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Old 02-26-2021, 12:41 AM   #1
Bubblehead1980
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Default Finally! Realistic night surface attacks with darker nights. -June 1944

TMO with my custom mods, part of my upcoming TMO update.
Since a test mission, used auto target.


So a long term issues from SH stock and into most mods has been the inability to properly conduct submarine in the night surface attack role. This is primarily due the night times being far too light on typical night. In TMO where to make sure escorts are challenging when hunting subs submerged, aggressive etc all escorts are set to veteran skill level. With the oddly light nights, they have Hawkeyes and night surface attacks have to be conduct from long ranges and can't get inside the screen etc. Only way to fix this was to nerf the visuals, which then make them a bit too easy.

Long ago a member of community created a darker nights for TMO that worked wonders. I lost it on my old hard drive and it was not uploaded and the member did not have it either as was on his old pc as well. Luckily, a fellow subsimmmer saw my post and uploaded a darker nights mod from 2014 (may be Armistead's?) and proud to say after some testing, it makes all the difference, without making the TMO escorts pushovers.

I just tested the mod in June 1944, against the convoy Tang attacked on night of June 24/25 in shallows of Koshiki Straits ( I added this convoy as part of upgrade) as it approached Nagasaki. This convoy was six large ships escorted by 12 escorts, in two rings. Now, in the sim they form one large ring, but still until now, impossible to get inside the screen, attack, and if manage to get lucky and do that, impossible to get out without being shot to pieces because it was simply not dark enough to hide, which subs were able to do , their low visibility at night was a major advtange.

An escort moved out of position to check the flanks as they do and I slide into that positon slowly, I was 1900 yards on the bow of a Type D escort, showing my stern. paralleling the merchants in the center for a time. Obviously this was a test mission so I really pushed things, showing broadsides, speeding up etc and in the dark of night was not spotted. I turned to starboard and closed, attacking the fire column of merchants. Fired three at a large troopship and three at a tanker from 2000 yards. Turned away prior to impact, not spotted, large explosions illuminated me as did star shells. Took some gunfire, shell splashes around , radar showed escorts rushing in. I sped off into the night, Main worry was a DE rushing in 3000 yards to port, to the scene of the sinking ships as I fled away. I momentarily dropped speed to cut my wake, he passed on by. I sped back up looking to get out of the "circle" through a gap. Seems a radar equipped escort detected me as APR 1 RWR was going off, we continued to sped away and he lost us.

I moved out for torpedo reload and to assess situation. I then proceed to work my way back inside the screen but was spotted by an aux subchaser at 1700 yards, which opened fire and tried to chase us, but was able to outrun him into darkness. Finally after an hour ws able to sneak back into the convoy fired six bow tubes at second column from 5000 yards and four after at closer target, a large DAKAR MARU merchant. Then sped off, all three targets hit, two sunk, one dead in water. Escorts were all over this time with star shells, Radar equipped one detected me as I tried to slip away, gunfire falling but none closed. Should be noted had just 47 ft below keel, so diving was not an option. Just as I seemed to be clear, out of nowhere came a Matsu class DE closing fast, radar beam flashing the APR. Kicked in the speed as much as possible, breaking 21 knots at one points loading stern tubes in case need to down a down the throat shot. The DE and two escorts behind him chased for some time but since could not spot me, slowly gave up.

After pulling away, could tell had sunk 3 ships, left another dead in water. There were now two left. I it was 0434, been at it since 2300. I decided to move in for one last attack, then head on to finish off the cripple if needed.

After some tense moments, including passing 2100 yards in front of and 1800 behind escorts(I was in the middle, slowly falling into position) and continued on. I found a 9000 ton KOBAYASHI MARU merchant closed to 2100 yards and fired four mark 14's , then went all back full. Torpedoes hit and the merchant was left on fire, drifting, then quickly went under.

Deciding to test the AI, I tried to exit in direction of shallows instead of the deep, riding 5000 yards off cost, esp wary of a promontory which likely had shore batteries. Enemy escorts focused on scene of the sinksings and the seward side, ignoring the starboard side somewhat, in the extreme shallows I slid on by even after tense moments when a previously unseen (or detected on SJ, but it was a clutter) laying to, listening for submerged targets, was about 3000 yards away and suddenly began moving, firing star shells. Then, it dropped depth charges lol. Continued on until lookouts spotted a shore battery, forcing to abandoned the route planned.

The best way out was two escorts, separated by 5000 yards, tooling around searching but along the way, could administer the coup de grace to the freighter from earlier, which I did. The two escorts came looking, one spotted my sub and chased, firing. ID as a Etorofu Class Escort. Had one or two close shells but soon lost sight of us, kept pursuing for 10 nm then turned around.

We escaped with four ships confirmed sunk. I believe it was five but sim did not give credit? It happens at times, there was a grey ship sunk marker.


I am beyond stoked that this sort of thing is now possible in TMO. The visuals are set to default TMO so they are still a threat, but with the dark nights, can now use the subs low visibility to players advantage.

One note is need to test this again when have chance to edit the convoy. When created this convoy(which spawns once, and arrives in the area attacked by tang at historically correct date and time) I set the escorts skill levels to mostly novice and competent, with a few set to poor. This was a fix for this situations along with some nerfing of the visuals prior to having the dark nights. Now this tested was conducted (as mentioned) with the default TMO visual sensors, but will test with most escorts to set veteran and competent, and all set to veteran. I suspect it will still be possible since the light setting in the sim.cfg will be same and the nights dark, perhaps they will be a bit more aggressive . May reduce the spacing. O Kane's book and war patrol describes the convoy as having pretty decent spacing, so did so in the sim.

Screenshots below. Imgur won't work for some reason.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IN...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uA...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5z...-no?authuser=0
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Old 02-26-2021, 03:49 AM   #2
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I find FOTRS to be pretty realistic in rain and night so far. What does yours do better?
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Old 02-26-2021, 01:02 PM   #3
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I find FOTRS to be pretty realistic in rain and night so far. What does yours do better?
I would not characterize it as better and certainly not in competition, this is a collaborative community. Simply, long TMO saved SH 4 for me (any many others) as I was bored with the ease of the AI and annoyed with various bugs, missing options, etc and since it's creator has been absent from the community for a long time and not supporting the mod, I decided to provide an upgrade. This long standing issue is one I have sought to fix.

I enjoy FOTRS and watch as it develops, and play it to check out things but my custom TMO install ( the basis of the upgrade) is stable, works fine, and even provides individual things that other mods do not, yet. However, while have played FOTRS and can pull off some night surface attacks, have not been able to move inside a convoy screen like this etc. Which is why I posted, it's something that has been missing. Especially on a "normal" night. Rain etc is one thing but typical night in the game, can pull off night surface attacks and from the ranges they typically did, not the 3500-5000 yards had to before. Other side, darker nights forces the player to get in close so can actually see their target. With the 3d TDC and Radar mod in TMO, radar only shots from long range are possible, I've done it a few times (think USS Jack in April 1944 against the Take Ichi Convoy) but not something can do every time.
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:50 AM   #4
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This looks very interesting BH, I am stil using TMO for a bunch of reasons so would ike to try your mod.

Lack of realistic night attacks has been one of my pet peeves about this game.
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Old 03-01-2021, 04:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat View Post
This looks very interesting BH, I am stil using TMO for a bunch of reasons so would ike to try your mod.

Lack of realistic night attacks has been one of my pet peeves about this game.
Absolutely a pet peeve of mine as well.

Its great, did not have a chance to run further tests this weekend but going to this evening.

The darker nights mod is in the SH 4 downloads section.
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Old 03-02-2021, 04:04 PM   #6
Bubblehead1980
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Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat View Post
This looks very interesting BH, I am stil using TMO for a bunch of reasons so would ike to try your mod.

Lack of realistic night attacks has been one of my pet peeves about this game.

Update: With escorts skill set to competent, can still pull off getting inside screen on a dark night but not as easy. I decided to push it for testing purposes as opposed to how would have pulled off in normal career and was spotted. Upside is is with dark nights they are not as accurate with gunfire, also one near miss did some minor damage. Used Mark 18's in stern tubes to sink one pursuing escort and cripple another. Slipped into the dark night, worked way inside the screen an hour later and sunk a large tanker and troopship, evaded searching escorts, moved in on a large merchant and fired four mark 23 torpedoes. Would have sunk her and survived by a circle run torpedo got me, flooded stern torpedo room and engine rooms, went down by stern and hit bottom at 200 feet. Escorts searching area detected ons onar, depth charged for 3 hours until finished boat off.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:16 PM   #7
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Bubble, I doubt it's the one I made, tho I gave it to a few people to test by email. I did have it about where I wanted and life issues hit, sick father that finally passed, ended up moving and just never played again. It was a year later when I settled and just got me a laptop. I have that old PC in the basement and I need to pull the drive and see if I can still get my mods off. I actually bought a decent DT to play again, even loaded the game and did a round, but about it. I mostly played with the Env files for night to darken colors, then adjusted moonlight factors to fine tune vision range with the goal of getting a realistic look. I didn't want to mess with TMO's visual sensors that would impact the 24 hr cycle. It worked pretty good cuz you could actually get in close and turned around about 1200 yards on a moonless night with competent settings, about 1700 yards if vet.. if you could get around escorts. It always bothered me at night in TMO I could see ships long before my crew would see them, but I got it to where crew would see them at night about 3500 yards as I recall and call them out before I could see them about 500 yards difference. I thought this was fine since they were on watch higher on the shears. I also cut all the searchlights off for merchants and large warships. It was just always easy for me to locate and get a stad reading using the searchlight as an aiming point. I also adjusted the searchlights on escorts angled down a tad more. With RSRD I recall crew ratings became more vet mid war, so it was always interesting, cuz competent to vet was about a 500 yard visual increase.
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Old 03-03-2021, 02:00 PM   #8
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Bubble, I doubt it's the one I made, tho I gave it to a few people to test by email. I did have it about where I wanted and life issues hit, sick father that finally passed, ended up moving and just never played again. It was a year later when I settled and just got me a laptop. I have that old PC in the basement and I need to pull the drive and see if I can still get my mods off. I actually bought a decent DT to play again, even loaded the game and did a round, but about it. I mostly played with the Env files for night to darken colors, then adjusted moonlight factors to fine tune vision range with the goal of getting a realistic look. I didn't want to mess with TMO's visual sensors that would impact the 24 hr cycle. It worked pretty good cuz you could actually get in close and turned around about 1200 yards on a moonless night with competent settings, about 1700 yards if vet.. if you could get around escorts. It always bothered me at night in TMO I could see ships long before my crew would see them, but I got it to where crew would see them at night about 3500 yards as I recall and call them out before I could see them about 500 yards difference. I thought this was fine since they were on watch higher on the shears. I also cut all the searchlights off for merchants and large warships. It was just always easy for me to locate and get a stad reading using the searchlight as an aiming point. I also adjusted the searchlights on escorts angled down a tad more. With RSRD I recall crew ratings became more vet mid war, so it was always interesting, cuz competent to vet was about a 500 yard visual increase.

I assumed may be yours because do not recall anyone else making a darker nights mod and was told while author was unknown it was uploaded in 2014, who knows. Works very well, actually something I like is it also affects the players ability to identify most ships from 7000 yards at night lol With my "real scopes" mod which increased the zoom level for scopes TBT and binoculars (felt the default zoom was not enough) because it is dark. For those who can't handle this aspect but like the darker nights allowing better surface attacks, can turn gamma up a little in visual options and it helps without taking away. Of course there is always the trusty ID target button, which I used to hate but I think is okay now because during actual attack, skipper would describe target to the targeting party, they would skim through the id manual and show the skipper, then decide what the target was. Personally, I use it sparingly.

Typical night surface attack I now safely fire from 2000-2500 yards(preferred range in real life) on surface, this typically permits at least a tentative identification possible, depends on how dark the night is. I can also make the turn away if needed without getting slaughtered typically. This is the preferred range. As mentioned I am able to slip inside the screen if necessary, which is a gamble but it is possible to do so safely. I want to test with a full screen of escorts set to veteran to compare to last but imagine its what you said.


I considered eliminating searchlights on merchants but thing is they do need them sometimes. Example. In last test after sinking two merchants inside screen, I was hauling to get away from escorts rushing in and a merchant ahead was 700 yards away. Well, alerted to the attack but with his light off, spotted me, put the light on me and opened fire. I had the 40 MM manned in case of this situation and opened fire. Caught topside on fire and silenced the guns (assume killed the gun crews) but did not sink her nor would spotlight cut out. I am sure the spotlight could be made easier to destroy, lets face it they were delicate pieces of equipment against gunfire lol. I have not seen the behavior used to where they all turn on spotlights at night and tool around, giving away position, not sure if has to do with my modifications. It may be that in TMO convoys, by default most merchant skill levels are set to veteran the entire war. I left it mostly like this in early war but in late 43-44 , when night surface and large convoys become a real factor in attacks, lowered most to competent for a balance. This balance reflects the losses the merchant fleet certainly suffered of experienced crews and also permits the type of play without making things too easy. For singles though, most remain at the vet level. I also removed hydrophones from most merchants, some had them but not all.

I'm almost ready to release, just putting things together into a package for its easy to enable. I have other things want to do but this will do for now. A major issue seems to have been resolved. Sure you will enjoy the TMO update.
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Old 03-08-2021, 11:17 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
I would not characterize it as better and certainly not in competition, this is a collaborative community. Simply, long TMO saved SH 4 for me (any many others) as I was bored with the ease of the AI and annoyed with various bugs, missing options, etc and since it's creator has been absent from the community for a long time and not supporting the mod, I decided to provide an upgrade. This long standing issue is one I have sought to fix.

I enjoy FOTRS and watch as it develops, and play it to check out things but my custom TMO install ( the basis of the upgrade) is stable, works fine, and even provides individual things that other mods do not, yet. However, while have played FOTRS and can pull off some night surface attacks, have not been able to move inside a convoy screen like this etc. Which is why I posted, it's something that has been missing. Especially on a "normal" night. Rain etc is one thing but typical night in the game, can pull off night surface attacks and from the ranges they typically did, not the 3500-5000 yards had to before. Other side, darker nights forces the player to get in close so can actually see their target. With the 3d TDC and Radar mod in TMO, radar only shots from long range are possible, I've done it a few times (think USS Jack in April 1944 against the Take Ichi Convoy) but not something can do every time.
I apologize, I didn't mean for my comment to come off the way it did. Is your mod compatible with FOTRS? That's one thing that's always irked me too. I read a lot of naval books, and how subs maneuvered on the surface so close to ships at night, and SH4 is a big disappointment in that area. Thanks!
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Old 03-08-2021, 12:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 1Patriotofmany View Post
I apologize, I didn't mean for my comment to come off the way it did. Is your mod compatible with FOTRS? That's one thing that's always irked me too. I read a lot of naval books, and how subs maneuvered on the surface so close to ships at night, and SH4 is a big disappointment in that area. Thanks!
To the FotRS teams credit (which there isn't a lot of them, as there 1st was.. as I understand it...) are still working on it, to get everything working in a cohesive manner. Which takes a lot of trial & error, Is sometimes they take 1 step forward, only to have some oddity drag them back 1, 2 or more steps.. that they then have to work on & see of figuring out just what is causing it. That takes even more time.

Is still some improvements that I would like to see, but.. having done coding back in the day (old school, but coding nonetheless) dinking about in files, is no mean feat or easy, for that matter. 1 slip up, misplacing a letter,, adding in a space where it shouldn't be.. or not placing 1... a left out period, or what ever other odd ball bit of code, can & will bollux things... from anything to a CTD to seeing weird end results like... a ship flying like superman across the seas... and that's just from what I recall with the old style coding...

propbeanie, did say that there were other stuff that they were wanting to include in FotRS & it could well be that 1 of them, is the issue as you brought it up as.. of not being able to close in & do night attacking. So, just because it isn't in there yet... doesn't mean it won't... it could well be on the plot board to be included.

As I understand it, FotRS is built on the bones & some framing bodywork, of TMO... (which 1 exactly, am not sure 100%, I believe iirc 1.7, I think... ) I know that some (if not quite a lot of mods) that were built around the use for TMO, did work with FotRS... though, what that percentage would be now... I think is down in the dumps. That's not to say that Bubbleheads mod wouldn't work with FotRS.

Best advice... before adding it in, make a back up copy of your FotRS save folder... & keep it safely tucked away.. then & only then, add into MODS Bubbleheads mod & activate... then test it out.

If it works fine without causing errors, CTD's, or weird flying saucers to appear wreaking havoc on the world... (sorry, Me weird sense of humor rearing its head... ) then you know it works... & can heave a sigh of relief...

If not, then can always shart can the save folder & then take your backup & drop it back in place. Of course, after deactivating & shart canning the mod...

Any way, hope this info helps...

M. M.

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Old 03-08-2021, 12:04 PM   #11
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Good idea sir I probably will give that a shot.
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Old 03-09-2021, 08:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
TMO with my custom mods, part of my upcoming TMO update.
Since a test mission, used auto target.


So a long term issues from SH stock and into most mods has been the inability to properly conduct submarine in the night surface attack role. This is primarily due the night times being far too light on typical night. In TMO where to make sure escorts are challenging when hunting subs submerged, aggressive etc all escorts are set to veteran skill level. With the oddly light nights, they have Hawkeyes and night surface attacks have to be conduct from long ranges and can't get inside the screen etc. Only way to fix this was to nerf the visuals, which then make them a bit too easy.

Long ago a member of community created a darker nights for TMO that worked wonders. I lost it on my old hard drive and it was not uploaded and the member did not have it either as was on his old pc as well. Luckily, a fellow subsimmmer saw my post and uploaded a darker nights mod from 2014 (may be Armistead's?) and proud to say after some testing, it makes all the difference, without making the TMO escorts pushovers.

I just tested the mod in June 1944, against the convoy Tang attacked on night of June 24/25 in shallows of Koshiki Straits ( I added this convoy as part of upgrade) as it approached Nagasaki. This convoy was six large ships escorted by 12 escorts, in two rings. Now, in the sim they form one large ring, but still until now, impossible to get inside the screen, attack, and if manage to get lucky and do that, impossible to get out without being shot to pieces because it was simply not dark enough to hide, which subs were able to do , their low visibility at night was a major advtange.

An escort moved out of position to check the flanks as they do and I slide into that positon slowly, I was 1900 yards on the bow of a Type D escort, showing my stern. paralleling the merchants in the center for a time. Obviously this was a test mission so I really pushed things, showing broadsides, speeding up etc and in the dark of night was not spotted. I turned to starboard and closed, attacking the fire column of merchants. Fired three at a large troopship and three at a tanker from 2000 yards. Turned away prior to impact, not spotted, large explosions illuminated me as did star shells. Took some gunfire, shell splashes around , radar showed escorts rushing in. I sped off into the night, Main worry was a DE rushing in 3000 yards to port, to the scene of the sinking ships as I fled away. I momentarily dropped speed to cut my wake, he passed on by. I sped back up looking to get out of the "circle" through a gap. Seems a radar equipped escort detected me as APR 1 RWR was going off, we continued to sped away and he lost us.

I moved out for torpedo reload and to assess situation. I then proceed to work my way back inside the screen but was spotted by an aux subchaser at 1700 yards, which opened fire and tried to chase us, but was able to outrun him into darkness. Finally after an hour ws able to sneak back into the convoy fired six bow tubes at second column from 5000 yards and four after at closer target, a large DAKAR MARU merchant. Then sped off, all three targets hit, two sunk, one dead in water. Escorts were all over this time with star shells, Radar equipped one detected me as I tried to slip away, gunfire falling but none closed. Should be noted had just 47 ft below keel, so diving was not an option. Just as I seemed to be clear, out of nowhere came a Matsu class DE closing fast, radar beam flashing the APR. Kicked in the speed as much as possible, breaking 21 knots at one points loading stern tubes in case need to down a down the throat shot. The DE and two escorts behind him chased for some time but since could not spot me, slowly gave up.

After pulling away, could tell had sunk 3 ships, left another dead in water. There were now two left. I it was 0434, been at it since 2300. I decided to move in for one last attack, then head on to finish off the cripple if needed.

After some tense moments, including passing 2100 yards in front of and 1800 behind escorts(I was in the middle, slowly falling into position) and continued on. I found a 9000 ton KOBAYASHI MARU merchant closed to 2100 yards and fired four mark 14's , then went all back full. Torpedoes hit and the merchant was left on fire, drifting, then quickly went under.

Deciding to test the AI, I tried to exit in direction of shallows instead of the deep, riding 5000 yards off cost, esp wary of a promontory which likely had shore batteries. Enemy escorts focused on scene of the sinksings and the seward side, ignoring the starboard side somewhat, in the extreme shallows I slid on by even after tense moments when a previously unseen (or detected on SJ, but it was a clutter) laying to, listening for submerged targets, was about 3000 yards away and suddenly began moving, firing star shells. Then, it dropped depth charges lol. Continued on until lookouts spotted a shore battery, forcing to abandoned the route planned.

The best way out was two escorts, separated by 5000 yards, tooling around searching but along the way, could administer the coup de grace to the freighter from earlier, which I did. The two escorts came looking, one spotted my sub and chased, firing. ID as a Etorofu Class Escort. Had one or two close shells but soon lost sight of us, kept pursuing for 10 nm then turned around.

We escaped with four ships confirmed sunk. I believe it was five but sim did not give credit? It happens at times, there was a grey ship sunk marker.


I am beyond stoked that this sort of thing is now possible in TMO. The visuals are set to default TMO so they are still a threat, but with the dark nights, can now use the subs low visibility to players advantage.

One note is need to test this again when have chance to edit the convoy. When created this convoy(which spawns once, and arrives in the area attacked by tang at historically correct date and time) I set the escorts skill levels to mostly novice and competent, with a few set to poor. This was a fix for this situations along with some nerfing of the visuals prior to having the dark nights. Now this tested was conducted (as mentioned) with the default TMO visual sensors, but will test with most escorts to set veteran and competent, and all set to veteran. I suspect it will still be possible since the light setting in the sim.cfg will be same and the nights dark, perhaps they will be a bit more aggressive . May reduce the spacing. O Kane's book and war patrol describes the convoy as having pretty decent spacing, so did so in the sim.

Screenshots below. Imgur won't work for some reason.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IN...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uA...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5z...-no?authuser=0
Hi BubbleHead, are you still planning to release your campaign additions for RSRDC? I seem to remember you talking about some changes you'd made a while ago, new convoys and merchant traffic etc.
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Old 03-09-2021, 02:30 PM   #13
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Hi BubbleHead, are you still planning to release your campaign additions for RSRDC? I seem to remember you talking about some changes you'd made a while ago, new convoys and merchant traffic etc.


Unfortunately, all of that work was lost when old PC crashed. I thought I had backed them up, apparently not. Then was away from SH 4 for a while, busy with life. COVID gave me more time last year. I kept getting a CTD with RSRD for some reason so went to TMO only, which was in bad need of a facelift. I got RSRD working again but missed the challenge of TMO so came up with the idea to improve TMO alone. I have reworked the traffic, which is akin to RSRD in many ways, created a ship pack, which uses many of the RSRD ships so they are in TMO. I added the major and even some minor battles esp in Solomons in 43/43/ Air strikes by carrier forces, Hailstone etc. Amazing all I completed actually in short time last summer when quarantining at home lol. I'm about 98% finished, few tweaks left, basically just merging everything into one package, which is in itself time consuming. I did just discover. With night surface attacks possible now, as described above, really takes things to a new level. I'm on a test patrol in April 1944 now, having a blast.
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Old 03-10-2021, 06:48 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
Unfortunately, all of that work was lost when old PC crashed. I thought I had backed them up, apparently not. Then was away from SH 4 for a while, busy with life. COVID gave me more time last year. I kept getting a CTD with RSRD for some reason so went to TMO only, which was in bad need of a facelift. I got RSRD working again but missed the challenge of TMO so came up with the idea to improve TMO alone. I have reworked the traffic, which is akin to RSRD in many ways, created a ship pack, which uses many of the RSRD ships so they are in TMO. I added the major and even some minor battles esp in Solomons in 43/43/ Air strikes by carrier forces, Hailstone etc. Amazing all I completed actually in short time last summer when quarantining at home lol. I'm about 98% finished, few tweaks left, basically just merging everything into one package, which is in itself time consuming. I did just discover. With night surface attacks possible now, as described above, really takes things to a new level. I'm on a test patrol in April 1944 now, having a blast.
That's a shame to hear dude, sorry about that. Must have been a kick in the teeth to lose everything!

Would you say your new TMO mod is roughly parallel with RSRDC then? In terms of convoys/task forces etc?

Where did you get the data to add the new convoys in for your previous mod? Is it available for me to add in myself?
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Old 03-10-2021, 03:13 PM   #15
Bubblehead1980
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Originally Posted by BritTorrent View Post
That's a shame to hear dude, sorry about that. Must have been a kick in the teeth to lose everything!

Would you say your new TMO mod is roughly parallel with RSRDC then? In terms of convoys/task forces etc?

Where did you get the data to add the new convoys in for your previous mod? Is it available for me to add in myself?
Yes, it was a bit disheartening to say the least lol but it happens.

Yes, the TMO traffic is in many ways RSRD "inspired", especially as pertains to warships. One thing is I added many merchant and warshships, so not such a limited roast. I rewrote the task force layers in TMO, no random allied style IJN task forces roaming the seas just waiting to be ambushed. Using tabular record of movements (which Lurker used for RSRD I believe) looking at RSRD task force layers, many major warships such as Yamato, and fleet carriers for example appear at historical time and place, only spawn once then end their journey. A lot of the back and forth movements Yamato and Musashi did 42-44 from home islands to Truk are there. Then they are at Singapore (Linga Roads anchorage. Which btw is challenging to attempt to infiltrate, since have placed mines on the surface in the unguarded areas and guard vessels/patrols in the area) and then they move to Tawi Tawi per history. I did this with many of the CA and CL's as well, especially those sunk by submarines. Example: Feb 15 1944 Agano left Truk escorted by DD Oite and was torpedoed by Skate 150 NM NW of Truk, went dead in water and sunk later that day. I added the Agano and its DD, they leave port and are at historic time and place when Skate made contact, so player can attack. A few random appearances by some of the lesser warships to keep it fresh as well but the groups were changed.

One example was my last patrol in April 1944 in Luzon Straits. I was down to three torpedoes in aft room when SD made contact. Plane was heading our way so dove to 100 feet. While down there my sonar sweep, heard heavy screws in distance, set intercept course. Surfaced after a few and headed that direction at flank speed. SJ made contact...two pips in center with three escorts and RWR was showing radar emissions from that bearing. . At 10 NM could see had two warships with three DD type escorts. While trying to get ahead, pesky plane kept coming in, it was obviously escorting them. Pulled the plug ended up having to fire from 7100 yards, two out of three hit the the heavy cruiser (Takao Class). I believe this was a random group added but if recall it had a small chance of spawning. The whole point is to make it where it's skill and luck (as in real life) if end up in position. I have also added ULTRA messages alerting player where to look for certain ships and enemy submarines. Still can't get enemy submarines to show up on SJ radar but I did add radar to the AI sub at proper date and time so can detect their emissions such as how Batfish sunk three subs in Feb 1945. Next step is to add AI torpedo firing submarines.

I also recreated the battles within the sim.... Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, Santa Cruz, Naval Battles of Guadalcanal Philippine Sea, Leyte Gulf are all there. Other suchare present as well such as various surface engagements in solomons....vella gulf, cape st george, cape Esperance, Empress August Bay, as in RSRD. Fun story when was testing in the Coral Sea, looking for IJN carrier force, it was dark and of course no radar. I thought for sure managed to work myself into position on Shokaku or Zuikaku and would torpedo them just as the sun was rising on May 8th, but as was closing in to fire and raised scope at 2800 yards, tubes flooded,....I had Lexington in my sights. lol but I like that experience is there, the fog so to speak.


Merchant traffic wise...

Singles disappear except for rare local runs in September 44 and they hug the coast. One exception is the Yellow Sea, where during Tangs patrol in June July 44 most were running unescorted, felt safe due to shallows and most were close to the coast.


I added traffic in areas that were void but should have traffic. One example The Palau-Japan routes in the philippine sea for example were very busy sea lanes until US invaded Marianas in June. Also fun is this is as close to open ocean i.e. Atlantic style submarine warfare player can get.

I did major reworking of convoys as well, RSRD inspired. First I altered the composition. TMO had a basic formula of early war convoys were 2-4 ships with 2-3 escorts, usually 3. While most convoys are random in the type of ships, their composition was changed to reflect the stage of war. So early war, there are convoys, but not as many since many single still running around and japanese had not instituted a real convoy system, it was very localized and dependent on the value assigned. Most convoys in early war will be 2-3, sometimes 4 ships, with one escort, sometimes 2, rarely three.

Mid war you seem improvement with most having two escorts. Around September 43 you see a more uniform (reflecting when Japan started an actual escort command) and larger convoys. Once June 44 comes around, larger convoys more escorts, with peaking around Aug-November 44. In October, per history, the Singapore-Japan N/S convoy routes due shift to the Indochina/China coast, which means patrolling in the shallows. Luckily with the dark nights mod now available, night surface attacks are possible. In 1945 you will notice a high escort to merchant ratio, since they were short on merchants by this point.

While most convoy traffic is random, there are numerous specific convoys that spawn once. One that comes to mind is the Tang...the convoy she attacked in October 44 and was lost to when firing her final torpedo, it is there, as is the 12 escort 6 ship convoy attacked on June 24/25 1944 when slipped inside the screen. I added it and with dark nights mod, it is possible. All of this in shallow coastal wars of course.

I could go on and on and frankly off top of head don't remember all of my changes, I made a change log which will include with the release.


I got the data from various sources....O Kane, Fluckey etc's memoirs, some of RSRD's documentation, combinedfleet.net, war patrol reports of various boats etc.
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