Video emerges of Minneapolis police killing a citizen - - Riots

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by El Whacko

To be perfectly honest it wouldn't surprise me if he went to prison and somebody killed him in there. Considering what he did, it wouldn't be crazy to wonder if someone would kill him when he got to prison since:

1. He is a former cop, he probably put some in prison, and by astronomical unluckiness he went to the same prison as a person he put away and was killed
2. He killed a person in a racially motivated crime and so someone who would take offense to his crime would probably try to kill him.

Number 1 is possible.

Your conjecture, however, in number 2, is patently false. Officer Chauvin committed no crime of racial bias. He was enforcing Minnesota law as it exists using compliance holds taught by the Minneapolis police department. The man who he was arresting for passing counterfeit bills recently had covid, had enough fentanyl in him to be fatal for most people, had a pre-existing heart condition, and was noncompliant in the arrest. He was also predisposed to violent criminal behavior given his multiple past run-ins with law enforcement.

A person who was trying to put a criminal past behind themselves wouldn't be using illegal drugs or passing counterfeit money. Unfortunate as it may be, George Floyd killed George Floyd.

[Texas Red]

Makes sense.

[Buddahaid]

If I remember right Floyd and Chauvin also had past history outside the police force. He was accused of passing one $20.00 bill and it never should have escalated to that point over $20.00. There is enough there to show the police had a hand in it instead of cooling down and letting him go. It's not as if they didn't know who it was and could issue a warrant, and them again, it's not my town and I wasn't there.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

If I remember right Floyd and Chauvin also had past history outside the police force. He was accused of passing one $20.00 bill and it never should have escalated to that point over $20.00. There is enough there to show the police had a hand in it instead of cooling down and letting him go. It's not as if they didn't know who it was and could issue a warrant, and them again, it's not my town and I wasn't there.

There is a difference between someone who goes to the ATM to extract cash that later turns out to be counterfeit vs. someone who knew they were paying counterfeit money. Could they have written him a ticket? Sure, but that outcome is predicated on not being a complete jerk and not being cooperative. Had Floyd said, "Hey, I don't know it was counterfeit - I got it as change when I was at the store," he'd have been out a fake $20. Had he said, "yeah I knew it was fake," but otherwise been cooperative, he'd have gotten a ticket. Instead, he was uncooperative (exacerbated by being high) to the point of needing to be restrained. The Wash Times article below is quite enlightening for those who've only seen the story as reported by CNN or Yahoo News...

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...d-police-body/

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

You would have to tell me what point you are trying to make, I have not been able to figure it out.

re the fentanyl that had been found in Mr. Floyd's blood, seems to be an often used medicine if you have sickle cell anemy (common among black people), which he had.
No idea whether this lead to his death, but first stories tried to state that Mr Floyd was "high on drugs" or something like that.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

...it never should have escalated to that point over $20.00.

Oh, I don't think the $20 was anything other than the initial cause for the police to be called. What clearly escalated the situation, as in so many of these encounters, was Mr. Floyd's repeated and aggressive refusal to comply with the police when he was arrested.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Oh, I don't think the $20 was anything other than the initial cause for the police to be called. What clearly escalated the situation, as in so many of these encounters, was Mr. Floyd's repeated and aggressive refusal to comply with the police when he was arrested.

And this seems to be a standard reaction now. Is it based on the belief that if I resist they will let me go? A bystander can be heard saying to Floyd "you can't win". Once the police decide to arrest or detain they are not going to change their minds.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Catfish

re the fentanyl that had been found in Mr. Floyd's blood, seems to be an often used medicine if you have sickle cell anemy (common among black people), which he had.
No idea whether this lead to his death, but first stories tried to state that Mr Floyd was "high on drugs" or something like that.

He *absolutely* was high at the time of arrest. The bodycams of the arresting officers shows him incoherent, slurring his words, and being combatively uncooperative.

The coroner's report showed fentanyl, cannabinoid metabolites, and crystal meth at concentrations consistent with being a chronic drug abuser.

The fentanyl levels were well outside the normal range associated with therapeutic use. They were, in fact, so high, that they indicated significant fentanyl tolerance associated with drug abuse. Additionally, he had sickle cell *trait* which is an asymptomatic condition that does not normally require any type of pain control medication.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by u crank

And this seems to be a standard reaction now. Is it based on the belief that if I resist they will let me go? A bystander can be heard saying to Floyd "you can't win". Once the police decide to arrest or detain they are not going to change their minds.

As I keep saying... The police are a *consequence* of the law. Their decision to arrest someone is based on a significant level of professional discretion. That discretion usually dependss upon how hard you have to make them work when dealing with you, with some situations requiring them to arrest you regardless.

An encounter over a counterfeit $20 bill and a cooperative suspect = a ticket and a direction to leave the premises.

Be difficult and you'll likely get a response of something like "you made me chase you?!?! Here's a good dose of wooden shampoo for making me have to run!!!"

At the far end are the fools who decide to fight an arrest or pull a weapon. *All* of the current law enforcement training pounds home the message that an initially friendly and cooperative domestic or traffic stop can end with the death of the officer because they let down their guard when the person they interacted with decided to pull a weapon and attack.

The message is simple: if you are a member of the public interacting with the police, just behave. You're chances of going to jail for minor offenses is essentially zero. Your treatment if that are arresting you for warrants or serious crimes will be civil. If you are being improperly arrested, court is the place to challenge it, not on the side of the road.

If you are engaged in civil disobedience, you are going in expecting to be arrested and have plans in place for your lawyer to be standing by and ready to bail you... The whole purpose is publicizing the situation with an intent to challenge the law in court

If you are an antifa rioter/looter, that isn't civil disobedience. Not is rioting that results from the verdict of a case like this.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

He *absolutely* was high at the time of arrest. [...].

Sources?

"Blackwell also pointed out that Floyd had a low level of methamphetamine in his system. Fowler agreed the pills found in the squad car were obviously not in Floyd's body, and no pills were found in his stomach during autopsy."

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates...13-2021-04-14/

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Sources?

"Blackwell also pointed out that Floyd had a low level of methamphetamine in his system. Fowler agreed the pills found in the squad car were obviously not in Floyd's body, and no pills were found in his stomach during autopsy."

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates...13-2021-04-14/

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...psy-6-3-20.pdf

The coroner's report (link above) shows someone with fentanyl levels consistent with non-therapeutic use. It shows cannabis, meth, and morphine levels consistent with recent use (including cannabis metabolite levels consistent with being high at the time of arrest). The blood screening shows no antemortem sickling - i.e. - no sickle cell anemia that would warrant prescription use of fentanyl. The report also shows no indication of damage to the lungs or trachea as a result of his being held down. Lastly, it shows an enlarged heart consistent with cardiovascular disease and hypertension.

Fact of the matter is that a person with a criminal record for violent behavior chose to get high, pass counterfeit money, and then violently resist arrest. The bodycams produced as evidence during the trial refute the claim that he was being suffocated because the officer's knee was on his back/shoulder and not compressing his trachea nor his carotid arteries.

George Floyd killed George Floyd.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by El Whacko

To be perfectly honest it wouldn't surprise me if he went to prison and somebody killed him in there. Considering what he did, it wouldn't be crazy to wonder if someone would kill him when he got to prison since:

1. He is a former cop, he probably put some in prison, and by astronomical unluckiness he went to the same prison as a person he put away and was killed
2. He killed a person in a racially motivated crime and so someone who would take offense to his crime would probably try to kill him.

The court proceedings were televised. At what point did you hear the prosecution say race was a motivating factor? I must have missed that part.

[Catfish]

I am not schooled enough in medicine to judge the quantities found in this report, and i do not know what this * exactly means ?

*In this case, the level of methamphetamine determined has not been differentiated according to its isomeric forms. Differentiation of the isomers of methamphetamine is available upon request.

Again: " [...] Fowler agreed that Floyd had a normal respiratory rate before he died, and someone suffering from a fentanyl overdose would have a lowered respiratory rate. But he qualified his answer by saying it's possible Floyd would have otherwise had a higher respiratory rate because of the stress of the police restraint.

Blackwell also pointed out that Floyd had a low level of methamphetamine in his system. Fowler agreed the pills found in the squad car were obviously not in Floyd's body, and no pills were found in his stomach during autopsy.

"Correct -- whatever the residual amount in those tablets was, was not in his body," Fowler said."

Be it as it may, if you kneel on someone and he is obviously not in the condition to fight anyone, and he tells you that he cannot breathe, and you continue to kneel on his chest for nine minutes, is that the correct action to be taken?

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I am not schooled enough in medicine to judge the quantities found in this report, and i do not know what this * exactly means ?

*In this case, the level of methamphetamine determined has not been differentiated according to its isomeric forms. Differentiation of the isomers of methamphetamine is available upon request.

Again: " [...] Fowler agreed that Floyd had a normal respiratory rate before he died, and someone suffering from a fentanyl overdose would have a lowered respiratory rate. But he qualified his answer by saying it's possible Floyd would have otherwise had a higher respiratory rate because of the stress of the police restraint.

Blackwell also pointed out that Floyd had a low level of methamphetamine in his system. Fowler agreed the pills found in the squad car were obviously not in Floyd's body, and no pills were found in his stomach during autopsy.

"Correct -- whatever the residual amount in those tablets was, was not in his body," Fowler said."

Be it as it may, if you kneel on someone and he is obviously not in the condition to fight anyone, and he tells you that he cannot breathe, and you continue to kneel on his chest for nine minutes, is that the correct action to be taken?

The level of methamphetamine is irrelevant - it's a red herring. The levels of cannabinoids, fentanyl, and free morphine are what is important because all the of them are a cardiovascular depressant. Combine all of them in someone with an already compromised cardiovascular system, and you risk coma or death *regardless* of being proned out, sleeping, or whatever. Additionally, Floyd made *multiple* false claims of distress before being taken out of the vehicle that likely led the officers to treat any true claims of distress the same.

Could/should the police have administered NARCAN? Sure, but that's predicated on administering it to a no combative person.

Go look at the additional bodycam footage. You'll see the truth is significantly different than the media is portraying.

[MaDef]

As I keep saying... The police are a *consequence* of the law. Their decision to arrest someone is based on a significant level of professional discretion.

An encounter over a counterfeit $20 bill and a cooperative suspect = a ticket and a direction to leave the premises.

That's a bit of an oversimplification isn't it? There are Federal, State, County, and city/town laws, rules and regulations, and those are further split into infractions, misdemeanors, or felonies. Those are further split into classes such as A,B,C, or I,II,III, etc.

In the case of possessing/passing counterfeit money, that is a Federal Felony and in this case police were required by statute to arrest Floyd and charge him with forgery.

To illustrate my point:

According to federal law, crimes involving counterfeit currency are felonies; they carry a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison, as well as a fine. The maximum punishment is the same, regardless of the defendant’s relationship to the counterfeit money. In other words, the court could sentence you to 20 years in prison, whether you produced the counterfeit money, attempted to spend it, or simply were caught with the fake money in your possession.

What happens if you did not know that the money was fake? Is it not a gross injustice to send someone to prison for 20 years simply for buying something with cash that they thought was legitimate? It is unfair, but it sometimes happens. In 2017, Syed Ali of Houston faced criminal charges after he bought food at a Taco Bell with a fake $10 bill. Ali had gotten the bill from his father, who had received it as change after making a purchase at Home Depot. He was charged with forgery, which carries a sentence of two to 10 years.

While police have discretionary powers (taking into custody vs. a ticket or citation) while enforcing laws, there are some laws that by statute require arrest.