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Old 09-21-2005, 06:08 AM   #1
Bellman
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Default LuftWolf 'n Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod v2.01

Available now at Bill's SubGuru. Great Readme and much is reworked. Thanks guys including
finiteless, Ludger and jsteed and not forgetting Molon Labe for extensive testing. :|\
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:11 AM   #2
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And, of course, thanks to Bellman for his fearless disregard of the moderators!
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:28 AM   #3
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You just stopped me in time .....................I was heading for ''Multiplayer'' and '' Mission Design''

I do so get carried away with enthusiasm.......................lets hope the Mods will be understanding .....and not carry me away.

I just feel the spotlight must be maintained on your excellent work.
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:29 AM   #4
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Don't let me stop you!

In all seriousness, thank you.
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:06 PM   #5
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thanks very much for your MOD.
This MOD is now used in all our MP games at Mille-Sabords (we play each day online).

I really regret you removed the torpedo feedback.
This was a great feature, and as we never use AC TMA on our match, we didn't had any problem with this.


I have a question :
You set the passive seeker to 1000m on ADCAP, that is 1/3 of the active seeker capabilities.
I agree to this for a torp at 55knts, but for a torp at 30 knts, I think this should be changed ... ?
@30 knts, I imagine the passive seeker will have a larger detection range than the active one isn't it ?
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:23 PM   #6
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I am very happy to hear that you are using the mod regularly for MP games! That, in itself, is reward enough for creating the mod.

For the torpedo feedback, if you would like me to give you the instructions on how to restore it for the version you use, I would be happy to do so, or create a database specificially for MS.

In regards to the torpedo passive seeker ranges, due to the specific geometry of torpedo seekers and the overall lack of surface area for a wide sound sensing membrane, the active sonars tend to have longer effective ranges due to the fact that it is amplified sound being returned, and the sensor of the torpedo can be tuned to be sensitive to that ping frequency only, whereas with passive sensors you are stuck with Broadband returns to a realitively limited sensor cone, which tends to create much less focused returns and thus bearing ambiguity at greater ranges.

Amizaur is the one who is most responsible for the torpedo seeker changes, so he knows much more about their RL and in game function than I do. The torpedo passive sensor will completely washout above 40kts, and, under that, be much more sensitive to loud contacts, such as heavy surface vessles, than submarines or even the OHP FFG, making passive torpedos generally a very poor choice against modern subs, both in RL and in the mod.


This information is largely pieced together, but I hope you have found it helpful.

Please let us know if there is anything we can do for you.

Cheers,
David
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuftWolf

For the torpedo feedback, if you would like me to give you the instructions on how to restore it for the version you use, I would be happy to do so, or create a database specificially for MS.
thanks very much, but we will stay with your standard MOD for compatibility with everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LuftWolf
The torpedo passive sensor will completely washout above 40kts, and, under that, be much more sensitive to loud contacts, such as heavy surface vessles, than submarines or even the OHP FFG, making passive torpedos generally a very poor choice against modern subs, both in RL and in the mod.
Yes, I never use passive againts subs from DW.
And that's a good improvment from SC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuftWolf
Please let us know if there is anything we can do for you.
yes : continuing your excellent work !
thanks again
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:32 PM   #8
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The passive sensor in playable torps (ADCAP, UGST) was decreased in 2.0 mod to 1000m just because of the feedback feature - the unwanted passive tracks from torpedo made mess on the screen, shorter range helped in reducing this. Now in 2.01 without feedback the playable torpedos ADCAP and UGST have passive seeker range increased to 2000m, which is reflected in torpedo seekers table included with mod. But I reduced the passive sensor sensivity to a point that it shouldn't work against quiet slow submarines. Of course it works without problems against surface ships and even more noisy subs :-).
The wash-out speed was not changed and remains 60kts (60kts fully blocked, 45kts begin of wash-out) so launch passive torps at 40kts and better yet 39kts (because after enable 40kts torp speeds up to 46kts).

edit: posted so many pictures today that can post one more

Lw & Ami Mod 2.01 table of torpedo seekers



listed is maximum range, though sometimes slightly longer happen vs large targets, also you can expect shorter ranges vs small targets sometimes. But typical would be as listed for active sonar and for passive vs noisy or cavitating targets.
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Old 09-21-2005, 04:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amizaur
The passive sensor in playable torps (ADCAP, UGST) was decreased in 2.-0 mod to 1000m just because of the feedback feature - the unwanted passive tracks from torpedo made mess on the screen, shorter range helped in reducing this. Now in 2.01 without feedback the playable torpedos ADCAP and UGST have passive seeker range increased to 2000m, which is reflected in torpedo seekers table included with mod. But I reduced the passive sensor sensivity to a point that it shouldn't work against quiet slow submarines. Of course it works without problems against surface ships and even more noisy subs :-).
The wash-out speed was not changed and remains 60kts (60kts fully blocked, 45kts begin of wash-out) so launch passive torps at 40kts and better yet 39kts (because after enable 40kts torp speeds up to 46kts).
What aquisition range can we expect if it is fired at a noisy surface ship?
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Old 09-21-2005, 04:14 PM   #10
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For the loudest targets under ideal conditions, the torpedos will begin homing at their maximum sensor ranges, with quiet targets under worse conditions being detected at shorter ranges, determined by the DW acoustics engine.
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Old 09-21-2005, 05:56 PM   #11
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Good news - I took another look at Maverick vs air and underwater targets problem and now I'm optimistic about possibility of making doctrine-level fix to this bug, so it would not home on submerged and air targets :-). Will try to do something with this tomorrow. It has the "magic" lock-on but anyway still follows doctrine orders, so the wrong lock can be simply canceled. Of course range would be reduced to realistic too, DP probably a bit lower.

Second thing - what about changing SLAM-ER into ASM missile or even into a Harpoon ? I think ASM missile is more needed for P-3 than land attack capability (anyway still partially retained with Maverick) ?
I'm NOT sure yet if it's possible to change SlamER into Harpoon. But should I try at all ? Or maybe SLAM-ER is needed and should be left unchanged ?

Cheers!
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:08 PM   #12
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I'm just getting out of 2 Mp games with friends (1h and 1h40 of game with 6 and 5 people, as everyday except wenesday where we are usually around 8 to 10).
And I really liked it with your MOD in MP.
really a lot.
Now, for US surface and airplanes, it's not anymore a turkey shot on russians subs.
There is a REAL work to find them and to kill them.
the game is much more well balanced, and games are WAY much interesting on both sides.

the counterpart, is that need more skill to be a good player (especillay on US airplanes and OHP), and some of us was afraid of the new settings.
But near all of them, from the first day, understood how the game will be more exiting with the MOD.
And we were not desappointed tonight.

So I must congrats you all, modders and people who help them, because you make DW becoming more exiting and interesting than before.

I must say (for whinners ...) :
let Sonalysts debugg, and let the modders modding.
you could be really completementary.

Many very good games in sight ...
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Old 09-21-2005, 08:49 PM   #13
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your MOD is like a drug : you could live without it, but once you tested it, you are addicted
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:21 PM   #14
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nice thing to hear, thanks !

by the way - beta of Maverick missile fix, missile doctrine changed to make Maverick unable to attack submerged and fast/high flying airborne targets, it's stand-alone mod:

edit: the fix will not prevent player from firing a missile on submerged or air target, but the missile will abort immediatelty and won't guide to it.
I also think about reducing Maverick seeker cone, it's not used at all for human player missiles and can lead to missile locking incidentally on unintended target. In real life Maverick is lock-on-before-launch, and if loses a lock, chances for reacquiring another target accidentaly are rather very small. But I'm not sure how are AI launched Mavericks guided, if they get "magic lock-on" from launching platform too or maybe need a working seeker to find target on their own...

http://members.chello.pl/m.ostrowski...ickFixBeta.zip

And two doctrine mods used in Lw&Ami mod, they were designed as stand-alone doctrine mods so here they are - can be used in stock version of the game without problems:

Torpedos Not Detonating on CMs mod:

http://members.chello.pl/m.ostrowski...natingOnCM.zip

Torpedo doctrine mod preventing AI from non-intentional sinking surface ships with ASW torpedos (though not work for supertankers and carriers, torp "safe" ceiling would have to be changed to over 170ft to make them safe):

http://members.chello.pl/m.ostrowski...sualityMod.zip
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Old 09-23-2005, 03:21 PM   #15
Molon Labe
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I'm both really really impressed and really really disapointed!

Impressed because I thought the Maverick bug was something modders would be unable to overcome...

And disapointed that SCS didn't fix this in the first patch, since it was known immediately after the release of DW 1.00 that the Maverick was engaging air targets.
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