Over Flanders Fields - Page 12

XabbaRus · 01-16-09, 05:42 AM

Just read the interview and have never read so much chest thumping and self congratulation in my life.

The "we have families" blah blah sacrifice blah blah.

They must have hacked the source code, kind of like what has happened with DW for the multi-playable mods.

My issue is how they are getting away with charging for it. Before they said it was to just cover the cost of producing the dvds etc,. Now it seems like a money maker....

NeonSamurai · 01-16-09, 06:42 AM

No kidding, at 50$ a pop, that certainly does more then cover the costs of making the disks. I see no point in paying that kind of money for what is a glorified mod, and imho not a very good one (its decent but wouldn't stand up to a real modern production ww1 sim).

JG52Uther · 01-16-09, 01:35 PM

I cant see the problem myself.If you don't want it,you won't buy it.If you do want it,you will buy it.Its a niche product for a niche market.
The new Rise of Flight is allegedly going to cost around $30 or so.Thats for 2 flyables.Each extra plane after that is going to be around $5-$7.At least people will have a choice,depending on their computer specs,their spending ability ($50 for OFF,or $200-$300 for the same amount of flyables in RoF) if they want to fly from 1914 thru to 1918 with OFF,or 1917-1918 with RoF.
Choice is a good thing.I will buy both.

XabbaRus · 01-16-09, 03:57 PM

I think it is more the hype surrounding it and they way OFF2 was pulled.

Catfish · 01-16-09, 04:31 PM

Hello,
since i have been a subsim member, for some 10+ years i would like to throw my 2 cents in. Maybe i will ask Neal whether it would be possible to write (he, someone else, or even me) some kind of review about Over Flanders Fields (called OFF) phase 3 "Between Heaven and Hell". Subsim sure has a good reputation about its reviews and critics

.

I have played almost every WWI flight sim that ever was, missing only FS WWI sim as a mod for the "Screamin' demons" sim, so i know what i speak about. I will also try this sim when i get a copy of the Screamin' demons.
I do not have OFF phase III yet, but having played phase I and II for years i will sure pay the 50 bucks.

I was initially looking for a successor for my RedBaron3d, but the RedBaron i had was finally patched beyond recognition, there were 100+ patches and mods, SWWISA made all kinds of historical adjusting, and finally there were two main mods being "Full canvas jacket" (payware) and the "Hell's Angels" mod (which ist still free, and b.t.w. the creator of this mod is one of the makers of OFF) along with flight model changes, visual effects and what not that turned RB almost into a sim, if you were not used to something like IL2 - but who was, at that time?

Did i say i really had to PAY for the original RedBaron3d? The Sierra company sure had a nerve demanding 50 bucks 10 years ago. Oh, and i bought a new PC with a voodoo card back then, only to fly RB in its original version. The Halberstadt D.II was impossible to fly, and all wingmen would instantly crash into trees or hills after take-off. And it was stuttering badly, just like OFF will on any older machine. And RoF?

What do you think you guys will have pay for "Rise of Flight, or RoF ? Be sure it will stutter on Dual cores with 3GHz and only 4 Gigs of Ram.
I will still buy it for sure, those graphics are breathtaking - but, and it is a big BUT: the rest of RoF's features seem a bit sparse:
- 3 planes included (every next one has to be bought separately for 5-7 $)
- No dynamic frontlines that move with the war
- Intended for online play
- no single play career, so no dynamic campaign, only some training missions.

Not necessary to say that OFF does have those features, along with online play - if only for up to now 12 players, in Phase II.
B.t.w. everyone can host an OFF online game, no need for the MS CFS3 server anymore.

Over Flanders Fields Phase 1 was free and i downloaded it from the OFF website, it took years. Next i bought a pretty cheap CFS3 copy, which i even played for one or two times. Gawd. Having IL2 with its successors i was not at all impressed. Then i installed OFF phase 1.

Since this was an alpha version there were bugs, but from the graphics alone it was already years ahead of RB3d. I enjoyed it, and had a lot of discussions and (i must admit) rants with the developers like "why the hell does this and that not work", can you include sooting spark plugs when letting the engine idle too long, will it overheat, how is this and that, and what about this crappy AI ?
And they were constantly answering it was still in development, they improved things, they needed time, it was not a commercial product and so on. Some things would never change because it was a "CFS3 thing", hard-coded.
I can somehow imagine they did not want to get Microsoft lawyers involved for changing the source code. At the same time the dev team kept pumping out patches that removed one problem after the other, all free for download.

I was still playing RedBaron now and then, but its damage modeling and the flight characteristics were rather foreseeable, and with those crappy ground textures and trees i began to miss the graphics from OFF. As well landing in RedBaron is not quite the same to say at least. Starting and landing is arcadish, and even if flying is still ok in RB, it is better in OFF. This is a Flight SIMULATOR. Get the idea?

Then there was phase 2, free for download and ready at Christmas.
This was already something else. Still some bugs, and the AI was still laughable, well mostly. Sometimes, when you encountered a real ace, you were dead before you realized it. But especially Nieuports were often playing ring-around-a-rosie without even being aware of me or my wingmen.
But the flying ... i was so i just stared at the scenery when the first bullets hit, below me there were explosions of artillery, ammunition camps, aerodromes, tanks ... i found myself nursing home a bady shot-up RE.8 and almost kissed the ground when i managed to land that thing.

The reason phase 2 is not longer downloadable at the OFF homepage is that this money-making "company" you all talk about is virtually inexistant, at least up to now. They have a website, with not much bandwidth - now the last Phase 2 version with all the mods and patches was appx. 2.5 GB at last, and they just did not want to pay any more. There were thousands downloading and server costs rose.

With this third phase the OFF dev team made a historically correct simulator, featuring 39 different planes as they appeared at the front, each with its own flight and damage model, colours, aces and locations at the various aerodromes, that certainly also change with the war. Just compare this to anything else.

For anyone who still wants to test OFF Phase II for free: Go to the OFF forum, register and officially ask for a DVD copy at the uppermost sticky thread. Most people in your neighbourhood won't even charge you any p&p or the DVD as long as you promise to send a DVD copy yourself to someone else who wants one. Fair enough ? The OFF team has worked four years for phase 2, and everyone was free to download it - i do not think this is a bad deal.

But do not expect to be awarded every kill. Following reality lots of kills will not be accepted by your superiors, right as it was in WWI, or only days or weeks after the event.
Make a mistake in a turn close to the ground ? Rise that nose too high with you 100hp Oberursel I. engine ? You say your plane does not rise quick enough? Well, all features are from real tables and historical deliverance.
As well you will have to adjust your engine so it will not conk-out and stay due to your own crappy mixture-managing or shut-off magnetoes. Give it a try but don't say i did not warn you, this is not for whiners.

Greetings,
Catfish

P.S. how do i post screenshots here ? Only with hotlinking ?

Stealth Hunter · 01-16-09, 08:24 PM

I Google'd "OFF Ready" and this popped up:

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/games-flight-sims/39535-i-heard-rumours-about-off-phase-3-being-ready.html

Listen to this guy towards the end:

Hello "Enthusiast",

i have nothing to do with the selling or programming of "Over Flanders Fields - Between Heaven and Hell" (Phase3), so i may freely speak my mind. I also posted this over at the OFF forum:

The dev team sure did not invent this price out of the blue. After all they have been developing this sim for now 5 (?) years, offering at least 4 year's work even for free download until now. And i firmly believe they will continue to develop it, be it for improvements, added planes and such for Phase3, or for phase 4 - whatever. Only thing that would change their course of going strong would be statements as "50 bucks are a big toad to swallow".

Here in Germany PC games cost about 50 Euros, which is much more that 50 $. You might say that you have to get a CFS3 copy, BUT:
The dev team also stated they would probably go for another "engine", so they would not need MS's CFS3 any more. However not yet - this is a private thing, no company.

But apart from buying an engine for further developing somewhere in the future of this sim, they have to pay their distributor - it is not at all sure whether the money asked for does indeed come up for their costs.

You may not realize it, but the flight sim community is not as big as you seem to think, let alone a niche product like a WWI simulator, even if it's the best currently existing. Ther are no masses to gain as with Doom, or Half Life and such.

Only my opinion, you can still get phase2 for free, just ask in the sticky over at the OFF forum.

Greetings,
Catfish

The kid (Enthusiast) who asked the question is 15, and I for one don't trust this Catfish fellow's post at all... indeed, the same goes for him himself.

Subtype Zero · 01-17-09, 12:55 AM

Quote:

The kid (Enthusiast) who asked the question is 15, and I for one don't trust this Catfish fellow's post at all... indeed, the same goes for him himself.

???? What is that supposed to mean? What don't you trust about his post, or him, for that matter? Be specific, and don't just make vague insinuations. Otherwise, you are just a troll trying to stir up trouble about something you know nothing about.

Feel free to attack OFF3 for valid reasons, but next time try to stick to the facts instead of paranoid rantings and conspiracy theories.

For those who are interested in OFF3, go check out their website and decide for yourselves if it is worth the money.

Stealth Hunter · 01-17-09, 01:12 AM

What the hell are you talking about? I posted what Catfish said, and I pointed out that it was in response to another user's post on The Aerodrome's game forum. I gave you a link, and I also said I didn't trust Catfish's post. The wording on its own sounded odd and negative towards criticism towards the mod. How much more specific can I get?

BadKarma1001 · 01-17-09, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

I cant see the problem myself.If you don't want it,you won't buy it.If you do want it,you will buy it.Its a niche product for a niche market.
The new Rise of Flight is allegedly going to cost around $30 or so.Thats for 2 flyables.Each extra plane after that is going to be around $5-$7.At least people will have a choice,depending on their computer specs,their spending ability ($50 for OFF,or $200-$300 for the same amount of flyables in RoF) if they want to fly from 1914 thru to 1918 with OFF,or 1917-1918 with RoF.
Choice is a good thing.I will buy both.

Finally someone with common sense!
Would i spend 50 Bucks if someone would total convert SH3 or SH4 to a WWI, or better an early Cold War (mid 1950 to early 1970) scenario you bet i would, without a blink.
So, its really a matter of choice. I for myself choose to buy it, even when these 50 (with vat and shipping 70) bucks where hard to swallow.

...and Stealth Hunter i don´t trust your posts they are hostile and trollish!

TarJak · 01-17-09, 06:41 AM

I didn't see anything hostile in SH's posts. Just an expression of his opinions. Isn't this what these boards are for?:hmm:

XabbaRus · 01-17-09, 09:47 AM

I agree people are just stating their misgivings about the whole thing.

I personally have a problem with mods for sale no matter how good they are.

It is like the Fall Blau and Ostfront stuff for IL-2 which to my mind are just ultra detailed add on campaigns.

Stealth Hunter · 01-17-09, 02:25 PM

Ignore them. They have been registered for quite a while now and rarely ever post, then they just suddenly show up and post away?

Catfish · 01-17-09, 03:33 PM

Hello,
so you "don't trust" me. Well, i am deeply afflicted :hmm:

But let's keep calm, ok ? I have nothing to do with OFF, apart having fun and posting information and details that will hopefully improve this and other sims, just as it was the case with SH3 back then.
I am just having a ball with it - still with phase 2, that is. But as i said before even if i will go for the third phase, no one else is forced to do it.
You can still get phase 2 for free, and then send it down the drain as Stealth Hunter proposed.

What i wrote over at the aerodrome is mostly about other themes, and everyone is free to e.g. read the U-boat thread there (WWI) or any other bullsh*t i may have written now and then

.
What i meant is that the same persons that asked the whole time "when will OFF come out?", "When is it ready", "Will it be out for Christmas?" and so forth were the first to complain about the price as soon as it was released a week ago. I did not know that the person i answered to was 15 years old. I think that 50 bucks is indeed a lot at that age, but then feel free to propose Microsoft to adjust their prices regarding X-Box or PC games for kids, good luck. The price for P3 is set and known since ... half a year ?

The dev team has ever since said they would at some point charge money for it. You do not seem to realize what level of research it took for getting the information, and packing this into a sim. And they want to get another flight engine sooner or later, to get rid of CFS3 maybe in phase 4, and this will cost money. B.t.w. this is not only a mod, it is a sim of its own, using an engine from another game. Whoever played OFF P2 will have to admit that.

"First Eagles" also is without doubt a good WWI sim, and since WWI flight sims are a rare breed i encourage all to go for it. But you have as well to buy the engine, and then download the planes - almost the same as with OFF. First Eagles is now about 30 $ as i recently saw, and as well everyone is free to get it or not. IMHO it is worth it, but you cannot download a test version or whatever, the sim itself b.t.w. is about appx. 260 Mb. But do you really say it is better than OFF ? I will have to give it a try again...

CFS3 - i would follow Stealth Hunter's proposal when it comes to the original version (throw it away), however only the engine is used for OFF, which has currently 3000 Mb in its recent version (15 Gb expanded and installed on hard disk), but the first patch is already out, and further planes will be added.
I somehow wonder about the tone at this forum, but then i may be biased from earlier years.

All the best,
Catfish

TarJak · 01-17-09, 07:12 PM

Well said Mikhayl

If OFF significantly changed the engine itself then I would consider calling it a game, otherwise it is just a mod. A very good mod, I also have been enjoying with Phase2. However I cannot see why the "costs" for using a different engine would be very different to those for CFS3. Unless the plan is to move to a licensed model in which case we are talking about a different kettle of fish entirely and the OFF team are moving into a more professional arena which as a loose community of modders (I'm sorry I can't call them developers as although they may write some code they are simply doing so off a pre-built engine), would be a unique way of running a business. One wonders how profit would be split in such a situation.

I personally think that paying for a mod goes against the tradition of community development. Most people do it because they love the game or the genre they work with. If these guys want to go pro, then fine, go do it and all the best to 'em and good luck with maintaining control, once the torrents start to show up as they inevitably will.

That's not to say I wouldn't pay for a mod, however I'd prefer to see the proof of the pudding before laying down my hard earned cash. I almost always DL demo's before buying a new release of a game and would definately prefer to do so with a mod no matter how good the vids or screenies look.

JG52Uther · 01-18-09, 03:15 PM

Just out of interest.IF GWX had been a paid add-on for $50,how many of you would still be floating around in standard SH3?

01-16-09, 05:42 AM	#166
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Just read the interview and have never read so much chest thumping and self congratulation in my life. The "we have families" blah blah sacrifice blah blah. They must have hacked the source code, kind of like what has happened with DW for the multi-playable mods. My issue is how they are getting away with charging for it. Before they said it was to just cover the cost of producing the dvds etc,. Now it seems like a money maker.... __________________

01-16-09, 06:42 AM	#167
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	No kidding, at 50$ a pop, that certainly does more then cover the costs of making the disks. I see no point in paying that kind of money for what is a glorified mod, and imho not a very good one (its decent but wouldn't stand up to a real modern production ww1 sim). __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff

01-16-09, 03:57 PM	#169
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I think it is more the hype surrounding it and they way OFF2 was pulled. __________________

01-17-09, 09:47 AM	#176
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I agree people are just stating their misgivings about the whole thing. I personally have a problem with mods for sale no matter how good they are. It is like the Fall Blau and Ostfront stuff for IL-2 which to my mind are just ultra detailed add on campaigns. __________________

01-17-09, 03:33 PM	#178
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, so you "don't trust" me. Well, i am deeply afflicted :hmm: But let's keep calm, ok ? I have nothing to do with OFF, apart having fun and posting information and details that will hopefully improve this and other sims, just as it was the case with SH3 back then. I am just having a ball with it - still with phase 2, that is. But as i said before even if i will go for the third phase, no one else is forced to do it. You can still get phase 2 for free, and then send it down the drain as Stealth Hunter proposed. What i wrote over at the aerodrome is mostly about other themes, and everyone is free to e.g. read the U-boat thread there (WWI) or any other bullsht i may have written now and then . What i meant is that the same persons that asked the whole time "when will OFF come out?", "When is it ready", "Will it be out for Christmas?" and so forth were the first to complain about the price as soon as it was released a week ago. I did not know that the person i answered to was 15 years old. I think that 50 bucks is indeed a lot at that age, but then feel free to propose Microsoft to adjust their prices regarding X-Box or PC games for kids, good luck. The price for P3 is set and known since ... half a year ? The dev team has ever since said they would at some point charge money for it. You do not seem to realize what level of research it took for getting the information, and packing this into a sim. And they want to get another flight engine sooner or later, to get rid of CFS3 maybe in phase 4, and this will cost money. B.t.w. this is not only a mod, it is a sim of its own, using an engine from another game. Whoever played OFF P2 will have to admit that. "First Eagles" also is without doubt a good WWI sim, and since WWI flight sims are a rare breed i encourage all to go for it. But you have as well to buy the engine, and then download the planes - almost the same as with OFF. First Eagles is now about 30 $ as i recently saw, and as well everyone is free to get it or not. IMHO it is worth it, but you cannot download a test version or whatever, the sim itself b.t.w. is about appx. 260 Mb. But do you really say it is better than OFF ? I will have to give it a try again... CFS3 - i would follow Stealth Hunter's proposal when it comes to the original version (throw it away), however only the engine is used for OFF, which has currently 3000 Mb in its recent version (15 Gb expanded and installed on hard disk), but the first patch is already out, and further planes will be added. I somehow wonder about the tone at this forum, but then i may be biased from earlier years. All the best, Catfish Last edited by Catfish; 01-18-09 at 04:21 PM.*

01-16-09, 01:35 PM	#168
JG52Uther Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I cant see the problem myself.If you don't want it,you won't buy it.If you do want it,you will buy it.Its a niche product for a niche market. The new Rise of Flight is allegedly going to cost around $30 or so.Thats for 2 flyables.Each extra plane after that is going to be around $5-$7.At least people will have a choice,depending on their computer specs,their spending ability ($50 for OFF,or $200-$300 for the same amount of flyables in RoF) if they want to fly from 1914 thru to 1918 with OFF,or 1917-1918 with RoF. Choice is a good thing.I will buy both.

01-16-09, 04:31 PM	#170
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, since i have been a subsim member, for some 10+ years i would like to throw my 2 cents in. Maybe i will ask Neal whether it would be possible to write (he, someone else, or even me) some kind of review about Over Flanders Fields (called OFF) phase 3 "Between Heaven and Hell". Subsim sure has a good reputation about its reviews and critics . I have played almost every WWI flight sim that ever was, missing only FS WWI sim as a mod for the "Screamin' demons" sim, so i know what i speak about. I will also try this sim when i get a copy of the Screamin' demons. I do not have OFF phase III yet, but having played phase I and II for years i will sure pay the 50 bucks. I was initially looking for a successor for my RedBaron3d, but the RedBaron i had was finally patched beyond recognition, there were 100+ patches and mods, SWWISA made all kinds of historical adjusting, and finally there were two main mods being "Full canvas jacket" (payware) and the "Hell's Angels" mod (which ist still free, and b.t.w. the creator of this mod is one of the makers of OFF) along with flight model changes, visual effects and what not that turned RB almost into a sim, if you were not used to something like IL2 - but who was, at that time? Did i say i really had to PAY for the original RedBaron3d? The Sierra company sure had a nerve demanding 50 bucks 10 years ago. Oh, and i bought a new PC with a voodoo card back then, only to fly RB in its original version. The Halberstadt D.II was impossible to fly, and all wingmen would instantly crash into trees or hills after take-off. And it was stuttering badly, just like OFF will on any older machine. And RoF? What do you think you guys will have pay for "Rise of Flight, or RoF ? Be sure it will stutter on Dual cores with 3GHz and only 4 Gigs of Ram. I will still buy it for sure, those graphics are breathtaking - but, and it is a big BUT: the rest of RoF's features seem a bit sparse: - 3 planes included (every next one has to be bought separately for 5-7 $) - No dynamic frontlines that move with the war - Intended for online play - no single play career, so no dynamic campaign, only some training missions. Not necessary to say that OFF does have those features, along with online play - if only for up to now 12 players, in Phase II. B.t.w. everyone can host an OFF online game, no need for the MS CFS3 server anymore. Over Flanders Fields Phase 1 was free and i downloaded it from the OFF website, it took years. Next i bought a pretty cheap CFS3 copy, which i even played for one or two times. Gawd. Having IL2 with its successors i was not at all impressed. Then i installed OFF phase 1. Since this was an alpha version there were bugs, but from the graphics alone it was already years ahead of RB3d. I enjoyed it, and had a lot of discussions and (i must admit) rants with the developers like "why the hell does this and that not work", can you include sooting spark plugs when letting the engine idle too long, will it overheat, how is this and that, and what about this crappy AI ? And they were constantly answering it was still in development, they improved things, they needed time, it was not a commercial product and so on. Some things would never change because it was a "CFS3 thing", hard-coded. I can somehow imagine they did not want to get Microsoft lawyers involved for changing the source code. At the same time the dev team kept pumping out patches that removed one problem after the other, all free for download. I was still playing RedBaron now and then, but its damage modeling and the flight characteristics were rather foreseeable, and with those crappy ground textures and trees i began to miss the graphics from OFF. As well landing in RedBaron is not quite the same to say at least. Starting and landing is arcadish, and even if flying is still ok in RB, it is better in OFF. This is a Flight SIMULATOR. Get the idea? Then there was phase 2, free for download and ready at Christmas. This was already something else. Still some bugs, and the AI was still laughable, well mostly. Sometimes, when you encountered a real ace, you were dead before you realized it. But especially Nieuports were often playing ring-around-a-rosie without even being aware of me or my wingmen. But the flying ... i was so i just stared at the scenery when the first bullets hit, below me there were explosions of artillery, ammunition camps, aerodromes, tanks ... i found myself nursing home a bady shot-up RE.8 and almost kissed the ground when i managed to land that thing. The reason phase 2 is not longer downloadable at the OFF homepage is that this money-making "company" you all talk about is virtually inexistant, at least up to now. They have a website, with not much bandwidth - now the last Phase 2 version with all the mods and patches was appx. 2.5 GB at last, and they just did not want to pay any more. There were thousands downloading and server costs rose. With this third phase the OFF dev team made a historically correct simulator, featuring 39 different planes as they appeared at the front, each with its own flight and damage model, colours, aces and locations at the various aerodromes, that certainly also change with the war. Just compare this to anything else. For anyone who still wants to test OFF Phase II for free: Go to the OFF forum, register and officially ask for a DVD copy at the uppermost sticky thread. Most people in your neighbourhood won't even charge you any p&p or the DVD as long as you promise to send a DVD copy yourself to someone else who wants one. Fair enough ? The OFF team has worked four years for phase 2, and everyone was free to download it - i do not think this is a bad deal. But do not expect to be awarded every kill. Following reality lots of kills will not be accepted by your superiors, right as it was in WWI, or only days or weeks after the event. Make a mistake in a turn close to the ground ? Rise that nose too high with you 100hp Oberursel I. engine ? You say your plane does not rise quick enough? Well, all features are from real tables and historical deliverance. As well you will have to adjust your engine so it will not conk-out and stay due to your own crappy mixture-managing or shut-off magnetoes. Give it a try but don't say i did not warn you, this is not for whiners. Greetings, Catfish P.S. how do i post screenshots here ? Only with hotlinking ?

01-16-09, 08:24 PM	#171
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I Google'd "OFF Ready" and this popped up: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/games-flight-sims/39535-i-heard-rumours-about-off-phase-3-being-ready.html Listen to this guy towards the end: Hello "Enthusiast", i have nothing to do with the selling or programming of "Over Flanders Fields - Between Heaven and Hell" (Phase3), so i may freely speak my mind. I also posted this over at the OFF forum: The dev team sure did not invent this price out of the blue. After all they have been developing this sim for now 5 (?) years, offering at least 4 year's work even for free download until now. And i firmly believe they will continue to develop it, be it for improvements, added planes and such for Phase3, or for phase 4 - whatever. Only thing that would change their course of going strong would be statements as "50 bucks are a big toad to swallow". Here in Germany PC games cost about 50 Euros, which is much more that 50 $. You might say that you have to get a CFS3 copy, BUT: The dev team also stated they would probably go for another "engine", so they would not need MS's CFS3 any more. However not yet - this is a private thing, no company. But apart from buying an engine for further developing somewhere in the future of this sim, they have to pay their distributor - it is not at all sure whether the money asked for does indeed come up for their costs. You may not realize it, but the flight sim community is not as big as you seem to think, let alone a niche product like a WWI simulator, even if it's the best currently existing. Ther are no masses to gain as with Doom, or Half Life and such. Only my opinion, you can still get phase2 for free, just ask in the sticky over at the OFF forum. Greetings, Catfish The kid (Enthusiast) who asked the question is 15, and I for one don't trust this Catfish fellow's post at all... indeed, the same goes for him himself.

01-17-09, 01:12 AM	#173
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	What the hell are you talking about? I posted what Catfish said, and I pointed out that it was in response to another user's post on The Aerodrome's game forum. I gave you a link, and I also said I didn't trust Catfish's post. The wording on its own sounded odd and negative towards criticism towards the mod. How much more specific can I get?

01-17-09, 06:41 AM	#175
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	I didn't see anything hostile in SH's posts. Just an expression of his opinions. Isn't this what these boards are for?:hmm:

01-17-09, 02:25 PM	#177
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Ignore them. They have been registered for quite a while now and rarely ever post, then they just suddenly show up and post away?

01-17-09, 07:12 PM	#179
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Well said Mikhayl If OFF significantly changed the engine itself then I would consider calling it a game, otherwise it is just a mod. A very good mod, I also have been enjoying with Phase2. However I cannot see why the "costs" for using a different engine would be very different to those for CFS3. Unless the plan is to move to a licensed model in which case we are talking about a different kettle of fish entirely and the OFF team are moving into a more professional arena which as a loose community of modders (I'm sorry I can't call them developers as although they may write some code they are simply doing so off a pre-built engine), would be a unique way of running a business. One wonders how profit would be split in such a situation. I personally think that paying for a mod goes against the tradition of community development. Most people do it because they love the game or the genre they work with. If these guys want to go pro, then fine, go do it and all the best to 'em and good luck with maintaining control, once the torrents start to show up as they inevitably will. That's not to say I wouldn't pay for a mod, however I'd prefer to see the proof of the pudding before laying down my hard earned cash. I almost always DL demo's before buying a new release of a game and would definately prefer to do so with a mod no matter how good the vids or screenies look.

01-18-09, 03:15 PM	#180
JG52Uther Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Just out of interest.IF GWX had been a paid add-on for $50,how many of you would still be floating around in standard SH3?