Convoy Discussion

[Catfish]

@ drowssapma: Very sorry for you loss.. my condolences.
Regarding your brother's boss things are different here (Germany), you usually get one or two days of extra holidays at least for organising, and often more if you talk with the boss.

Regarding convoys, it depends on the time in the war, meaning experience of escorts, radar development, better sonar and so on.
(Be aware that regardless which tactics there is no current sim (except Wolfpack maybe) that models visibility and detection, or the lack of it, right. The modders have done tons of work on SH3, 4 and 5, but there are some things that cannot be corrected w/o having access to the source code, and even then...
There sure is a bit of randomness and "luck" involved, but much less than in reality. Say if a virtual sonar detects a dived virtual U-boat, and it does this with a probability of say 30 percent at a given situation. But this probability number is applied again and again, not once, so after a short time it WILL detect, and it will not "forget" this position. Same for optical visibility and radar.
In the early SH3, when you switched to outside view, you could see those depth charges being thrown exacly at your current position already in 1940, only chance to get rid of them was to dive deep, and run silent, and long)

Ok provided you remain undetected there are the two tactics - surfaced or dived.

Surfaced:
At daylight the only chance is against single or few unescorted merchants early in the war, so they have no guns.

At night you can
1. run ahead, then slow down to very slow (smaller wake), and then let the convoy come up and surround you, you have to be aware of DD, DE and corvettes, of course. If they zig or zag at the wrong time you will either have to reposition, or they present their broadside for a side attack.
You can also get ahead surfaced, dive, and let yourself be surrounded by the convoy, to then surface and pick your targets. But being ahead of the convoy's course means that there will be at least one "wiper" ahead with active sonar, that may detect you – so only silent running, do not extend the periscope, hope you get not detected by sonar.
In reality a boat at perisope depth was almost undetectable even by active sonar, but once more not in all those SH versions.

2. Or get in the convoy straight from a rear position at full speed.

Running inside parallel to the convoy's course, if you are good at the TDC a 90 degree shoot left or right is no problem for torpedoes provided you have some 500 meters distance or more to your targets. If you are closer, choose a smaller angel heading somewhat toward the target, the torpedo needs time for the curve.
If you can identify a corvette and it detected you, you can outrun it surfaced with more than 18 knots, which was frequently done in the early war. Most of the escorts did not have radar until 1943 or '44, but do not depend on it in the sim..
Also reports how a corvette almost rammed a surfacd boat at night without seeing it, but again, not in the Silent Hunter franchise.

3. The sideway attack you mentioned is the best one, but you have to go in at a speed not to be seen by the enemy. A fast attack to go in and out asap, and only dive in an emergency is usually the way to go. With more escorts you have to keep the wake down, so flank speed is sometimes not the best idea, but it always depends.
I do not know whether the moon being behind or ahead of you, or no moon, is being simulated properly, or at all.
Going in surfaced and shooting the deck gun is only possible in the early war, with merchants having no guns, and few or no escorts.


For a submerged attack you either dive close to the convoy, or earlier and let yourself overtaken by it. Again, if it zig-zags at the wrong moment your plan is toast.
Only use the periscope for very short times due to the mentioned 30 percent detection.

Picking out the big ones is of course the right thing, if there is only one escort or a carrier you might deviate from the usual tactics.
Also, while this is a kind of cheat, use impact ignitors since the magnetic ones often malfunction in the sim as they did in reality, early in the war. Gaming the game is of course not much fun, but ..

Use electric torpedoes for shallow runs so the bubbles will not be detected, also you can time your attack with using slower and faster torpedoes, for closer or more distant targets. You can be sure the convoy will change course the second the first impact happens, so try to make them hit in a short time interval.

Well one could write hundreds of pages, but you soon get the feeling for it..
Good luck

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Catfish

@ drowssapma: Very sorry for you loss.. my condolences.
Regarding your brother's boss things are different here (Germany), you usually get one or two days of extra holidays at least for organising, and often more if you talk with the boss.

Regarding convoys, it depends on the time in the war, meaning experience of escorts, radar development, better sonar and so on.
(Be aware that regardless which tactics there is no current sim (except Wolfpack maybe) that models visibility and detection, or the lack of it, right. The modders have done tons of work on SH3, 4 and 5, but there are some things that cannot be corrected w/o having access to the source code, and even then...
There sure is a bit of randomness and "luck" involved, but much less than in reality. Say if a virtual sonar detects a dived virtual U-boat, and it does this with a probability of say 30 percent at a given situation. But this probability number is applied again and again, not once, so after a short time it WILL detect, and it will not "forget" this position. Same for optical visibility and radar.
In the early SH3, when you switched to outside view, you could see those depth charges being thrown exacly at your current position already in 1940, only chance to get rid of them was to dive deep, and run silent, and long)

Ok provided you remain undetected there are the two tactics - surfaced or dived.

Surfaced:
At daylight the only chance is against single or few unescorted merchants early in the war, so they have no guns.

At night you can
1. run ahead, then slow down to very slow (smaller wake), and then let the convoy come up and surround you, you have to be aware of DD, DE and corvettes, of course. If they zig or zag at the wrong time you will either have to reposition, or they present their broadside for a side attack.
You can also get ahead surfaced, dive, and let yourself be surrounded by the convoy, to then surface and pick your targets. But being ahead of the convoy's course means that there will be at least one "wiper" ahead with active sonar, that may detect you – so only silent running, do not extend the periscope, hope you get not detected by sonar.
In reality a boat at perisope depth was almost undetectable even by active sonar, but once more not in all those SH versions.

2. Or get in the convoy straight from a rear position at full speed.

Running inside parallel to the convoy's course, if you are good at the TDC a 90 degree shoot left or right is no problem for torpedoes provided you have some 500 meters distance or more to your targets. If you are closer, choose a smaller angel heading somewhat toward the target, the torpedo needs time for the curve.
If you can identify a corvette and it detected you, you can outrun it surfaced with more than 18 knots, which was frequently done in the early war. Most of the escorts did not have radar until 1943 or '44, but do not depend on it in the sim..
Also reports how a corvette almost rammed a surfacd boat at night without seeing it, but again, not in the Silent Hunter franchise.

3. The sideway attack you mentioned is the best one, but you have to go in at a speed not to be seen by the enemy. A fast attack to go in and out asap, and only dive in an emergency is usually the way to go. With more escorts you have to keep the wake down, so flank speed is sometimes not the best idea, but it always depends.
I do not know whether the moon being behind or ahead of you, or no moon, is being simulated properly, or at all.
Going in surfaced and shooting the deck gun is only possible in the early war, with merchants having no guns, and few or no escorts.


For a submerged attack you either dive close to the convoy, or earlier and let yourself overtaken by it. Again, if it zig-zags at the wrong moment your plan is toast.
Only use the periscope for very short times due to the mentioned 30 percent detection.

Picking out the big ones is of course the right thing, if there is only one escort or a carrier you might deviate from the usual tactics.
Also, while this is a kind of cheat, use impact ignitors since the magnetic ones often malfunction in the sim as they did in reality, early in the war. Gaming the game is of course not much fun, but ..

Use electric torpedoes for shallow runs so the bubbles will not be detected, also you can time your attack with using slower and faster torpedoes, for closer or more distant targets. You can be sure the convoy will change course the second the first impact happens, so try to make them hit in a short time interval.

Well one could write hundreds of pages, but you soon get the feeling for it..
Good luck

Moonlight affects are not modeled in SH3.

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Moonlight affects are not modeled in SH3.

Yes. I still operate as though they are, just for "realism" reasons ...