Best 'actual' snapshot & long-range shot techniques?

[Elphaba]

There is a great thread on here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=229792

which details authentic methods the U-Boot commanders used.

However, in both cases, it relied on getting well ahead of the convoy and lying in wait; the gold standard ideal.

However, what - if any - where the techniques used for shooting at long range or snapshots where you're basically unable due to circumstances to get any real data or recognition, but need to quickly fire and hit?

[derstosstrupp]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

There is a great thread on here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=229792

which details authentic methods the U-Boot commanders used.

However, in both cases, it relied on getting well ahead of the convoy and lying in wait; the gold standard ideal.

However, what - if any - where the techniques used for shooting at long range or snapshots where you're basically unable due to circumstances to get any real data or recognition, but need to quickly fire and hit?

Enter the Ausdampfverfahren! I outline that method at the end of the document but basically, you achieve a constant bearing to target (I.e. collision course) over a few minutes, note that bearing and own speed and his eyeballed AOB, and derive his speed:

Own speed x sin(bearing) / sin(AOB)

The bearing change method over a minute is another option, but you need a range at first bearing as well as the other info as above, in which case simply guesstimate the mast height (30-35 is a good avg I think). These methods are a check on the data gleaned from overhauling in my tutorial, but they can be used on a standalone basis in a pinch by all means.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

Enter the Ausdampfverfahren! I outline that method at the end of the document but basically, you achieve a constant bearing to target (I.e. collision course) over a few minutes, note that bearing and own speed and his eyeballed AOB, and derive his speed:

Own speed x sin(bearing) / sin(AOB)

The bearing change method over a minute is another option, but you need a range at first bearing as well as the other info as above, in which case simply guesstimate the mast height (30-35 is a good avg I think). These methods are a check on the data gleaned from overhauling in my tutorial, but they can be used on a standalone basis in a pinch by all means.

I think you misunderstood; I was already referring to those two in my question; I was asking about ADDITIONAL historically accurate techniques for when those two aren't applicable i.e. you can't get in front, or you're chasing from behind, or you just need to snap off two fish with no calculations - just some 'trick' or 'eye-balling'...

[derstosstrupp]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

I think you misunderstood; I was already referring to those two in my question; I was asking about ADDITIONAL historically accurate techniques for when those two aren't applicable i.e. you can't get in front, or you're chasing from behind, or you just need to snap off two fish with no calculations - just some 'trick' or 'eye-balling'...

Ausdampfverfahren works regardless of whether in front or not- you only need to achieve a constant bearing to calc the speed variable. Seaman’s eye is the only other way I am aware of beyond these. This was done very much, accurately and at crazy ranges - the torpedo firing reports at uboatarchive.net show Teddy Suhren as 1WO firing from the UZO from 4000 m and hitting - in the part of the report asking for how the shooting data was obtained- “by estimation”(!!!!). I need to practice.....

[bstanko6]

Long range shots were never permitted according to the uboat commanders handbuch. Very frowned upon.

It was not until late war when the acoustic and pattern running torpedoes were brought into the war that a uboat could take long range shots.

[derstosstrupp]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

Long range shots were never permitted according to the uboat commanders handbuch. Very frowned upon.

It was not until late war when the acoustic and pattern running torpedoes were brought into the war that a uboat could take long range shots.

The crazy ranges were rare but the my point was that pure estimation was used very frequently. A lot of the longer range firing reports are probably boats shooting outside of the escort screen later in the war.