBP packages however has plenty of tasty stuff in it. Before you feel bad about paying for it, please remember that there already were I think six updates, including one major addon, all for free. They said from the very beginning on that from one point on they would need to charge for further public work.
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Old 11-28-08, 07:32 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird
I overworked a draft for a review after having played 16 missions until now. I gave it two notes: as a complex action game, I gave it a B or B-; as a simulation I gave it a D.

Stabiz,

of course I know that people will suspect that I talk it down in order to let SBP shine, but believe me - I did not want and I even did not need to do so. As a sim it simply is no competition to SBP, in almost no way.

I let it rest now to see if over night something makes me changing my mind, but my interest to play on is almost nil, the past missions already were repetitive, and all very much the same, in good and bad. the most obvious difference is the changing ghraphics according to time of day.

If I do not see any need to start a massive rework, you have my 5200 word review tomorrow afternoon.

If you take SF as a light game and have not too high expectations, you can like SF. If you want a realistic sim, with the needed elements characterizing a simulation, SF is no serious player, imo. the simple fact that you can win almost all missions by doing nothing and just make sure you stay alive, and that after 24 hours I am already done with half of its missions and even had time to review it, speaks for itself.
Skybird,

I saw you posted over at the lighthouse forums as well and I think the good folks here deserve another point of view on Steel Fury. Your views on SF are unfair and unfounded. I don't understand why you think its not a serious sim.

I have been a professional reviewer for years and I see nothing in SF that doesn't point at the label 'hardcore sim'. The physis and operation of a WW2 tank are painstakingly accurate, the landscapes are modelled after the real thing (the Graviteam guys went on location to model them), and it has lots of bells and whistles in terms of sounds and sights.

Based on that, then what in the name of the simgods make you say it's an 'action' game?? Whats your problem with it, and what's up with the constant comparison with Steel Beasts?

Your comments are inappropriate and unaccurate. You have a right not to like it, but don't make it sound like its a piece of crap because it didn't pass 'THE SKYBIRD TEST', because then, my friend, you have a long way to go as a reviewer :-)
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Old 11-28-08, 07:36 AM   #68
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I think (and hope) you are right. I wont have the game until thursday or friday, but I have yet to read anything as negative as what Skybird writes.

I read that it is a helluva lot better than TvsT, a game Neal liked alot in his review, and now Skybird says he is uninstalling it after 24 hours. It doesnt make sense, unless its the usual SBP rant.
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Old 11-28-08, 07:54 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stabiz
I think (and hope) you are right. I wont have the game until thursday or friday, but I have yet to read anything as negative as what Skybird writes.

I read that it is a helluva lot better than TvsT, a game Neal liked alot in his review, and now Skybird says he is uninstalling it after 24 hours. It doesnt make sense, unless its the usual SBP rant.




With it only just been out and bugs been addressed within days!! I think its a pretty good start.

Fall Blau to come and im sure some of the more talented simmers will be adding missions/mods pretty soon.

Tigershuffle.


sorry posted in wrong forum originally..
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Old 11-28-08, 07:55 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Sessine
Skybird,

I saw you posted over at the lighthouse forums as well and I think the good folks here deserve another point of view on Steel Fury. Your views on SF are unfair and unfounded. I don't understand why you think its not a serious sim.

I have been a professional reviewer for years and I see nothing in SF that doesn't point at the label 'hardcore sim'. The physis and operation of a WW2 tank are painstakingly accurate, the landscapes are modelled after the real thing (the Graviteam guys went on location to model them), and it has lots of bells and whistles in terms of sounds and sights.

Based on that, then what in the name of the simgods make you say it's an 'action' game?? Whats your problem with it, and what's up with the constant comparison with Steel Beasts?

Your comments are inappropriate and unaccurate. You have a right not to like it, but don't make it sound like its a piece of crap because it didn't pass 'THE SKYBIRD TEST', because then, my friend, you have a long way to go as a reviewer :-)
Before you accuse me of being unfair and unfounded, why don'T you just wait until you have read what I have to say about it, and read the reasons why I rate it that mediocre? So far you object to details in my review that you still do not know. I have my reasons why I am not impressed, and I mention them. I also explain why I see it as a game, not as an simulation. but you will have to wait until Neal have set up the text.

The problem I see with both tank games here is that many people are craving so desperately for a WWII-tanksim or tankgame that after years of starving they are willing to forgive a lot if only they finally get that tankgame for the WWII era they waited for so long. But that does not make the many problems with TvT go away, nor does it make SF less shallow in tactical depth and the way the missions play.

Of course you have all freedom in the world to disagree with my conclusions, and I am not attacking you for disagreeing. But so far you do not know what it is that you disagree with - you need to wait until the review is out. And if you like the game after having spend money on it, the better for you. But I do not, and I name my reasons - not here, but in the review. It's what I see as valid and solid reasons, and not just few of them.

And no, it is not because of SBP that I don't like SF - I bought SF hoping for the better even after the demo left me unimpressed, hoping for improvements, if you read my preview on basis of the demo you see that I already was careful. The planned chapter of a direct comparison with SBP I have left out in the final review, because it was pointless, the things that could be compared between two sims from two such different eras in case of SF simply were not there to the needed extent for giving any such comparison a meaning. But this also is explained in the review.


Stabiz,

if you have read carefully you will have noted that Neal meanwhile has stepped back from some of his positive comments about TvT, and I know from himself that he is even angry both over the state the game is in, and about the behavior of the publisher. Neal had released a post short time after the review on TvT, that he was not aware of some of the massive problems the game had, especially with MP, and that it made him correct his first impressions. Just search for it. originally Neal wanted to do the official tanksim review for SF himself, but he told me that the game gives him "problems". That'S why I am jumping into the gap now. Originally and while I already was writing, my review was meant to be just an extenisve thread in this forum.

I'm sorry that I cannot meet expectations fans of the game have for a positive review, but you need to grant me the freedom to describe it as I see it - not like you want me to see it. I give my reasons in detail, and once you learned about them, you can chose whether or not you want to agree. But I am not in the business of supporting sales policies, nor do I accept an obligation to serve the interest of the pro-SF community when forming my opinion of the game'S quality. I tried to be objective, and with a clean conscience I claim: I succeeded in that.

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Old 11-28-08, 09:32 AM   #71
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I know Neal stepped back a bit on his TvsT review, but that was mainly because of online issues, a part of these games that dont interest me too much. (Only use racing sims online)

Fair enough, I guess, but do you consider the Silent Hunter series a simulation? To me SF seems like Silent Hunter with tanks and no dynamic campaign? Sure, AI could be crappy at times, it always is, as it is in the SH series vanilla.
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Old 11-28-08, 11:30 AM   #72
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Having tried both of them (Tho, havent finished either yet), my vote goes to Steel Fury. It just feels more like 'war'.
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Old 11-28-08, 05:24 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Sessine
Skybird,

I saw you posted over at the lighthouse forums as well and I think the good folks here deserve another point of view on Steel Fury. Your views on SF are unfair and unfounded. I don't understand why you think its not a serious sim.

I have been a professional reviewer for years and I see nothing in SF that doesn't point at the label 'hardcore sim'. The physis and operation of a WW2 tank are painstakingly accurate, the landscapes are modelled after the real thing (the Graviteam guys went on location to model them), and it has lots of bells and whistles in terms of sounds and sights.

Based on that, then what in the name of the simgods make you say it's an 'action' game?? Whats your problem with it, and what's up with the constant comparison with Steel Beasts?

Your comments are inappropriate and unaccurate. You have a right not to like it, but don't make it sound like its a piece of crap because it didn't pass 'THE SKYBIRD TEST', because then, my friend, you have a long way to go as a reviewer :-)
I've been reading all these SF threads with interest and all I can say is...great first post! In much the same way that Skybird has his opinion about the game, I have an opinion about his credibility to review free from bias. It's a bit hard to perceive Skybird as objective when everything he sprouts is in some way a comparison to his beloved nirvana of SBP. And why even *try* to compare SF to SBP? SF v PE or PC or TvT, sure, *that's* relevant for obvious reasons, but SF v SBP...why? That's right, because it's his favourite tanksim. But hardly relevant to me though, or anyone that exclusively plays *WWII* tanksims.

And Skybird, geez, it's only a review - one of many reviews - so why carry on like it's meant to be the ultimate word on the game that everyone must stand to attention and consider as the authoritive statement?

Anyway, thanks Dowly - a perspective from someone who has actually played both the current WWII offerings is very helpful.

EDIT: Oh geez, now I have to read Skybird's pro-SBP drivel over at the SF forum.

Last edited by JScones; 11-28-08 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 11-28-08, 05:43 PM   #74
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Having watched the available videos for SF, it does appear that there is a certain amount of aimless zig-zagging. It isn't clear where the objective or enemy strongpoints are from watching the unit's behaviours.

This might be easier to follow if you are controlling the movement and action, and have studied the briefing and maps.
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Old 11-29-08, 05:17 AM   #75
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I usually won't come often to defend skybird. But if he posted his personal, subjective opinions in his review, he has to apologize to nobody.

Because that is what I am interested in. Not the average reviews ( that includes subsim / wargamer reviews) that always give ratings between 70-100%, like there are no bad games.

These reviews might be very detailed and elaborate, but at the end I am as smart as before. Because even if the reviewer didn't like the game, he/she was much too afraid to step on anyones toes, and dodged the issue.

To hell with that. Bring on subjective honest opinions, and conclude reviews with a plain statement how you liked the game. Even if that means writing that you hated it, with the result that a lot of people will disagree with you.

It's a bit like rating music, women, food, etc. You might make elaborate considerations, but in the end it's only taste that matters.
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