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Old 10-11-2019, 10:26 AM   #31
p7p8
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Depth in editor is always in feets.
Changing course/depth/speed by script should work.
AI could change it when engaging so it's important to make AI sub autonomous lowes as possible. You can do it by:

- selecting ROE = peace for Akula side (better is to make Akula neutral
- selecting "transit" tactic

Btw im not sure but active pinging could be readed as assumed hostile action. In RA AI submarines usually makes counter pings and attack - so make sure ROE = peace
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:07 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p7p8 View Post
Depth in editor is always in feets.
Changing course/depth/speed by script should work.
AI could change it when engaging so it's important to make AI sub autonomous lowes as possible. You can do it by:

- selecting ROE = peace for Akula side (better is to make Akula neutral
- selecting "transit" tactic

Btw im not sure but active pinging could be readed as assumed hostile action. In RA AI submarines usually makes counter pings and attack - so make sure ROE = peace
I am not sure AI would counter ping in 1.48 any more. I know it would in v1.47. I never heard any counter ping in any of the missions I played so far. Anyways, back to the mission. ROE is set to peace and Akula never attacked. But Akula's tactic was set to random box. Would that affect anything?
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Old 10-11-2019, 12:35 PM   #33
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I think before making any scenario you should to read SCS-DW_Mission EditorManual

Also good help is to check simple missions of other designers. Its because you sometimes ask for trivial things.
My scenarios are mostly for MP and are too complex for learning.

Check this awesome site:
SubGuru

Backing to question:
from my experience all tactics with search pattern are "aggresive". Also "barrier" tactic could give more autonomy to AI platforms.

"Transit search" tactic is less aggresive - AI works more carefully and doesn't engaging 5 seconds after enemy detection

For me "transit" is best tactic to keep AI movement quite stable. Warships are passive but still can respond to attack and defend themself.
it allows to make AI ship route in narrow straits or between small islands. (More aggresive tactics often ends running ship aground)


P.S. In RA 1.48 AI submarines are able to ping - i heard it sometimes.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:59 AM   #34
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I got 4 missions ready. How do I share my google drive with you?
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Old 10-12-2019, 05:50 PM   #35
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Really?

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Old 10-12-2019, 08:41 PM   #36
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@p7p8, come on. Stop teasing me. Tell me how to share google drive with you? I desperately need expert opinion on my missions. I am sure they need further perfection.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:42 AM   #37
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Use any of dozens hosting file services - its simple.
You can also copy paste your mission here as text because missions (without password) are simple text files

But... finding this video took me 5 seconds

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Old 10-13-2019, 04:10 PM   #38
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https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...uO?usp=sharing

Alrite. Let me know how you like these missions. Just some quick notes:

1. CT05: there is a bug with Chinese YJ-12 ASM. The missiles get launched then they will fall back into the water. Also some other weird AI behaviors:
a. F/A-18 will not engage enemy missiles
b. Airplanes' countermeasures are too powerful. I had 5-6 planes dogfighting each other for good 20 minutes, no one get shot down cuz all missiles got destroyed by CMs

2. CT01-CT03, missions may be too long cuz objectives are far from each other. But let me know what you think. I can move them closer if that's the case.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:45 PM   #39
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Missions downloaded - thank you

Im not familiar with Chinese warships so i will check it later

For engaging missiles F/A-18 should have AAW weapon. In earlier version i used pair of F-16 for intercepting missiles and they worked fine. But later i removed fighters because AI fighters makes scenarios less stable - its big problem in MP sessions. I recommend you, do not use too many aircrafts in scenarios.

Before checking missions in editor i will try to play them

Thx again for uploading missions for test.

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Old 10-13-2019, 09:45 PM   #40
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@p7p8, yeah all Chinese ship launched anti-ship missiles are bugged out. They immediately fall into water after launch. You can test it with my CT05 mission which portraits a big air and sea battle between China and U.S. I have the following suggestion for the next version of RA mod:

1. Tone down the effectiveness of aircraft's counter measures. It's so powerful that literally it takes 10-15 missiles to shoot one down.

2. Increase the effectiveness of CIWS (Phalanx, goal keeper and AK series on Russian ships) against anti-ship missiles. Right now, its only practice use is to shoot terrorist's rubber boats.

3. Need buff up SM-2 missiles. Not sure whether it is AI or something else. Ships tend to hold fire until enemies are very close then fire. I know they did something a while ago to limit the range SM-2s can be used. The missile is the slowest of all ship-born SAMs in the game and not very accurate. So SM-2 carrying ships are truly at a disadvantage.

4. Someone needs check Chinese stuff. Ship skins are very inaccurate. I remember we used to have a very good Type 054A model in RA. Also, I remember there used to be J-10 as well. H-6 bombers' ASM range too short.

5. CVNG and SAG formation travels are buggy. Sometimes after an attack, the escort ships would wonder off in different directions or just stupidly circles around while leaving the main ship (e.g. carrier) go on its own. This may be the game problem, not sure if RA can fix it.

Just my 2 cents. You can easily see what I am talking about using my CT05 or "invade motherland" in the standard RA mod.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:59 AM   #41
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Ok, now lets begin form last mission:

It's big air battle while player is in the submarine and connot see it. For me its completly pointless because DW works far from perfect in simulation of air battles. Player task is to go fast and "to be aggresive" 50 nmi in front of CVN's 50 nmi but... reaching "Station Yankie" needs to pass 130 nmi!!!
And of course player shouldnt use time compression because above him have place great air battle - which greatly decreases game stability.
So if player will run with max tactical speed - 18 kts, reaching "Station Yankie" will take 7-8 hours!!! It will be very boring transit, because enemy submarines are spread out too far from each other and player haven't chance to detect all of them. Also they are too far form player to preventing them from attacking CVN's group before enemy will link CVN position.
Why there is no civilian traffic?

Mission "near" Syria waters where "near" is only 160 nmi from syrian shoreline.
And primary task is to monitor area with diameter of a circle = 60 nmi. Center of this circle is 115 nmi from Syrian border and there are 2 small patrol boats while wheather is really bad.
After this "monitoring you have to transit to "launching zone which is only 115 nmi from start position.

Once again this mission will be boring waiting for "something" with max time compression.

Mission 2 is about making speed & depth tests and again transit dozens of nautical miles without single interesting event: from 1 test circle to another
Btw why Spruance is not in test area from beginning?
Why you made maximum depth test trigger where depth needed to reaching is BELOW maximum depth 1690 ft instead maximum 1640ft?
Its funnu in this scenario is placed Akula with trogger "if akula attacked...". But this Akula is 130 nmi from closest TEST area!

Mission 1 with start in port. Player have to reach submerge area - 40 nmi from start position but first part of transit you cannot exceed 3 kts!
Of course this mission is very similar to Bill Nicholls first mission from RSR campaign. In my opinion its completly piontless to make "the same but for sub instead surf.

About campaing - all missions are in completly different part of world. What sense is to put them together to one campaign?
All of them are boring and far too long. Ranges from ships and for reaching patrol areas are huge - for few hours of playing without single interesting event in meantime

In my opinion this is because:
1. You haven't even basic experience in making missions. So instead malong dozens og boring missions to fill campaign, you should start with single player scenario - but with more interesting task than checking speed or running through dozens of "empty" nautical miles.

2. You should start making mission from selecting good area - not greater than 30x30 nmi or max 50 x 50 for biggest scenarios (but its not recommended for you)

3. "action" in mission should start between 30 - 60 minutes from beginning. It will give you 30 minutes for preparation like reaching good position or making good picture of situation.

4. Forget about big air battles in scenarios where player can take only submarine. It will increase stability and prevent from watching "how stupid it looks in DW" (in show truth mode)

5. Learn how to increase replayability - for example use random start position or random enemy etc.
Its possible to make all groups (like formations) with random positions or composition

6. Make missions where player don't need to transit dozens of miles for founding little patrol craft in the middle of ocean (in the middle of nowhere)
Finding small ship could be very interesting when toy start 20 nmi from it but its hard to identiffy correct ship. (many civilian ships have similar acoustic signature to patrol boats).

7. All civilian ships in your missions are too slow!
Don't use default speeds. Some time ago i found this sheet:



8. Check some other mission designers scenarios - you will lears about good distances, and some trigger/script solutions. I have learned this way. If you cannot resolve problems with thiggers - ask here. This is better than asking before trying to resolve problems

-------------------------

Afterall - i apreciate you did 4 missions but you have to learn how to make them interesting. In my opinion you should postpone campaign plans. Try to make 1 mission really challenging at first. For example you can rebuild mission with TLAM strike (but some missions of that kind were made). At first decrease mission area to 20 x 30 nmi, much closer to Syrian teritorial waters (12 nmi from land).
It is better place for OSA II class patrol boat. Make some random civilian traffic - for examle some fishing boats (first frequency 50 Hz) and 1-2 bigger ships.


Head up - im sure you can handle it. Im waiting for single player mission


edit:
So many typos - sorry
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:28 PM   #42
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It seems most of your complain is centered around I have too much real estate in my missions. That I do agree. It's an easy fix. As to others:

1. Air battle in CT05. I had no choice. Chinese subs mostly don't have ASM. Only Kilos do, but I can't have the area full of kilos. That's just too boring. In addition, Chinese surface ships' ASM are all fubar (all bugged out). So there is nothing to challenge the carrier task group except air attacks. But not sure if you have played thru the whole mission. The Ticon and Arleigh actually will take the airbase very quickly, so you won't have the aircraft issue later on. Maybe I'll have the player launch a tomahawk strike at the beginning of the mission as part of the goal.

2. The reason I put akula too far out is I am afraid when you kill the target in circle 3, the explosion would scare off akula. What is the max range that I do whatever I want without alerting enemy? 20nmi or 30nmi?

3. Syrian mission. The issue I have is that Syria doesn't have any decent ASW surface ships. So for that mission, I originally intended to use the air ASW as the main threat. So do you find air ASW counter attacks easy to deal with? Maybe I will increase the air threat a bit.

I will shrink the real estate and fix a few things and report back.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:44 AM   #43
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Quote:
1. Air battle in CT05. I had no choice. Chinese...
If Chinese works bad for your mission concept, you should change nation. Especially if all previous missions were on opposite side of globe.

Can you imagine some youtuber make "let's play" from your mission. For example in 40 minutes parts?
Part 1 - big air battle but player cannot see it so: nothing happenes (for him)
Part 2 - nothing happenes
Part 3 - nothing happenes
....
Part 8 - 50 Hz detected
Part 9 - Song killed
Part 10 - nothing happenes
....
part 22 - player arrived to his "patrol area" and.. no enemy there because all hostiles were killed in part 15 by AI but player didn't notice it
Part 23 - Mission END + watching replay

I think this "youtuber" will lost many subscribers

The same with TLAM strike mission. A difference is - in Part 7 player detect alone Osa II class patrol boat in the middle of nowhere
In my opinion this big determination (spending hours of game in transit) should be awarded by something more exciting than "tiny fish".

The truth is - these missions are boring to play, even if around something big happenes (like big air battle). You should make single missions more challenging. Even identification of correct target can be exciting. But in your biggest battle mission, player knows that everything he will find will be enemy and he haven't chance to defend CVN group.

Checking missions of other designers will teach you abut making correct distances. I can help you with triggers but please, don't make dozens of missions only because you said "i make campaign with 22 missions". Not always large numbers of missions means campaign is good.

Ohio trilogy - campaign with only 3 missions (and first is about transit) but this small campaign is very exciting to play. What you do in first mission, will have consequences in next missions. Playing this campaign was good experience and i recorded it 2 times - normal and aggressive playing.


In MP sessions best feeling is when some amount of time nothing happenes - game runs seemingly slow. But truth is - all players are preparing to big culmination. And suddenly all becomes "HOT" and very dangerous. This gives players constantly increased tension.
When you are in transit for 2 hours only increasing feeling is boring.
And after reaching destination your task is to go to max depth with max speed. Im sure most of players did it few times without any mission - just for fun.


So my advice. Please make mission with time limit 2-3 hours with some interesting events, with something challenging and dangerous for player. Dangerous would be not only strong opponent. It could be pressure for attacking correct target hiding between civilian ships. Or it could be tracking enemy battle group while you are waiting for order to attack and time for reciving "open fire" message is random.
There is so many ideas for good missions - barrier is only our imagination.
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