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Old 11-26-2019, 03:54 PM   #196
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Yes, I will definitly need to work on the color balance.
But luckily it's quite easy to change the colors.


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Old 11-26-2019, 04:24 PM   #197
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Yes a darker shade of blue works better and good to know the colors can be changed easily, will allow for differentiating between world oceans and seas when you expand the sim.

I must say though that still pictures do not justice to the sea, the animation is really good and makes it so much more alive

One question, do you plan to keep the targeting stations in 2D as of now with the 3D window (Rangefinder) or will they be full 3D? I think 2D is good enough and makes for an easier layout of pop up windows for the computer, rangefinder, etc, allowing you to combine all those functionalities in a single place (More logical for a single player) but of course 3D is always somehow more immersive.
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Old 11-26-2019, 05:00 PM   #198
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Yes, I am quite satisfied with this shader, and the performance is nice!
It's funny how the better understanding of code you get and the more complicated code you write, the better the performance!?
My first attempts at water, as you can see on the early pages of this thread, looked terrible and was super laggy...






I did have a 3d interface for the fire director for a while.
You can see it here, 2 minutes in:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2536683&postcount=46


Sadly it had very bad performance, and there was alot of issues.
The fire director uses a picture-in-picture concept which is performance hungry. And when you enable the stereoscopic rangefinder it is 2 pictures-in-pictures.
So for now until I find a better solution, it will be 2d.
I may improve the textures and make it feel 3d!
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Old 11-27-2019, 03:35 AM   #199
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Ah yes I had forgotten that early version

Some aspects of it where quite good, but then again it is probably the fact that the current 2D one isn't yet completely developed.

This is an area where I would like to help, though time is a scarce commodity for me. You might know I did my own GUI for SH3 years ago, and I am a devoted fan of manual targetting, so I could maybe do some suggestions and artwork concept for you to check. Most important thing would be first of all to know what base controls and extra (enabled on command) panels you want to have.

I believe the most intuitive layout is what they actually had in real life i.e. center of screen is the view to the external world, center top of it the bearing indicators, center bottom the operating knobs and readout for the rangefinder. Then you can add to the left and right the extra panels -activated on command- for radar, computer and gunnery control (Turrets and fire buttons).
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Old 11-27-2019, 01:28 PM   #200
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Yes, it looked quite cool the 3d fire director, but with the amount of info/buttons required some 2d interfaces will be needed anyway.
I have yet to decide and know which buttons and functions should be accesible at the fire director screen.
The other functions will probably be placed on interactable panels in the director room.
Many of the controls you need to access would actually be in totally different rooms.
For example in the fire director I have added a artillery switchboard, which would be far bellow deck in reality.
Based on this photo from Prinz Eugen:



There is extremely little reference photos from the german warships, so my fire director is based on this one from Bismarck:



Here is Prinz Eugen again, main plotting room:



The radar:


So that's atleast the estetic style I am going to aim towards in the HUD design.
And all this I want in one HUD
I would love to see/hear your ideas!
As stated I still don't know exactly which buttons are needed on the HUD, I will try to summarize it soon.
But apart from technical functions, I also need a panel for interaction with AI crew.
For example to designate targets, report distance to a target for the AI to calculate speed and heading of the target, and various fire orders.
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Old 11-27-2019, 01:59 PM   #201
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I had seen those pics, and I have Mullenheim-Rechberg's book. The design layout has to combine all the firing operations and data aquisition, so panels that switch on/off are the obvious way to go. The permanent part of the layout must be the viewport in the centre with bearing on top, everything else on the sides and bottom can change on command from range/course/speed finding to firing commands.

I think you will need a permanent bar on the bottom with quick access to stations and append to it other switchable panels like navigation info (Compass and speed repeater) and crew orders. Also, bear in mind you will need to double the use of firing control as torpedo director because these ships were equipped with torpedoes!

The crew orders panel could enable as translucent over the screen when called, so that you do not lose sight of the rest. The orders there should be able to be programmed to a key or key combo by the user, or use the panel knob.

Anyway yes first thing you need is to list the actions/commands you want, ideally make a sequence of the fire ranging procedure and what functions need be used at each moment, then it becomes clearer how to start organizing the layout.
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Old 11-28-2019, 03:59 AM   #202
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I did read the Barons book, Bismarck Survivor Story. Very interesting read!

And it really gives a sense on how big these ships were and how complicated it was to have situational awareness.

Yes, panels that can be switched between is definitly a must, organized in some nice way.

The torpedo station will probably be done in a different screen since it would have totally different controls/settings.

The secondary artillery on the other hand should be controlled from the main director.
I still haven't decided how much control to have over the secondaries.
Should it be each and every gun individually as with the main artillery, or more like port guns/starboard guns.
It can easily get overwhelming, allthough I personally love total control over each single barrel.

If I could I would manage the reloading procedure aswell!
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Old 11-28-2019, 04:48 AM   #203
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you probably already have the books by M J. Whitley on German Capital Ships and Cruisers - but i was just perusing my copy to see if it had any interior pics,
unfortunately not, however in reading the fire control section on the scharnhorst it brings some questions to mind


is what you are implementing in the game reflective of the Zielanweisergeraete (ZAG) target indicator sight


And what was the C30 Fire control equipment - is this in the design



and will you be bring time of day/night changes into the game and if so, searchlights will be a must for the night setting - i would love to see a ww2 naval game with decent searchlight depiction - the only game i can think of that has searchlights in it iare Action Stations! from RAW and Warship Combat Navies at War from NWS but those were tactical strategy games
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:22 AM   #204
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I haven't read those books! But I ordered them from the library now :-)


The ZAG's I believe was target designators for the flak guns.
I do not know much about them, so I cannot really implement them in detail.
But I plan on adding target designation to the fire director for surface targets, in a simple form.


I haven't heard about the C30. So I don't know what it is.


Yes, night battles are mandatory! But I haven't started on simulating night time yet.
I would love to have the searchlights controllable, but it will be a graphical challenge for me.


Now when the water and light shaders start to take shape, I can soon start working on the night ambience.
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:54 AM   #205
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ok thats good to hear re night, and i hope the whitley books are of value



just regarding the watershader, i think the darker blue is much better overall, but all the little crinkled looking effects kind of make teh water look like jelly a little, so i am wondering whether you can change the intensity of them - decreasing it or maybe increasing its scale as a texture - sorry i dont know how it all works programming wise.


but you know what i am meaning yes? that static broken glass/jelly look on the surface doesnt need to be so strongly present, - but leave it if it is easier and it looks okay in teh still shot, i would be curious to know what it looks like from a distance as the video is more of a close up view
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:15 AM   #206
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Yes, I know which part of the water you are refering to. And I don't really like it either.

It should be fairly easy to fix.
I think the water looks a little too messy at the moment.
I got so happy when I managed to create so much detail with no performance loss, so I over did it abit!
The animation also has a few glitches that needs fixing.
It looks much better from the distance since you don't see the messy details.
What is missing to give a true sense of water in the distance is the reflection of the sunlight.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:16 AM   #207
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Quote:
If I could I would manage the reloading procedure aswell!
That can be added when controlling fire from individual turrets. You can give the option of global or local fire control, also to keep shooting if the global is knocked out of service. You can mayeb have no radar there, but reloading. It makes sense as the local turrets likely could not get direct input from radar, but that was done via the main fire control.

One thing that seems to be clearly becoming a needed basic feature is a top view silhouette of the ship with dots indicating what fire control you are in, and that can also serve to highlight damage, etc. A base "ship status" indicator if you see what I mean.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:45 AM   #208
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That's something I will consider!
Yes, and the silhouette would also need to indicate which turret is connected to which director/computer/plotting room.
All of the three main director stations could control any of the three guns aswell as the secondaries.
So this schematic would need to be clear for the player.
There was also seperate night battle fire directors.

I cannot swear on this, but I believe there was a computer for each main gun, that's how I have modelled it now.
My question would be, could the turrets in local control use the computers still and communicate with the plotting rooms to get target calculations? If lets say the three main directors are knocked out.
The radar was also in a seperate compartment, so it might still be useful for range data, even for the local gunners.
Allthough many of the radar matresses/antennas was sitting on the directors, so if the director is hit, the radar is certainly history...


I am trying to remember which hit caused Scharnhorst to loose it's radar during the North Cape battle.
The Bismarcks radar broke by the shock from it's own guns IIRC.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:56 AM   #209
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I would just copy the HUD layout for the TDC from Silent Hunter 3.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:59 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julhelm View Post
I would just copy the HUD layout for the TDC from Silent Hunter 3.

Hi Julhelm!!
I hope all is well!
Yes, this idea has crossed my mind.
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