fuel usage in FOTRSU

[Wrongway Malcolm]

I've had FOTRSU installed for about 2 patrols now. With FOTRS (noU) 1.3, I could cruise for from Pearl to Japan with a Gato, have a little fuel for tactical maneuvers and chasing at full or flank, and have just enough fuel to get home.

Since I installed FOTRSU, I've been able to cruise at 2/3 from Pearl with a Gato to Truk or beyond, maneuver an chase at full or flank, go to another patrol site, do the same, and get back to Pearl on 1/2 a tank of fuel. Seems like overly miserly fuel use. That's not normal FOTRSU behavior, is it?

I presume not, so what might be happening?


By the way, I've used time compression around x3000 for long distances in both FOTRS and FOTRSU. That wouldn't cause any issues, would it?

[propbeanie]

Had you cleared the Save folder contents after activating FotRSU, or used MultiSH4 to a new Save folder?

Generally speaking though, the FotRSU mod is more conservative in its fuel usage. The Gato might be capable of 12,000 nm travel without too much effort, and if you find the most efficient speed, might be able to get more from it. The game is very unforgiving if you run out of fuel, and while there are some inconvenient ways to get around running out, it was decided to go a little long, rather than a little short on fuel range for the mod.

[Nicolas]

ALso the world in SH have 'messed up distances' if i'm understanding right, because the world is flat and not a sphere, so distances away from the equator are the same as the equator? in sh3 for example, the distance between lorient and new york is like 10,000 km, while in reality is like 5400 km if i remember correctly...

[Wrongway Malcolm]

Thanks both of you for your replies. I did clear the saves directory before install. The issue of map distances not being comparable is interesting. I’ll have to compare distances more carefully, and make a run to Japan rather than southeast asia to see if that’s part of the issue.

While I’m at it I gotta say I love what FOTRSU has done to SH4!

[LUKNER]

All Gato-class boats are counted at a normal fuel reserve of 11,000 miles. But if you increase the fuel to the maximum, the range should definitely be higher. I have not yet documented maximum range data with maximum fuel reserve. Especially the system of diesel generators without rigid connection to the propeller shaft gives significant fuel savings.


According to my data, the normal fuel reserve is 175 tons maximum 300 tons. I believe that the documents everywhere have a range data of 11,000 miles at 175 tons of fuel, but nowhere is there a maximum range at 300 tons.


For example, at 350 tons of KD6B Class fuel, Japanese Submarines 10,000 nautical miles (19,000 km) at 16 knots surfaced is significantly superior to Gato???



http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/K/d/KD6B_class.htm

[Wrongway Malcolm]

Thanks all for the answers. Here's what I've discovered re: map distances: A patrol to the Bismark Sea is between 3000 and 4000 nm. A patrol to Japan is more than 10x that distance. On the visual map, it looks like a patrol to the Bismark Sea is about as long distancewise as a patrol to Japan. But if you check the distances with the map ruler, you see immediately the distances that look equal are way way different. I'm sure 90% of my issue is this map issue. I have no doubt the FOTRSU conservative fuel use magnifies the issue a small amount. But I'm sure at this point, most of it is map projection issues. Map projection can make it seem like fuel usage is off, when it's not.

[Wrongway Malcolm]

I need to correct myself. I misread a decimal point using the ruler. The distance to Japan isn't 10x longer. It's more like 1/3 longer. But it is longer.

[Navelintel]

Hi All,

I just downloaded FOTRS Ulitmate Edition v1.0.1 and had another question regarding fuel consumption as I explore its many options. I noticed in the operational order at the beginning of one's career, there's mention of conserving fuel by running on the surface at night with 'one' engine. Is this possible or was it used to emphasize slower speeds for greater fuel efficiency?



I've been playing SH4 and many of its variants since 2007 but I don't recall seeing this instruction before or being able to execute it. Any thoughts, mates?

BTW, a very impressive Mega mod so, well done to all involved.

[propbeanie]

A US Fleetboat in the game is basically built on an SH3 U-boat, so it has two "engines" and two "shafts" that are joined at the hip. It would be nice if they simulated four engines and donkey, along with two separate shafts. If they had, then you could reverse one shaft and forward the other for quicker turns. With separate engines, you could designate one for charging and two for propulsion, or whatever combination you wanted. However, none of that is implemented in the game. Instructions such as those, like most everything put on "paper" in the game can be ignored and the player do as they please, with no penalty involved. Hence, that is just an "immersion" thing, similar to orders they received in December 1941. We will eventually include "instructions" from the 7th Fleet to use the magnetic and only the magnetic pistol, while Pearl will allow a skipper to defeat it, and only use the impact pistol. However, the game does not allow that either... oh well. We can at least make it seem like it can.

[Navelintel]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

A US Fleetboat in the game is basically built on an SH3 U-boat, so it has two "engines" and two "shafts" that are joined at the hip. It would be nice if they simulated four engines and donkey, along with two separate shafts. If they had, then you could reverse one shaft and forward the other for quicker turns. With separate engines, you could designate one for charging and two for propulsion, or whatever combination you wanted. However, none of that is implemented in the game. Instructions such as those, like most everything put on "paper" in the game can be ignored and the player do as they please, with no penalty involved. Hence, that is just an "immersion" thing, similar to orders they received in December 1941. We will eventually include "instructions" from the 7th Fleet to use the magnetic and only the magnetic pistol, while Pearl will allow a skipper to defeat it, and only use the impact pistol. However, the game does not allow that either... oh well. We can at least make it seem like it can.

Hi Propbeanie,

Thanks for the clarification. Nevertheless, I'm totally enjoying the immersion experience too!

[LUKNER]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

A US Fleetboat in the game is basically built on an SH3 U-boat, so it has two "engines" and two "shafts" that are joined at the hip. It would be nice if they simulated four engines and donkey, along with two separate shafts. If they had, then you could reverse one shaft and forward the other for quicker turns. With separate engines, you could designate one for charging and two for propulsion, or whatever combination you wanted. However, none of that is implemented in the game. Instructions such as those, like most everything put on "paper" in the game can be ignored and the player do as they please, with no penalty involved. Hence, that is just an "immersion" thing, similar to orders they received in December 1941. We will eventually include "instructions" from the 7th Fleet to use the magnetic and only the magnetic pistol, while Pearl will allow a skipper to defeat it, and only use the impact pistol. However, the game does not allow that either... oh well. We can at least make it seem like it can.

It not the main thing. Interestingly, the navigation range documents indicate that the maximum range for Gato boats is 11,000 miles. But this data is obtained with a normal fuel reserve of approximately 170 tons. The boat could take more fuel, up to 300 tons. How much could a boat with the maximum fuel reserve have passed? Where can you read the combat log of any of the commanders to highlight this question? Please forgive me in advance for my English translation.

[propbeanie]

There are several sites that have the War Patrol Reports. My favorite is The HNSA Section on them. They use a different reader than does the Maritime dot Org Section. I have been through quite a few of those reports, and I do not remember "fuel" being a subject in them very often. There are some supplement sheets amongst some of the reports, and you might be able to get a picture of how much they used a day from those. You could then extrapolate that out across their patrol time, and come up with how much they used...

[LUKNER]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

There are several sites that have the War Patrol Reports. My favorite is The HNSA Section on them. They use a different reader than does the Maritime dot Org Section. I have been through quite a few of those reports, and I do not remember "fuel" being a subject in them very often. There are some supplement sheets amongst some of the reports, and you might be able to get a picture of how much they used a day from those. You could then extrapolate that out across their patrol time, and come up with how much they used...

Thank you so much for your help! This information will improve fashion work.




https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=243564

[Bilge_Rat]

Fuel usage in SH4 is not realistic for a bunch of reasons.

1. since the map is flat and the Pacific is huge, some distances can be as much as 25% higher than in RL;

2. fuel usage at speed is faster or slower than in RL. As I understand it, this is because the game was originally designed for 2 engine Uboats, so it does not exactly match the fuel usage of 4 engine Fleet boats;

upshot is that if the fuel capacity in data is set to historical (i.e. 11-12,000 NM), you are at only 66-75% of the "real" fuel capacity for the game. Ducimus in TMO got around the problem, by bumping up the fuel capacity by 25% as I recall.

[Kal_Maximus_U669]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Fuel usage in SH4 is not realistic for a bunch of reasons.

1. since the map is flat and the Pacific is huge, some distances can be as much as 25% higher than in RL;

2. fuel usage at speed is faster or slower than in RL. As I understand it, this is because the game was originally designed for 2 engine Uboats, so it does not exactly match the fuel usage of 4 engine Fleet boats;

upshot is that if the fuel capacity in data is set to historical (i.e. 11-12,000 NM), you are at only 66-75% of the "real" fuel capacity for the game. Ducimus in TMO got around the problem, by bumping up the fuel capacity by 25% as I recall.

Yes I find that fuel has a problem too now I am not a sailor but I agree with you that it can be solar powered