The best flightsimulation on public market

[Skybird]

Skybird Is Soaring Again…

Making known an almost unknown jewel of flightsimulations:
Condor – The Competition Soaring Simulation

By Skybird
February 2008



“If flying would be the language of man, soaring would be it’s poetry.”



A green airstrip on a nice late Spring day in Slovenia, 2008. The sun is shining, the air is warm and the wind is lull. In the distance are the mountains, and groups of trees and farther away: dense forests are inviting for airborne sightseeing. Happy pilot Skybird is heading to have a happy hour of happy flying in the latest addition to his collection of flightsims from the past 20 years. Sitting inside a school glider, he demands the aerotow plane to hook up in front of him, the funny looking small plane comes from the right side, positions itself in front of him, hooks up, starts moving along the strip, and seconds later the sailplane is starting to roll as well. Wowh – Skybird soon will be airborne without sitting on an engine for the first time in his life!

But then, something goes wrong. The plane does not roll in a straight line, but starts to head to the right. Slight stick and pedal movement to correct that – and the thing starts sliding to the left, even more excessively. Another couple of seconds later the glider is doing a caricature of a skiing slalom behind the towplane, and is already ten meters above the ground with the towplane still rolling along the runway – that’s what I call lift! The trend continues and when the towplane lifts off, the tow already is broken and after a 15 seconds glide of irritation and fascination, Skybird is happily crisscrossing and half-looping the thing into the next trees up that hill that before looked so flat and harmless.

First lesson over. What have we learned? Don’t underestimate what is new to you. And in the wider context of not just this single event, but regarding the simulation to be introduced here: don’t think this is a light plaything, just because it is sailplanes only, and no “serious” motor and war stuff. In many things, “Condor – The Competition Soaring Simulator” probably is the best flight simulator you currently can buy for your money as long as not wishing to spend some hundred thousand dollars. This beauty that has remained unknown to most people for over three years now, is king of the heap in several aspects that emphasize both “flying” and “simulating” in the word flight simulation.

I never had so much enjoyment from having crashed a plane. Those few seconds already showed me what beautiful flying experience I would head for in the future. The feeling of being airborne and actually to fly was very intense. Those few seconds airborne compared to nothing I ever have experience in any flightsim I have played, and I played a lot: from the times of Sublogic’s Flight Simulator II , Digital Integration’s F16 Combat Pilot and Spectrum Holobyte’s Falcon (yes, the very first there ever was!), to the present times with it’s Flight Simulator 9 and X, X-Plane, IL-2, Falcon 4.0 and Flanker 2.5 ( which maybe had one of the most dynamic, “feeling alive” flight models so far).

Having been released in Spring 2005, Condor is still almost unknown to most sim-flyers, and I wonder why that is so. Using Google, I only found only few mentionings and reviews of it, in no way the number of sources compared to what is available for the mainstream sims as mentioned in the above paragraph. But where it was examined by a reviewer, it scored top notes and maximum points, and simflight.com announced it to be “product of the year 2005” Of all people I asked in real life, only one knew it. Asking in forums and on the web, only subsim.com’s Chock indicated he knew it. Already hidden in Europe, in America it seems to be almost completely absent. Maybe that is because there have been soaring simulators before, three or four, and none of them became too popular or any famous for their “realism”, I tried two of them years ago, and was left unimpressed. Or it is because people cannot imagine that you can have a good simming experience without super-complex virtual cockpits with two hundred buttons and screens around you, or action-paced air duels with fighters dancing around you in the sky. Both assumptions are wrong. There have been very few games only were a description would include words like “charming”, or “beautiful”, and some more games there have been where you would say they offered immersion and atmosphere, but say: how many games or sims come to your mind where you would think in terms of “elegance” and “relaxation”, even though excitement is there?



Distribution

The simulation is available via CD in Europe, several sources I checked in America as well did not list it (including amazon.com). Beyond that, it is available as download purchase as well, which for Americans seem to be the way out. Since the price after VAT does not vary, I opted for the CD version, and got delivered the latest version (1.12) of the software including all available speech packages. I spend 46 Euros. Price for download is 40 Euros before VAT.



Content, and mods

I got a CD, a DVD-case, and a small 18 pages booklet on how to install and setting up the options. From within the sim, and as pdf, a 44 pages main manual is available, too.

By default the sim comes with only one flight zone, Slovenia, featuring some 37.000 km2, which would be almost a square of 200x200 km. – but until today, 18 additional areas have been turned into flyable terrain by the community, from the Italian and Swiss Alps over the Grand Canyon, to several other flight resorts, mostly in Europe. These mods are free. Their sizes mostly vary between around 100 and close to 400 MB.

There are 13 different types of flight planes included, arranged in several different categories. Since this is a high fidelity simulation regarding flight physics, the developer does not allow “wild modding” regarding airplanes, and insists that any additional planes by the community must pass his tests and satisfy his demands, to keep the quality of the flight models and the competition in online races on a high level. However, several such planes have been released meanwhile in an all-in-one package, but for a small fee of 10 euros. A second package like this is under preparation. New skins are possible, but are not automatically delivered via the server during OL action, they must be manually exchanged amongst participants before.
While modders may be disappointed that they cannot do their own independent planes, I myself applaud that decision of the developers, which they comment in the manual with these reasonable remarks:

Condor uses an advanced flight dynamics model which demands a lot of accurate input data for every plane. To assure realistic flight characteristics of the planes, the data must meet our quality standards and must be critically reviewed and adapted to our flight model. We are convinced this can only be achieved by having a thorough understanding of the internals of Condor's physics model.
That's why we have decided not to allow the development of 3rd party planes for Condor. It would result in potentially nice looking gliders but with unrealistic and uncomparable flight characteristics which would ruin the soul of Condor which is fair, realistic simulation of competition soaring.
We have, however, given users the possibility to design the 3D models of the gliders they would like to see in Condor. With some knowledge of 3D modeling, with our cooperation and feedback, it is possible to build the glider to the phase where we take it over and finish it. We add pilot animations, moving surface animations, instrument panel gauges, textures, flight model and, if required, custom sounds. The plane then goes to testing to our beta team and when all errors are fixed, it's ready to be released in one of the plane packs.

Since Spring 2005, there have been 12 patches being released. I am not aware of major issues being left by now. I think this record qualifies for a description of dedicated customer service, and ongoing support. I must say, though, that changes between the menus, and entering the sim, and vice versa, can lead to irritating pauses up to one minute where the screen looks as if the game has stalled, and text boxes appear that are blacked out. But it hasn’t crashed – just wait. I still have not had a single crash or freeze. Well, after three years and 12 patches…

Online action has been very much on the minds of the developer from beginning on. Up to 32 players can line up for racing and acro competition. Last time I checked the website of the developer and the list of available dedicated servers, I counted 22 entries.



Technical Specifications

The developer recommends these minimum specs:

OS: Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 2000 (Apple computers can use Condor via Boot camp)
Processor: +1 GHz (non-Celeron)
Memory: 256 MB
Graphics card: DX7+ compatible video card with at least 64 MB memory
DirectX and all drivers up to date.
As usual, the better the hardware, the better the experience.

I run it under Windowx XP, on a P-IV, 3 GHz, 1 GB RAM, FX7800 GS (AGP, 256 MB, driver 84.21), Audigy 2. With a resolution of 1280x1024, 32 bit, all graphical options on maximum, I achieve totally fluent frame rates, always, even when turning at high speed. I use a CH Fighterstick, a CH Pro Throttle, Simped Vario Pro USB pedals, and Track IR4 (mouselook mode).

The sim supports force feedback equipment, but I haven’t tested that. The developer describes it like this:

Force feedback until now was never really done with a realism in mind. Most simulators used it as a 'movie' effect. This however changes with Condor , as it was designed with force feedback joysticks in mind for the ultimate experience. Condor simulates forces on the stick directly from its advanced flight dynamic model and controlling trimmer actually moves your stick like in real life!

Getting into it

There is a pretty solid set of options by which you can tune the sim to your needs, especially visually, but I would assume that on most system nowadays it should run pretty well and smooth even with visual options set to high. As said before, on my system it was always absolutely smooth. For those pilots not using a joystick setup software, the sim has integrated options to calibrate the three axis’ sensitivity in a non-linear manner, if desired.

There is a flight school included, offering lectures in four classes from Basics over Intermediate and Advanced lectures to Acrobatics. Some of the stuff is pretty much essential with regard to weather, thermals, and how to find the best relation between glide speed, sink rate and gliding range. You get trained in the arts of (realistically conducted) aerotow and winch takeoffs, how to make use of the yawstring, you learn what there is in ridge soaring, wave soaring, thermal soaring and upslope winds, navigation, MC theory, loops and stall turns. The lessons are explained in cockpit, with the pilot having the option to just watch and have an invisible instructor carrying out the needed actions, or to handle the steps and procedures himself. In writing on the screen, needed keycommands are also given within the explanatory text.

These lessons are better considered to be the basics of soaring theory. Since being able to make best use of the weather and winds is a must, a glider pilot better knows how and where to find the thermal energy he needs to keep in the air, and to win altitude. Else, even if sailplanes have ridiculously high lift factors, every glide inevitable not only moves the plane forward, but also downwards at varying speed.

The sim allows to save the complete flight as a replay that later can be watched while manipulating camera perspectives, zoom factors, and replay speed. Such files can be collected and distributed.

The sim also allows the flight to be saved in IGC format. This standard allows the flight to be loaded into Google Earth v4.2 upwards. You then see your airplane in replay over the terrain maps provided by Google Earth, inside Goggle Earth. Fun!

Next, the flight you have just done can be saved as a ghost. Later that ghost, several ghosts I think, can be loaded into your real flying, and that way you can fly against yourself. This is a solution that I consider not to be an improvised solution for the absence of AI planes, but it has real value and merit in itself. The AI planes are left out intentionally, says the develoeper – they had installed them, but then removed them - the AI proved to have been too good! Possible that they will come back in a downgraded incarnation in a later patch.

And finally, the sim can use the serial port to attach a hardware PDA and feed it with life simulation data in NMEA data format that also appears on the virtual PDA the simulated sailplanes often have installed in their cockpits. It is no gimmick, but has functionality, providing multiple pages of maps and navigation info, wind data, and markers to line up for hitting target boxes and goal markers.

With so many save game features, yopu can take it for granted that you can view your flight record on map, and analyse your lateral movement on map, while checking your vertical movement via moving graphs in altitude diagrams.



t.b.c.

[Skybird]

Graphics

First, the landscape. The default scenery is a mesh for Slovenia with a resolution of 90m. It is made of digital data obviously, and the sim also supports high resolution standards like SRTM and DME. Textures are hand-drawn. Let’s face it, mostly it does not look as diverse and variable as Microsoft Flight Simulator, the meadows and forest are very greenish if you do not increase monitor brightness (then they look very nice), and the agricultural areas have a checkered pattern looking like a light and dark brown woollen blanket. Villages and buildings are there, but without greater detail in their painting, the look very much snowy white with red roofs.

However, all that does not matter, for the overall impression of the land you see below you is convincing, and mountain areas with forest even look as beautiful as in other flight sims, especially forest have been created with plenty of individual trees, and the the interaction between objects, vegetation, colour, sky and rolling terrain elevation gives you are very realistic modelling of the landscape. I must say: I like it very much, although having been sceptical when seeing my first screenshots. Still pics give a misleading impression with this sim. It is also extremely friendly on frames. Generic objects that are kept simple and limited in variety (like the trees), also help with this goal, of course.

Then there is the sky. This is done with great artistic excellence. Since you can set up a very huge combination of different weather constellations, and time of day influences the light conditions as well as shadows from clouds, there is really some beauty to see. You can even fly at sunset/dawn, although then graphical realisation does not compare to what you can see in IL2, or FS9/FSX. But you probably do not fly at that time of day anyway. Blending effects at daytime when looking into the sun, fading in and fading out the brightness maybe is the best and most realistic I have ever seen in any flightsim, leaving IL2 behind. Single cloud objects sometimes are a bit cartoonish and too sharp in their contours, but bad weather and huge cloud formations with varying volumes and then flying close to a mountain ridge totally drowns you in immersion. The weather model sees changing of thermals over the course of the day, and the visual presentation is not far behind the physical superiority of Condor in this regard. Flying in heavy storm and heavy rain is not possible though. But again: who would do that in reality anyway.

Planes are looking elegant and fragile, and I cannot get enough to see the fragile structure of my glider seeing soaring by in replay. It simply is a majestic and relaxing sight. The 3D models are welldone and flawless, the painting maybe not as photorealistic as in temporary flightsims, but they absolutely deserve no criticism, for they have no real flaws or weaknesses. Most convincing is the 3D modelling, though, they look great. Moving parts are animated, and when a plane opens it’s wing valves and get’s rid of the water in the ballast tanks (used to transform potential into kinetic – speed - energy), it produces contrail-like vapour that makes it look as if it is in fire or has ignited afterburner.

The virtual pilot is fully animated, and both hands move according to the action you just do, the right hand moves the stick, the left hand operates flaps or brakes etc. Due to the dynamic flightmodel, nothing ever stands still, your head is constantly moving and so is the cockpit around, sometime more sometimes less gently. There is no 2D cockpit.

The sim supports Track IR in mouseview mode, that compares to IL2, but where IL2 allows only three fixed zoom factors, the cockpit in Condor can be zoomed in and out smoothly via keystrokes. Close zoom reveals that the instruments and panels are very well done, and the gauges look very realistic indeed. Gliders do not have much stuff packed into the cockpit, but each cockpit of courses matches the type of glider it is representing, of course. The PDA offers 4 main pages of map, navigation, final glide, and wind and thermals, three having two sub-pages. The resolution is a bit low, but it is not really a problem, and maybe matches reality – I don’t know. At least one cockpit also has a dedicated LCD screen.

Some of the modded terrains that are available, use different texturing methods. For the Italian Alps, for example, there is a terrain with phototextures. It gives the sim a very different look, obviously. I cannot say it is better or worse than the default graphics, but it is different. As it is typical with photo sceneries, you need to be a certain amount of altitude above the surface in order to enjoy no “pixel salad”, but to see a real great looking terrain.



Sound

There is not much need for sounds, but what there is, is convincing. You hear the air moving outside the canopy, and changes in this sound with speed changing; the airframe will produce accustic reminders that you put it under stress, and the motor of the aerotow plane obviously can be heard too. Admiring your plane when flying by, will give you Doppler effects. Handling the controls also causes accustic background. So, no gimmicks like fantasy sound effects and music, but all what you would need in a high fidelity sim focussing on realism - realism was not let down by missing out some sounds that should be there: what is needed, IS there. The sounds are, according to the developer, digitally recorded from inside the cockpit.



The bread and butter of Condor: Physics and Flight Model

We now come to the part where this sim really shines and were the toy-like wannabe-“simulators” get separated from the real simulations, and of the latter, there aren’t many.

The physics model in Condor is a blast. The developer claims that the wide range of variables describing the flight models get updated 500 times per second. The plane reacts to the medium it is embedded in, that is the always moving, never stillstanding air, which is object to the various kinds of winds and airstreams you encounter in reality (for precise description I quote the developer in the following):

- on sunny ridges, you find anabatic winds (up slope winds),
- ridge lifts with leeward downwind and turbulences and venturi effects,
- waves behind ridges, with wavelength depending on wind speed and stability of the atmosphere,
- three-dimensional isotropic turbulences describing both thermal and mechanical turbulences.
And of course thermals, which means rising warm air, with the intensity of the lift depending on terrain sun exposure and ground features like forests, fields and villages. Thermals change with daytime passing, the changing sun conditions can increase or reduce thermals, and can make them disappear or create new ones. Time of day effects the way you can fly. Also, thermals modelled are no static entities: starting on the ground they reach the cloud base, the cloud becomes bigger and more dense and later dissipates, which causes the air below to sink again.

The atmospheric model that way is built to be second to none in any present simulation. Forget flying as if on rails, in condor you will experience a constant interaction between plane and atmosphere, with you trying to find a dynamic balance allowing you to soar the longest or fastest. You need to pay close attention to the map, the terrain features, weather conditions and time of day in order to learn how to “read” the environment you are in to find strong thermals, where to expect sufficient lifts, and how to climb over that mountain or pass that wide open flat terrain to reach the next upwind opportunity. That is a challenge, I tell you, and I admit that I am a complete novice at this, and find it very difficult. Thank God there are helpers that could be switched on and off: like bubbles in an aquarium, you can activate a bubble-style visualisation of thermals in your surrounding, that indicates the direction and intensity of them.

Flying technique also has a word here. Currently, still being a total amateur in the world of soaring, I find it doifficult to fly in a way and circle inside a thermal so that I really create lift and can win altitude – right now I am happy if I am not loosing any additional altitude.

13 planes are included, and they can carry different amount of water ballast (that before landing you need to empty into the air, making the sailplane looking as if on fire), and the centre of gravity also can be influenced. Choosing your plane from one of the half dozen classes confronts you with basic technical data on their flight characteristics, especially the speed polar diagrams that describe the plane’s translation of sink rate into speed gain, and range.

Sooner or later you also get confronted with MC theory, which is a mathematical description of the “best glide”, so to fly at what speed in order to have the smallest altitude loss and thus the longest range. Or if predetermining at what altitude you want to reach the next waypoint (because you expect a lift there, for example), how fast you can fly in order to cross the distance and arriving there at said altitude. Finding the best glide and the best speed is pretty much the bread and butter of soaring indeed. Reading the weather competently is the spread.

Fascinating stuff! No other sim I know gives me such an intense feeling to move in actual streams of air. It is a both relaxing and exciting, focussed way of flying. In FS9 you have plenty of systems to check, and many buttons to push, yes. In Falcon and IL-2 you have plenty of hornets trying to sting your tail, fine. But what they do not mediate to you is a sense of actually flying indeed, and being embedded in a real, 3-dimensional, dynamically changing medium. It is here where Condor is way ahead and out of sight.



What else there is…

I’m a shy boy and thus never practice online. Even my beloved Steel Beasts Pro I do not play online. I flew online once, and that was traumatizing: long years ago, a virtual Falcon squad invited me for testflights and later membership. It was the climax of my active Falcon years. I did very well, and shot down several planes. One guy really gave me a headache and was dancing in my sights like crazy, yelling like a panicking idiot in French and begging his buddies to save him from me. I had problems with my comms setup too, probably a wrong channel, and my headset was a mess and was leased only and did not function properly anyway, and I don’t speak French, and so that was what I assumed: that he called for help. After having sent him down I learned after RTB that he was in fact my squadron leader (a Canadian), and he did not yell for help, but cursed that German idiot that was trying so hard to get his bottom toasted. I also ruined his record number of flights surviving undamaged. Well, that day I flew online even twice: for the first and the last time in my life. That was - hm, seven or eight years ago I assume. Two lessons to be learned from this: first, online better never speak French, but English or German. Second: never make Skybird considering you to be prey.

So, I cannot comment on Condor’s performance regarding online action – but I can say that this is what it has been designed for especially. In fact there is a lot of league and class racing going on, a liost of dedicated servers can be found on the developer’s website. There are regular events, and established leagues and clubs. Up to 32 players can join in one match. I quote from their website:

Support for up to 32 pilots. Simultaneous Internet and LAN support. Dedicated server option. Central web based servers list for easy connecting. Host configures flightplan which is automatically propagated to clients (task, weather, plane class, realism options). Real time scoring and support for regatta starts for maximum excitement. Radio frequencies support when chatting.

As I already said, the possibility of flying with or against yourself by using ghosts, is very inviting and satisfying. You can also make beautiful movies and great screenshots with that option even when you do not wish to go online, or have no access to the internet.

Regarding competition disciplines, this is possible: From FAI rules to innovative Condor specific additions. Classic and window type sectors. User configurable penalty zones. Classic and regatta starts. Configurable penalty points for various infringements. Tail hunting - "eating" other players tail knuckles.

Dedicated acrobatics is also possible, at least one of the 13 default planes is specifically designed form this.

Planes are filling six categories: Standard, Open, School, Acro, FAI15, 18m.
The sim has detailed damage models and also correctly simulates things like flutter, high G stress, collisions.

You noted the missing of screenshots. That is intentional, for the frozen pictures are misleading and most likely will scare people away, the textures of the environment are not really top class, but only in motion you see that they nevertheless do a pretty good job for the purpose and goal of this simulation. You can find screenshot from the developer’s mainpage here:

Main Site:http://www.condorsoaring.com/index.htm

And their main forum here:http://forum.condorsoaring.com/

However, I checked videotube and found two very beautiful and two very illustrating movies that you should check out:

The first is the default scenery that comes with the sim. This is how it looks out of the box (increase brightness of your monitor - youtube videos are almost always too dark):

Condor default -

Next is an addon scenery with great soundtrack by Pink Floyd:
“The Essence of Condor” -

This is photorealistic scenery from the Italian Alps, with great group competition flying:
“The Condor Challenge” -

And finally, to get you back on the tough ground of reality, addon scenery which is done with the default graphics:


This should give you some impressions that are representative. But you do not know the dark side of soaring before you have not had your first flight in real cloudy weather with big monster clouds



Conclusions

The age of this sim should be counted as an advantage, because on most system it should run smooth. While the visuals are of age, obviously, they nevertheless completely and totally serve their purpose and do the job that they should do – give you a good visual feedback of your environment, and how it feels to soar just one meter above the tips of trees. The flight model is beyond doubt, the physics and the weather model is the reason why I label this the best flightsimulation on public market today – and some months ago, in one thread, our friend Chock, who seem to have both real pilot and reviewing experience if I am not mistaken, said something similar.
If you are interested in realistic flight simming, you cannot afford to ignore this one any longer. Don’t be scared by the theme of soaring: what scares you maybe, in reality is the source of this sim’s strength and fascination. You have so much freedom of action, and you get such a complete, complex and immersive experience, that I cannot imagine how anyone liking flightsims can find this one boring.

On a side note, one publisher offers dedicated sailplane hardware (gauges, panels), even with Condor explicitly being addressed.

the sim is almost unknown to the wide public, but insiders - real sailplane pilots - love it. Many of them say it helps them to keep up their skills and routines during the winterbreak.

Get your ticket and take a ride – you will be amazed what sailplanes can do, and with what great elegance and “Grazie” – it is almost stunning just to sit and watch.

The world record of high altitude soaring is held by Steve Fossett (USA) and Einar Enevoldson: 15.447 meters, on 30th August 2006. The world record in long distance soaring is held by Klaus Ohlmann (GER) und Karl Rabeder (AUT): 3.009 km on 21st January 2003from the southern tip of South America up to the north, along the Atlantic coast. The world speed record for a 1.000 km triangle is held by Helmut Fischer (GER): 170 km/h on 5th January 1995.

“Just” a sailplane…?

See you up there.

Edit 03-02-2008: Screenshots set up here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=767192&posted=1#post767192
scroll the page, there are around two dozens, in the middle, and at the end.

[CCIP]

Very cool! When I'm in an aerodynamic mood, I'll surely check this one out. In any case it sounds like a must for my collection

Thanks for the heads up!

I do feel compelled to point out something...

Originally Posted by Skybird

but where IL2 allows only three fixed zoom factors, the cockpit in Condor can be zoomed in and out smoothly via keystrokes.

Actually while this is true of the default key setup, you can actually bind keys to increase-decrease FOV the same way in IL-2. Just so you know

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Very cool! When I'm in an aerodynamic mood, I'll surely check this one out. In any case it sounds like a must for my collection

Thanks for the heads up!

I do feel compelled to point out something...

Actually while this is true of the default key setup, you can actually bind keys to increase-decrease FOV the same way in IL-2. Just so you know

Ah, I did not know, i only knew "wide", "medium" , "narrow"

[HunterICX]

A good review skybird

was a interesting read.

HunterICX

[GlobalExplorer]

Now if THAT could only be turned into a combat sim :rotfl:

[goldorak]

No freeware third party airplanes/gliders is a big no no for me.
Guess I'll stick with Fs 2004 and FlightGear.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by goldorak

No freeware third party airplanes/gliders is a big no no for me.
Guess I'll stick with Fs 2004 and FlightGear.

Feel free. But one cannot argue with their reasons they gave. They see it right.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Feel free. But one cannot argue with their reasons they gave. They see it right.

No, the only reason is that they want to capitalize even on freeware addons.
Not even Microsoft has gone that way with the flight simulator series, nor X-plane which are both commercial sims, and of course not flight gear which has a very realistic flight model and is free.
I'm sorry but I'm not paying 10 € for what are 98% 5 freeware gliders models with little input from the developers of the sim.

[Skybird]

Feel free. But you do not know the sim, and cannot judge the standards it set for simulation of flightmodel and thermals, winds, airstreams. Do not compare this to Microsoft. This part of their message is very true:

Condor uses an advanced flight dynamics model which demands a lot of accurate input data for every plane. To assure realistic flight characteristics of the planes, the data must meet our quality standards and must be critically reviewed and adapted to our flight model. We are convinced this can only be achieved by having a thorough understanding of the internals of Condor's physics model.
That's why we have decided not to allow the development of 3rd party planes for Condor. It would result in potentially nice looking gliders but with unrealistic and uncomparable flight characteristics which would ruin the soul of Condor which is fair, realistic simulation of competition soaring.
We have, however, given users the possibility to design the 3D models of the gliders they would like to see in Condor. With some knowledge of 3D modeling, with our cooperation and feedback, it is possible to build the glider to the phase where we take it over and finish it. We add pilot animations, moving surface animations, instrument panel gauges, textures, flight model and, if required, custom sounds. The plane then goes to testing to our beta team and when all errors are fixed, it's ready to be released in one of the plane packs.

This si is used by real saoring pilots, only in their community this title has raised awareness. And they as well as internet flyer do not want the invasion of the Uber-God gliders during online races. Creating a 3D model and skins is one thing (and you are pefectly free to do that with Condor, the SDK is there), but I am sure that most mpodders will fail miserable in attaching reasonable flightmodels to it that match the real plane that they wish to model, and fits into the competiton without having faults or unfair cheats, advantages, etc. And btw, neither Microsofts FS nor X-plane feature realistic and complete flight models - until today! Condor does, and by having seen it in action I am sure that this cannot be acchieved without a lot of background knoweldge - more than most modders will have.

So, feel free to not use Condor, and feel free to wish for flightsims and games to be moddable. Just do not attack the developer (by far no great and evil commercial enterprise) for not giving you what you want and labelling them as money-hunters where the truith is they have perfectly reasonable reasons. Condor is not IL-2 circus where people even are not satisfied after having collected several hundreds of skions and planes. So pick yourself a less complex and less realistic simulation like those you mentioned, and modd away, fine.

And finally, they allow developement of modded terrain maps. You can download them, use them for free. Another hint that your accusation of them just hunting money is not correct.

Steel Beasts also is not accessible for modders beyong mission creating, skinning, and making new sounds. Vehicle developement is a total no-no. For the same reason: not compromising reality.

Originally Posted by goldorak

Not even Microsoft has gone that way with the flight simulator series, nor X-plane which are both commercial sims,

MS cannot afford that, they know too well that the modular constuction is the strong argument in favour of Flight Simulator, and is the reason for it'S long life and popularity. Comparable thing can be said about x-plane. without free modding, microsoft wopuld have lost far more customers to X-plane, which in several regards is superior to FS.

what are 98% 5 freeware gliders models with little input from the developers of the sim.

Well, nobody forces you to do spend any money at all, so why your offensive tone? If you now that only 2% of work in a plane model package for Condor is the physics and flight model and the beta-testing, you probably already know the insides of Condor so well that you may want to consider to ask them for a job, because they will be happy for sure to have additional help from somebody who even can teach them some things - they are a small team only.



I also must say that the differences of the gliders in Condor are not as spectacular as between planes in FS or IL-2. I myself do not plan to unlock those five additonal planes in the first plane pack. 13 planes is more than enough for me. Ajnd if I want, I can re-skin them all.

[SUBMAN1]

Looks nice, but also looks pricey for what you get.

X-Plane has the same airflow dynamics, a ton more aircraft, for less money.

-S

[goldorak]

Skybird : I didn't use an offensive tone in my critic.
I just feel that a flight sim that doesn't allow freeware aircraft is just not worth it. Not when the market has a lot of products raging from arcadish to quite realistic. And I stress that this is my opinion.
What I read on the official website of that sim is that the developper is not making new aircraft.
He is relying on the modding community to come with new models, and here is where I find it strange, instead of letting said freeware modders to give away their creations he wants to "quality control" those models and in the process making you pay for this privilege.
Are the original modders getting paid by the way ? This is not clear at all.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Skybird : I didn't use an offensive tone in my critic.
I just feel that a flight sim that doesn't allow freeware aircraft is just not worth it. Not when the market has a lot of products raging from arcadish to quite realistic. And I stress that this is my opinion.
What I read on the official website of that sim is that the developper is not making new aircraft.
He is relying on the modding community to come with new models, and here is where I find it strange, instead of letting said freeware modders to give away their creations he wants to "quality control" those models and in the process making you pay for this privilege.
Are the original modders getting paid by the way ? This is not clear at all.

Probably not. But the y said they only react to wishes and desires for new planes. These new wishes have been so many that in three years they put a package with 5 new planes together - that much demand there is anyway! ;

I completely accept you not to choose this sim, and I understand that moddability for you is a must in a game you want to buy. that is okay, but modding is just not the focus of Condor, but realism, and realism pushed to the max. Physics models are a very problematic task inflight sims, and they are prone to errors getting implemented. Richt now, the existing planes being used in online races are said by soaring pilots to match their real world counterpoarts very well, and the competiton between different types is balanced. to let every Peter and Paul mess up the physics modeol that in it's own regards probably is the most complicated on the market, would be insane. When I said your tone were offensive, I referred to your - by all reason: unjustified - accusations that they were just looking to make money, and that they only plan to add their 2% of work to packages that others have completed to 98%. I admit, I found that statement a bit rich, and unfair.

The developer, as to my best knowledge, consists of only two people, btw. This is not evil, money-craving company, but a pair of enthusiasts wanting to turn their real world hobby to the most realistic simulation heights possible. and how goes the old saying: if you want the job getting done well - do it yourself. the result of their efforts proves them right.

So in no way I want to tell you you must buy this thing, and you are not allowed to say you want to mod something, or that you must agree with my sympathy for this sim. You must all that not, of course. Mod away other moddable games, fine for me. But I found some of your comments a bit unfair towards the developer, and thus my response. Their reasons not to allow wild modding of ingame physics are very reasonable and make a lot of sense. And it seems that the community that is aware of condor and plays it online does not want it any other way anyway.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If you want the job getting done well - do it yourself.

I can't stress this enough.

Well that is a nice review Skybird and correlates with my own intuitive feeling as I was the first time on their site, following a link from here. This is definately on my to by list.

Interestingly, I see here quite some paralels to my own development effort. I even came up with the same ghost technique idea to teach the AI maneuvering tasks with little effort. The recent upgrade als started to create that feeling that you are moving in a fluid medium on a floating and drifting platform. This feeling is very believable and thrilling. I think I haven't experienced it before in the sims I have seen so far.

The Silent Hunter ship dynamics and ship controls appear like a bad joke to me now. It doesn't even reach the level of my very first prototype. It's unbelievable how much this aspect is neglected even by the big productions but it adds so much to the immersion and experience.

As the 2% vs. 98% I can maybe say something about it since I do the same thing in my own sim. Well, calibrating and finetuning the behavior of a vehicle can be incredebly time consuming and daunting. It's incredebly testing heavy. I remember after the last upgrade having to recalibrate the physics completely. Boy that was a pain in the ass. And I would consider my physics system still as rather simple. But before you can get the numbers right you need to figure out how exactly a vehicle behaves, what can take overall even more time. I don't see the devs do anything wrong here. 10 bucks is a low prise actually. Subtract the costs and taxes from it and not much will be left of it.

[Skybird]

Around two dozen screenshots I have posted on this page of the running screenshot thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=767192&posted=1#post767192

Scroll the page. there is some in the middle, and some at the end.