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Old 05-10-20, 08:17 AM   #16
Onkel Neal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET2SN View Post
BTW, here's a little thought experiment you may want to try.

Go to a store that has salespeople. Go in and tell one of them the following:

"I'm looking for a new computer for my Mom/Aunt. She needs something to play Mah Jong, watch YouTube, and drive my wife up a wall with e-mails, what have you got that won't break my budget?"

:
Hmmm... I think that will be like "What can you tell me about a strange rash right around the back of the thigh... asking for a friend."

I'm slowly getting back up to speed on PCs. In the 90s I had everything memorized, but it was a bit simpler then, for sure. Trouble is, once I know all the ins and outs of M.2 and NVMe SSDs, the flavors of Double Data Rate Synchronous Dynamic Random-Access Memory, and ALC662 audio codecs.... I'll buy a PC and lose track of the updates in the teck industory for 5 years until I go to buy another PC.

But you guys have done a great job of helping me dial down what I think I need!!
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Old 05-10-20, 11:28 AM   #17
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OK, check this out for a minute:

https://www.amazon.com/Acer-TC-885-U...9122909&sr=8-7

Notice I found it by searching for "basic computer desktop".

Now, let's take a look at what you get for $400. Its pretty bare bones, the keyboard and mouse look cheap and there's a lot of info we're not seeing, like why the graphics card isn't listed (there isn't one) and what the power supply is rated to (I'm guessing its at the low end of the quality scale).

Still, you are getting:

- 9th Generation Intel Core i3 9100 Processor (Up to 4. 2GHz)
This is a nice CPU, its just a tad on the old side but it clocks at 4.2 Gigs.

-8GB DDR4 Memory, 512GB SSD & 8x DVD Writer Double Layer Drive (DVD RW)

Again, its bare bones but its not that bad. You've got a 1/2 terabyte SSD , 8 Gigs of DDR4 RAM, and they even throw in a DVD player.

What they don't talk about is the power supply, but its mostly safe to assume that you can throw a mid-range GPU/video card into the box without too many problems. You also get a licensed copy of Win 10. Since they don't say what flavor of Win 10 Home it is, assume its 32 bit.

..and you're in the hole for 400 bucks. This is a stock, low dollar system aimed at students and small business. It just needs to work, it doesn't have to look sexy.

The downside will come when you open the tower and look at the mother board. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts its a mini (or even a micro) ATX board. It probably doesn't have any extra connections for a traditional hard drive (but its older tech so it might) and its probably glued or pop riveted to the case.
These are not "boutique" towers.

So, why would you want something like this? Its dependable. It has to be, the company would be suicidal to sell junk at this price range.
It can be tricky, but it is upgrade-able. Find a video card the power supply can run, or throw a larger power supply at it. The odds are 50/50 (IMO) there's a second RAM slot on the mother board. For a generic "gaming/home" rig you really don't need 16 gigs of RAM, but its not a big deal if you do.

You're in the hole for 400 bucks. That leaves $1600 before you get to your old $2000 plateau. That's plenty of spare change to sink into a monitor and a graphics card. And a good keyboard and mouse. And another SSD or a remote hard drive. And several cases of beer.

See where this is going? Am I saying to buy this tower? #### no, please no. But this is already a LOT cheaper than what you were looking at.

There are a LOT of good deals out there, you just have to find them.

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Old 05-10-20, 08:02 PM   #18
Onkel Neal
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I'm studying the available components, and I don't really care about a case that lights up like a christmas tree. But I do want at least an i7 variant, that much I'm sure. I can spend more than $400, I will probably use it for at least 5 years.
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Old 05-10-20, 08:18 PM   #19
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Use SSD hard drives ... they boot faster

and maybe more ram memory you are at

Quote:
16GB (8GBx2) DDR4/3000MHz Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Vengeance)
but the board has four slots so go for four (4) 8gb or (2) 16gb

remember this is for 2025

who's going to put it together for you?

I would pay someone to put the MB/CPU together and the rest is easy mostly labor of waiting for the Window's 10 (yuck) to boot and claim you for the rest of your life.

I hear they even want your cell phone number now.
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Old 05-10-20, 10:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
But I do want at least an i7 variant, that much I'm sure.
Can I ask why?

M$ has already announced the minimum specs for the new M$FS (aka: flight sim) and its an i5 CPU.
That's for M$FS, which probably won't be ready for this year. Which will tax a lot more hardware than the CPU. Which will require a very broad and very fast internet connection. Which I'm really not interested in.

Traditionally, new M$ flight sims are designed for hardware and clock speeds that don't exist yet. Still, they're saying an i5 can run it.


If you're planning to do some multi-tasking (while you're gaming) I can see the i7. For a pure gaming system, its still over kill.

That brings up one last point to ponder.

Let's suppose that AMD and Intel get into a serious price war and suddenly the price of hardware (all hardware) drops though the floor. Everything gets cheap, would it be a good idea to "yolo" your new hardware and go for broke?

Remember, more power requires more power. And, someone will have to pay for that extra power when the utility bill shows up.

That was what broke the small bitcoin "farmers". They were paying more for electricity than the machines were earning.
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Old 05-11-20, 08:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
Use SSD hard drives ... they boot faster
Oh yeah, I certainly agree. I made sure when I chose my current Dell XPS15 laptop to get an SSD drive, boots up and into Windows in about 7 seconds.

Quote:
Can I ask why?
Instinctively I go for the upper 2/3 of the current tech tree, I guess. I mean, if I'm going to spend money, I want to make sure I don't have any regrets.

Your feedback has been super helpful! I really think you are right, there's no need to reach for the high end. I mean, if you had not stepped in, I would be building a super computer

Seems like you're right, I keep seeing build videos and the AMD 5 is what they reach for.



Quote:
Let's suppose that AMD and Intel get into a serious price war and suddenly the price of hardware (all hardware) drops though the floor. Everything gets cheap, would it be a good idea to "yolo" your new hardware and go for broke?
Ha! The Rules of the Universe will only allow that to happen 91 days after I buy my system.

Hmmm... is there a chance this could happen?
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Old 05-11-20, 09:05 AM   #22
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^ I seem to remember Gary ( GT182 ) built an 8 core AMD Ryzen unit fairly cheaply and liked it very much. He had said it would run anything he was doing and anything that he would anticipate in the future.

That may be the way to go and put more money into a higher end video card and Ram to better enjoy your simulations.
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Old 05-11-20, 09:21 AM   #23
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Notice anything funny about that case in the video you posted, Neal?

It doesn't have any front panel slots anymore. I know I bought one.



Lucky I had an external USB DVD player, plus mine doesn't have enough fans

Make sure your case has enough fans ... for my budget I went with AMD CPU and AMD video card ... AMD makes a CPU that has the video on it which is great if your video card goes bad.

Good luck it is a learning curve in today's market ... read the reviews and try out the reviews on newegg too

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Old 05-11-20, 10:47 AM   #24
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Neal, I used to live this stuff. Actually, I used to be an EE/EET with the degree and everything.

I hate seeing people over-commit and over-buy tech hardware.

It always comes down to "what some guy said".

What guy?
"Dunno. I think it was a review I read."

Do they work for Intel or AMD? Sometimes they goof with people to get a better quarterly bonus.

"*Shrug*"





This hobby is famous for this stuff. Remember reading about sticking video cards in a 300 degree oven to "remelt the solder" and make them faster?
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Old 05-12-20, 07:30 AM   #25
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Yeah, I didn't think of that, that these build videos were likely to be sponsored.

And what is the deal with no front drive bays? I was joking about not having DVDs since my XPS15 did not have a dvd player but I see all mid tower cases are missing front drive bays..?

https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-pc-tower-cases

I do like the move to clean and elegant designs over the mech warrior cases.

Quote:
In the last few years, we've seen some clear trends among tower cases, too. Aggressive sci-fi and mecha themes were big for a while, but that has given way to subtler aesthetics: clean designs with neutral themes and an emphasis on the quality of external materials.

Last edited by Onkel Neal; 05-12-20 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 05-14-20, 09:15 AM   #26
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I just had to re-install Win 10 with some programs since my boot 'disk', a six-year-old Kingston SSD with 240 Gb, died.
I prefer those solid state disks meanwhile, they seem to work as long as normal HDs, but are way faster. They are also more expensive, but.. depends:
Bought a 500 Gb Samsung Evo for 80 Euros, also much faster than the old Kingston. Booting up Win 10 with all bells and whistles takes 10-12 seconds, shutdown appx. the same. I put all sim games on the SSD, and they runs smooth as silk.

Still have an older 4-core i4 working, at 3,8 GHz and with 16 Gb ram, with an old Nvidia.
Indeed i will rather get a faster graphics card than a new PC ..

Still use a normal mechanical HD for data, photos, correspondence and the like, and an external one via USB3 for backups. The latter one is easier in case than using the off-room NAS.

Go for a fast processor (3.8 to 4.7 GHz), the number of cores is not (yet) mandatory; few programs and games can use more than 2 anyway.
And use a good/fast graphic card.

If you use HighTec 3d-building things like Solidworks it will still do fast enough.
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Last edited by Catfish; 05-14-20 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 05-16-20, 09:30 AM   #27
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Yeah, I'm still researching. ET2SN and Quatro have been really helpful, probably talked me off the ledge of getting too much computer (I never thought there was such a thing).
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Old 05-18-20, 04:24 PM   #28
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Here's a nice case Neal for only $50 notice that it has plenty of fans and two front slots mine in post #23 is made more for water cooling which I don't trust or have. This one is sold out at newegg, but maybe you can get it somewhere else.

https://www.newegg.com/white-fractal...82E16811352067

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Old 05-20-20, 06:30 AM   #29
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Yeah, that's what I', looking for, especially like the white. Looks like a lot of components are out of stock, PSUs especially.
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Old 05-20-20, 07:34 AM   #30
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Hi Onkel Neal heres another thought on upgrading with a lot of new hardware coming out this summer maybe its a good idea to wait a while until late September then all the prices of the older Cpu's Gpu's M/b's Ram ect comes down in price.
Theres nothing worse than spending $1500-$2000 of your hard earned money on a new rig in May/June this year then by August same Rigs $1250-$1500 that would leave a bitter taste in ones mouth for sure also to get rid of the old stock giving you a freebie a good gaming keyboard and mouse.
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