Question about Steel Beasts

[Werewolf]

Hello everyone,

I was wondering, the new version 2.5xx of steel beasts, will it be purchasable later as a complete version or as an uppgrade only?.....I don´t want to buy the 2.4 now only to have to upgrade later if I can buy the whole pack at once......does anyone know?

[Skybird]

It seems to me the older version is not being sold since one or two weeks, with order having been placed on hold. An order you place now for the full version should be the new version 2.538 indeed.

http://www.esimgames.com/purchase.htm

First item on the order list:

Steel Beasts Pro PE
Includes v2.538 DVD, manual, and CodeMeter stick with v2.538 license.
(No upgrade is required!)
ON BACK ORDER. We should have stock in the first week of September.

Good choice of yours. Welcome to the club. You will soon think of it as actually being very cheap, when you realise what you get in return.

[Werewolf]

@Skybird

Thanks for the reply I hadn´t noticed that it was the 2.5 version they offered, I´ve focused on buying from the German Okaysoft since I thought that I could get it faster that way, but they only offer the 2.46something version and then I will need to upgrade later.....I´m really interested in that Centauro addition.

Yeah I think SteelBeasts is a good offer too, it´s my impression that you won´t get any more realistic simulation for PC than this......tanksims surely have moved on since the cr.... days of panzer commander . M1TP2 was really good, I still have it, but I got bored of only being able to play from US side and only in MBT´s. This should be awesome

By the way, you wouldn´t happen to be a glider pilot or something with that avatar of yours?

[Skybird]

I used a glider simulator, Condor, and did just one trip in a real one. Flightsims were a hobby of mine, namely FS9 and Falcon. As Condor's manual put it: if flying would be the language of man, soaring would be his poetry.

I seem to remember that the director of eSim said that Okaysoft also is on stop order and will dleiver the new version. However, be advised that it if more expejnsive via Okaysot. There you pay 125 EUROS (currently =159 Dollar). If you order in California, you pay the advertised 125 DOLLARS (currently =98 euros, 4 years ago I payed 88 Euros only...) Usually the envelope slips through customs duty, I have not heared of anyone ever who needed to pay customs. I got two parcels by eSim, 4 years (original release) and one year ago (2.460), and each time I got it after 7-8 days only since ordering. If I were you, I would go with direct ordering at eSim. 27 euros saved are 27 euros saved.

[Werewolf]

I used a glider simulator, Condor, and did just one trip in a real one. Flightsims were a hobby of mine, namely FS9 and Falcon. As Condor's manual put it: if flying would be the language of man, soaring would be his poetry.

Ah I see, yeah flying is wonderful, I flew gliders myself, 2 years, it was my dream to take it further and become a professional pilot, but my left ear stopped me

I seem to remember that the director of eSim said that Okaysoft also is on stop order and will dleiver the new version. However, be advised that it if more expejnsive via Okaysot. There you pay 125 EUROS (currently =159 Dollar). If you order in California, you pay the advertised 125 DOLLARS (currently =98 euros, 4 years ago I payed 88 Euros only...) Usually the envelope slips through customs duty, I have not heared of anyone ever who needed to pay customs. I got two parcels by eSim, 4 years (original release) and one year ago (2.460), and each time I got it after 7-8 days only since ordering. If I were you, I would go with direct ordering at eSim. 27 euros saved are 27 euros saved.

Well, last time I checked at Okaysoft they offered the 2.46 version and that was only a few days ago. I didn´t realize that they were that much more expensive in any way it´s better to wait for the full new version, probably the delivery time is almost the same and as you say 27 euros saved is 27 euros saved. I´ll just have to lean back and wait . By the way, are there any tools out there for modding the game? I´ve seen a lot of stuff about modified skins etc.

[Skybird]

Skins and some sounds can be modded, not more. They keep vehicle modding and changing the technical variables unavailable fromt he public, which makes perfect sense. Most ordinary people simply lack the knowledge and do not have the data to realistically construct new vehicles - having a realistically looking model, is one thing, equipping it with correct armour values and ballistics is something very different, and for these latter points you need to have expert and insider knowledge, or better: experience with the real stuff. Mind you, this sim is not primarily meant to adress the game market's desires, but the military customers decide (and pay for) what it looks like - by their orders of features. eSim provides the tools that are needed to make maps, which are made of two packs, height-maps (the wireframe model), and then texturing it and plastering it with objects. But that is advanced stuff and not many care for it. Better you check out what you already get, it is very plenty, the sim has many HUUUGE maps, and each of them can be covered with a new season and regional scheme easily.

But the good news is, that the mission editor is fantastic. It allows you to do very sophisticated designs, if you put some care and logic into it, nevertheless is easy to handle. I was busy with the also very good editors for Flashpoint and ArmA as well as Sub Command. All these editors also are very good and ergonomically designed, but to me SBP's editor beats them all. Also, you already learn it by learning to handle the mission planning tool - both are very much identical.

My guess is you will hold your hard copy in 2, maybe in 3 weeks in your hands.

[Werewolf]

Skins and some sounds can be modded, not more.

That was what I was referring to

Most ordinary people simply lack the knowledge and do not have the data to realistically construct new vehicles - having a realistically looking model, is one thing, equipping it with correct armour values and ballistics is something very different,

Exactly!

Mind you, this sim is not primarily meant to adress the game market's desires

And that is exactly why I "fell" for this sim immediately Realism! No more sacrifice of realism because of arcade shoot'em up crap, no idiotic game behaviour, no more historic limitations etc. etc. ....only as much realism and modern amoured combat as possible for a PC that's all I ask for.

eSim provides the tools that are needed to make maps, which are made of two packs, height-maps (the wireframe model), and then texturing it and plastering it with objects. But that is advanced stuff and not many care for it. Better you check out what you already get, it is very plenty, the sim has many HUUUGE maps, and each of them can be covered with a new season and regional scheme easily.

That sounds excellent to me .

The only damn thing are those 2-3 weeks hehe

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Werewolf

no idiotic game behaviour,

Well, sometimes the AI messes things up, too, like any AI. The point is it does so rarely only. The autonomous micromanouvering works very well, and the formation manouvering and tactical behaviour depends on the mission designer.

Just one advise, one of the few hniggles with SBP is that the AI does not reliably detect small water obstacles like small ponds of for example 2-3m size with steep walls. It tends to ignore them and get stuck. If this happens to you, ask again, I then tell you the possible remedies. Major rivers, bridging operaitons and using road bridges works well, though. Battle positions very near to rivers also is a critical issue, if the unit autonomously manouvers to adopt to enemy movement, it can sometimes retreat backwards into the river, and get stuck.

It is very rare, and you can avoid it by adapting your plan or choose your mission map accordingly. the map theme can also be easily edited to get rid of the water, locally, or on all the map. So although it may sound like a big issue, it is not. It is just annoying when it happens.

no more historic limitations etc. etc. ....only as much realism and modern amoured combat as possible for a PC that's all I ask for.

Not only modern. You now can set up original early cold war scenarios as well, the needed vehicles are there now. You can also tune the sim to reflect WWII-technology only, like I described in the SBP resources sticky.

That sounds excellent to me .

Actually many maps are several times bigger than the maximum area you can have in a mission (some 400 square-km, if I recall correctly, which is big enough for platoon, company and batallion action, most used mission maps are considerably smaller). So you can use several different parts of one map to use for various missions. You can also change the season and geograhic scheme of any given map: it then has the same heightmap, but different architecture, vegetation, desert, woodland or snow schemes, etc.

[Fercyful]

reading carefully all the replies here and now I really want to buy this game but have just two questions: can you control the T-55 or T-72? and if you can, do they have "cockpits"?

for me the game will cost 125 x 4 = 500 in my money (those things of global economy... ) and really want to try those tanks...

thanks!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Fercyful

reading carefully all the replies here and now I really want to buy this game but have just two questions: can you control the T-55 or T-72? and if you can, do they have "cockpits"?

for me the game will cost 125 x 4 = 500 in my money (those things of global economy... ) and really want to try those tanks...

thanks!

They are non-crewable. That means they can be used by mission designer for both Blue and Red, and player can move them via planning, attaching movement commands to them, or via "remote control" from external view, that way handling their movement, but all onboard management and firing is done by the AI.

The playable T-72 is in high demand by players.Unfortunately, players are not what found esim's income, and their military customers have little use and thus no demand for a playable T-72. for them it is not part of their inventory (Fins being the exceptuion), but just a "target". It is sufficient if realistic means are needed to destroy it, and if it autonomously defends by by realsitic means.

SBP has four versions of the T-72, though, the M, M1, B and M4CZ versions. The latter two are a very different class than the T-72 that got destroyed in Iraq '91 and'03 in so huge masses. Those were downgraded, inferior export versions of early T-72-types.

eSim indicated that due to the shift in real policies, their customers shift orientation as well, and equipement for low intensity and assymmetrical wars becomes higher in demand. That's why we see an increasing ammount of fully modelled IFVs as well as armoured trucks, like the Bushmaster, the Eagle-IV, various APCs and IFVs and the Lemur RWS. Such things become more important than heavy tanks for the real military, and SBP's future developements will likely reflect that.

Which means that sooner or later they must start to improve the basic-at-best infantry aspect of the sim.

I had changed a scenario yesterday, playing in Leopard-1A5DKs and having assistance by M-60A3s (boy, these things are slow...), versus T-55s and T-62. Was a complete new ballgame. It also makes you marvel at what fantastic tank in its time the Leo-1 has been. Oh, and the battle with old ammo versus old armour was very, very lethal. Much more than modern ammo versus modern armour. From that experience the Germans seem to have been right to prioritize speed and mobility in the Leo-1. None of these four tanks is armoured sufficiently to give it good survival chances when being hit. seen that way you do not really miss anything with the T-55 not being crewable. Or do you enjoy getting shot up all the time? Fighting in a T-55 versus Leo-1s is not fun...

If editing such a mission for having no laser and thermals included, then it really becomes difficult.

[Fercyful]

wow Skybird! thanks for the detailed answer.

Now I undertand why they are non-crewable... Hope the demand for the T-72 finally make it in the game...

seen that way you do not really miss anything with the T-55 not being crewable. Or do you enjoy getting shot up all the time?

thinking in that way better stay away of the T-55!

but... I still want the T-72

I think I will be happy playing with the Leopard. really enjoy reading your answer.

vielen dank!