[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

... - Are you maybe seeing a report on just the folder contents, which might not include the sub-folders' contents?? maybe??...

I suppose that's it. I looked at the size in the folder properties; then looked inside the folder at the files. I just assumed the overall folder size would include the files within when giving the folder size. Silly me!

[propbeanie]

Windoze can be strange like that, depending on the settings chosen ('View' menu??)...

[Thrackerzod]

Is it known, or has anybody attempted using any of the versions of the OTC mod with FOTRSU? As much as I'd love a version of OTC specifically for FOTRSU, I don't think its been updated since around 2011..

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Thrackerzod

Is it known, or has anybody attempted using any of the versions of the OTC mod with FOTRSU? As much as I'd love a version of OTC specifically for FOTRSU, I don't think its been updated since around 2011..

Optical Targeting Correction (OTC) is not compatible with Ultimate.

Too many new ship units to even come close to having a complete list of files that would correct the accuracy of Manual Targeting. Right now Ultimate is relying on players using Auto Targeting as a way to sink ships. It follows a different approach to torpedo firing than Manual Targeting and is reasonably accurate. Actually its "down to the yard" accurate....the only way you can screw up is with forgetting to open the torpedo doors!

I've glanced through the ship mast height figures for Ultimate (which is the bases for Manual Targeting calculations) and can tell you their off by the same misguided/inaccurate attempt as the Stock game!!

When using Manual Targeting, as before OTC, some ships units will miss their calculated distance to target by 50% due to the inaccurate given measurement of their mast height. An issue that can be fixed by a complete rework of ship measurement. Since there are so many ship units in Ultimate, this will be no small task! But doable.

My plan is to provide a NEW way to have the player "pick" a spot (other than a Mast Top) for Manual Targeting with the Stadimeter, and let that height figure be the calculation for reasonably accurate distance to target. It will take a reworking of the upper right hand "Attack Data Tool" to accomplish this....but that's my plan.


Right now I've been completely involved in just getting things within Ultimate to work as expected, I've not had the time to start on an OTC version for it.

[torpedobait]

Ran into this bad boy; quietly waited in ambush. Took just one Torpedo. Deserves a sailor's salute:

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

The place to make the switch is in the Library/ShipParts/whichever "TorpGun" you choose and open the .sim file to the Wpn_Cannon/Obj_Turret/Type= designation. Change the designation from "AA Gun" to "Cannon" and the gun model uses the Cannon distance.

scurvy,
i took your suggestion above and attempted to apply it to the Opmonsun mod for the XXI boats which have only 20mm/30mm turrets.

when i changed the turrets in C:\Ubisoft\SilentHunter4\Data\Library\GerSubParts\ Deck_Gun_GE20mm_Turret.sim

from AA to Cannon, CTD, every time.

so, i backed off that change and went on my merry way.
did i miss something in your explanation?

thanks.
mb



mb

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by mark bonamer

scurvy,
i took your suggestion above and attempted to apply it to the Opmonsun mod for the XXI boats which have only 20mm/30mm turrets.

when i changed the turrets in C:\Ubisoft\SilentHunter4\Data\Library\GerSubParts\ Deck_Gun_GE20mm_Turret.sim

from AA to Cannon, CTD, every time.

so, i backed off that change and went on my merry way.
did i miss something in your explanation?

thanks.
mb

My TorpGun (which fires a Torpedo) could be different for several reasons than the "Deck_Gun_GE20mm" you're referring to. Ammunition could be a factor; needing to change the ships .dat file? I don't know?? I'm not familiar with all possible gun parameters. I know what the Torpgun gun does because I worked with it for a solid 6 months to get it to do what it does. Changing the Obj_Turret "Type" seems a doable thing to do for the Torpgun…...may not work for every other gun without further modifications.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

My TorpGun (which fires a Torpedo) could be different for several reasons than the "Deck_Gun_GE20mm" you're referring to. Ammunition could be a factor; needing to change the ships .dat file? I don't know?? I'm not familiar with all possible gun parameters. I know what the Torpgun gun does because I worked with it for a solid 6 months to get it to do what it does. Changing the Obj_Turret "Type" seems a doable thing to do for the Torpgun…...may not work for every other gun without further modifications.

ok. thanks for explaining that. i did not realize that the TorpGun was a very specific weapon.
so, let me re-phrase my quest: if i wanted to use my turrets for antiship cleanup and i wanted the CrewAI to be effective, how would i modify the turret gun file (s)?
the guns would have to have their range extended a bit and the ammo would have to be beefed up a bit but the challenge is getting the CrewAI to control the weapon and actually fire on a ship vs a plane.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by mark bonamer

ok. thanks for explaining that. i did not realize that the TorpGun was a very specific weapon.
so, let me re-phrase my quest: if i wanted to use my turrets for antiship cleanup and i wanted the CrewAI to be effective, how would i modify the turret gun file (s)?
the guns would have to have their range extended a bit and the ammo would have to be beefed up a bit but the challenge is getting the CrewAI to control the weapon and actually fire on a ship vs a plane.

So, you've got a gun that won't fire in a certain direction (in this case, down to the water level). You want it to fire at objects lower than the higher plane targets? I'm assuming you would like it to fire at both.

I'm going to use a Stock game unit as an example:

First off, find the particular AA gun you're wanting to modify. I chose the A04 from the Kongo and use the .dat files ID: of the A04 gun to locate it in the Kongo's .sim file (happens to be at Node-14 in the .sim file):



You're interested in having the gun aim down to the waterline. So the "Elevation" parameter reads Min=0.0; Max=90.0. The Minimum value is how far "Down" the gun turret on the Kongo will go; the Maximum value is how far "up" it will elevate. At these values, the Kongo's turret for this particular A04 will go down to the water line and up directly overhead.....we're good here!

But, now you want to find the gun the Kongo uses in this particular A04 slot, so you need to see what gun does it equip for the A04 slot?

Go to the Kongo's "Equipment" file and find the "NodeName=A04" equipment section:



The "LinkName=5in_AA_Double_base_JP" gives you the particular gun to look for. You need to find IT in order to make sure the gun will use the "Elevation" the Ship states it want's to use.

With the Stock game it's easy to find the particular gun you're looking for (there mainly found in the "guns_radars.dat" file). With mods, a particular gun may be in any .dat file (usually found in the Library folder)?



Again, follow the guns ID: over to the corresponding .sim file and you'll find the particulars for the gun in question. As this shows, the "Elevation" for the 5in_AA_Double_base_JP is "Min= -7.0"; Max= 90. So, the gun itself will point Down to less than a 90 degree angle.....7 degrees below the perpendicular water line; and will point straight up 90 degrees.

This gun will fire as you wish it to (from straight up, to perpendicular to the water line), within the constraints of the other axis of the gun (the "Traverse" part of things).

My thoughts on what settings to use is to have the particular wpn_Cannon follow a zero to 360 Traverse setting; with the Elevation to be 0.0 to 90.0.

Then, in the ships obj_turret parameters you set the amount of Traverse or Elevation as you want for the ship in-question (you don't want it to shoot through a bulkhead, or down through the deck)!

Gun placement/function 101.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

So, you've got a gun that won't fire in a certain direction (in this case, down to the water level). You want it to fire at objects lower than the higher plane targets? I'm assuming you would like it to fire at both.

great stuff, scurvy. yes, gun-elevation 101. i learned some good stuff.
however, perhaps i did not explain myself properly.
i am trying to get the CrewAI to use an AA_Gun as if it was a Deck_Gun and fire and have the crew fire at ships.
it wont do that at present.
my thought, based on conversations you have had with others in the forum, was that Crew_AI should do what i want if only i changed the AA_gun to a Cannon. for example:

this is Deck_Gun_GE20mm_Turret.sim. BTW, all of the German guns, both AA and deck guns, are labeled as cannons in the game files. and this is a one of two identical weapons on board.

so, when i tried this change i got a CTD. now, realistically, the CTD could be from anything but because this was the only change, i associated the two.
what do you think about my idea? am i missing a file that i need to change?

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by mark bonamer

great stuff, scurvy. yes, gun-elevation 101. i learned some good stuff.
however, perhaps i did not explain myself properly.
i am trying to get the CrewAI to use an AA_Gun as if it was a Deck_Gun and fire and have the crew fire at ships.
it wont do that at present.
my thought, based on conversations you have had with others in the forum, was that Crew_AI should do what i want if only i changed the AA_gun to a Cannon. for example:

this is Deck_Gun_GE20mm_Turret.sim. BTW, all of the German guns, both AA and deck guns, are labeled as cannons in the game files. and this is a one of two identical weapons on board.

so, when i tried this change i got a CTD. now, realistically, the CTD could be from anything but because this was the only change, i associated the two.
what do you think about my idea? am i missing a file that i need to change?

You do what I've described...... the Crew WILL fire an AA gun at a ship unit.....no problem! They do it all the time if set properly. An AA gun will fire anything you want to fire with it (even a torpedo as I have it!), and, at anything..... ship/plane whatever.

The above picture of the German gun in question looks like it has the parameters for the "Elevation" set OK. That's half the struggle......Now what ship unit is the gun on, and what's the parameters for the obj_Turret for that AA gun?? You have to make sure the "Turret" is going to allow the "Gun" to fire down to the angle you want.

As I said, it appears the "Gun" is set to have FREE RANGE in its Elevation. That's what it looks like with an Elevation: Min= -2.0; Max= 75.0 (I can't say what the Traverse has in it....it's not open). You next want to make sure the "obj_Turret" for the "Gun" (found on the ship units .sim file) can fire at the angles you want.

Getting back to the above image, do you see that "Fire" parameter that has a "+" plus in front of it? What's that parameter have in it? The "Fire" segment usually limits the amount of either Traverse or Elevation....depending on what the thing reads. In my other opinion, THAT parameters should not have anything in it when it comes from the "Gun" .sim file!

You may want to have something there in the ship units obj_Turret of its .sim file, but not in the "Gun" .sim file. The "Fire" segment defines where you can limit certain bearing degrees from firing, no matter what the Traverse and Elevation parameters state. Let's say you set the gun to travel 360 degrees around in it's Traverse axis. But you want to have a certain area where the gun won't fire in its rotation around the circle (you don't want the crew to get peppered with bullets). You define where that area is with the "Fire" section.

Again it's my opinion to not have this "Fire" limitation on the "Gun".....put it into the obj_Turret, NOT the Wpn_Cannon.

And another thing, I told you about the Ammunition?!? Does this German AA gun have more than just AA shells to fire? Put some "Heat" or "AP" into the gun to use.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Getting back to the above image, do you see that "Fire" parameter that has a "+" plus in front of it? What's that parameter have in it? The "Fire" segment usually limits the amount of either Traverse or Elevation....depending on what the thing reads. In my other opinion, THAT parameters should not have anything in it when it comes from the "Gun" .sim file!

not sure what the Fire parm does.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by mark bonamer

not sure what the Fire parm does.

Under this "Fire" segment of the file, the "Effect" is linked to the particles.dat file that produces the guns muzzle flame. The "trav_tolerance" has to do with how close to 100% accuracy the gun comes to aiming. The "barrel=" must relate directly to whatever the barrel is called in the guns .dat file. The gun won't fire at all if this isn't correct.

The "muzzle" part has to do with where the gun muzzle(s) are positioned on the gun "base", and how they are positioned in relationship to each other. That "X: 0.3" defines the distance apart the muzzel's are.


=========

The "Fire" segment that I referred to earlier (the one where I said it effects specific "bearings" that the gun will refuse to fire when it's in those bearing areas), doesn't have anything in it.....Fire [0] (its above the Type=AAGun). So, even though this is important to check, it appears it's OK too with nothing listed in it.

My only other thought is to look in the "ammo_storage" segment and make sure you have some Heat or AP shells for the gun.

=========


The other part of things is where you use the gun? The ship unit you have the gun used on must allow the gun to fire down to the waterline. AND (I've got to admit, some modders have never gotten this right)……..the Traverse setting allowing the gun to rotate on its left/right axis, must be set correctly to fire when it's on one side of the ship or the other. The port side of the ship unit must have it's traverse setting for its turret different than what's on the starboard. And, they both need to be correctly set to the direction the ship unit is related within its model.

Let me explain. The ship model has a "relative bearing" surrounding the model much like the relative bearing surrounding the sub when you play. The bow of the ship is zero (or 360 degrees); the perpendicular to starboard is 90 degrees; the stern is 180 degrees; perpendicular to port is 270 degrees, and all bearing degrees in-between.

A gun positioned on the starboard side of the ship, that you would want to fire to the starboard side of the ship, should have its "traverse" min=0.0 (starting at zero bearing) and its max=180.0 (goes to the stern of the ship). It fires to the right only. Never to the left. A gun on the port side of the ship that you want to only fire to the left should have the traverse set like this: min=180.0, max=360.0......it will only fire to the left. If the ship .sim file you have your gun on is not set correctly, the gun may never fire in the direction you expect. When it's not set correctly you may think the gun is faulty, but in reality, your test target may be on the port side of the gun that the gun is not set up to fire at.

The point is, think of a 360 degrees circle circling around the ship model. This same relative bearing is what's used for the guns (AA, or Cannon) when using the traverse setting. You start at zero, and in a clockwise fashion, you progressively circle around up to the 360 degree starting point. For guns on the port side, you follow the same clockwise idea, but have the minimum begin towards the rear of the ship model, then progress up to it's maximum ending point.

The elevation part is a bit simpler, min=0.0 means it's going to fire straight overhead; max=90.0 means the gun range will go down to the waterline.

[Immelmann]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

Ran into this bad boy; quietly waited in ambush. Took just one Torpedo. Deserves a sailor's salute:

Nice! Time? Lat/Lon?

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by Immelmann

Nice! Time? Lat/Lon?

Can only report the Date was 8/16/1943, Time 20:29. Did not save location and I suffer from CRS like many of my age. Not much help, I'm afraid.

Best I can recall is that it was about 7Nm SSE of the entrance to Tokyo Bay. They make infrequent passages through that area. I just got lucky.

If you should decide to go looking for one, be sure and stay at least 6Nm off the entrance to the bay (on either side) due to the presence of deadly accurate coastal defense guns.

Cheers!