[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[LCQ_SH]

Hi,

I've been waiting for months this release.

I'm just wondering if the escort's sensors were diminished or will they improve with time?

I happened to be next to a task force mid 1942, got a CL and I was not even thrown a single depth charge.

I've got only one CTD, and it was for the new construction 1942. Tried it a few times. Is this normal?

Thanks a lot

[adrians69]

I'm sure you will get depth charged at some point. I sank a Shokaku carrier in a task force and I was hunted by destroyers for over an hour!

This is an awesome mod, the only issue I've had is that the stadimeter is unreliable as hell. Hopefully there will be a fix eventually.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

uh, henderson field opened for business about a week after the marines landed in early august 1942.
i believe the game establishes an airfield in september 1942.
so, it is entirely normal for torpedobait to see us air assets in december 1942.
as far as the aircraft crashing is concerned, i suspect that it has to do with the parameters defined for the aircraft/squadron. for example, if the aircraft has a defined air envelope of 500-1000 ft and is following a flight path that includes mountains that exceed that altitude, well....
unfortunately, i do not know where the squadron/aircraft definitions are hiding in SH4, otherwise i would look them up for you.

- I was seeing his date as the 12th of May, 1942... - The aircraft's CrewRating is influenced by the AirBase's rating, which in all locations in FotRSU is "Elite" so that the planes are "Elite". The main issue, I suspect, is the "Minimum Speed" setting of airplanes in the game. If you ever use the Mission Editor and insert an airplane, it makes it 90knots at 500m height. The height ~should~ not be an issue (though well could be), but the 90 knot speed definitely is, since it is below the "stall" speed of most of the airplanes, and borderline on the others. I am currently attempting testing in this regard, and have found other issues also that we're trying to define. With this 'new' discovery, there is no apparent issue seen in the game, ~unlesss~ I Save, Exit, re-enter and then Load that Save... so we do have our suspect surrounded, just not identified yet... I am trying to figure-out parameters to do testing of the AirBases, to see what they send out, when they send it out, and now if they'll fly over mountains, or attempt to go through them. It might all depend upon where your submarine is in relation to a land mass when the planes "spawn" into the game... btw: the airplanes for an AirBase are "defined" in the AirBases' Land folder, in the cfg file. The particular plane by date, along with the number of them. Also, there is the "default" 90 knots, and each plane has a "MaxSpeed", but with the 500 m height that is "default", I find no "MaxHeight" figure... so do they just fly at 500m except to attack?... that would not be good in a game with the topography of SH4... lol

Originally Posted by LCQ_SH

Hi,

I've been waiting for months this release.

I'm just wondering if the escort's sensors were diminished or will they improve with time?

I happened to be next to a task force mid 1942, got a CL and I was not even thrown a single depth charge.

I've got only one CTD, and it was for the new construction 1942. Tried it a few times. Is this normal?

Thanks a lot

The "New Construction" starts have been largely ignored for the last few releases and may well have issues. I'll try to look into them. They are very sensitive to time constraints, which we seem to change in every release. As to the escorts' responses, a lot of what you see throughout the game is very dependent upon the escort ship itself. Some platforms have no sonar gear onboard, so you would not get a response from them, unless you or your torpedo track was seen. However, when attacking a Task Force, you generally have fully-equipped DD that are guarding the group, and you should see a rather robust response, even if they are rather inept early in the war. As for differences in response between 1941 and 1945, those are not as pronounced as they were in some of the beta releases, but we do hope to get back to that with the next release, and then have add-in mods for a player to use for more-difficult settings if desired. We haven't gotten to that point yet.

Finished 9th patrol at Midway, June 1 '43. Gar received new cut-down sail, and upon leaving on new patrol, I took external view and see two deck guns fore and aft. The forward gun wasn't there when I came in and it does not have crew space configured, only the aft gun does!
Using SH4_Ultimate-v1.004A, Win 10. Wasn't sure if anyone else reported something like this.

[propbeanie]

Well, you apparently qualified for the new deck gun as well. Had you visited the crew area while still in-base in the Captain's Office? Did you happen to notice anything there? The "drawing" of the sub there is not accurate as to what you might actually have onboard, but you may have seen crewing slots for them on that page. You could use a text editor and go into your Save folder and try to do the "fix" we posted in the Support folder "ColetrainsAndOthersDGfix.pdf", and see if you have those "AdditionalRepository" listings... Maybe you'll be able to use both guns, though I doubt it, and the fore gun will just be an underwater drag and use more battery on you... (not really, the game doesn't 'model' that).

One thing I don't quite understand though, is you are in a Gar boat in June of 1943? You get a conn upgrade, but NOT a new boat, of which you would have a Gato and Balao available... - this somewhat worries me, as a modder... Had you previously turned down a new boat??

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Well, you apparently qualified for the new deck gun as well. Had you visited the crew area while still in-base in the Captain's Office? Did you happen to notice anything there? The "drawing" of the sub there is not accurate as to what you might actually have onboard, but you may have seen crewing slots for them on that page. You could use a text editor and go into your Save folder and try to do the "fix" we posted in the Support folder "ColetrainsAndOthersDGfix.pdf", and see if you have those "AdditionalRepository" listings... Maybe you'll be able to use both guns, though I doubt it, and the fore gun will just be an underwater drag and use more battery on you... (not really, the game doesn't 'model' that).

One thing I don't quite understand though, is you are in a Gar boat in June of 1943? You get a conn upgrade, but NOT a new boat, of which you would have a Gato and Balao available... - this somewhat worries me, as a modder... Had you previously turned down a new boat??

I did visit the crew area and there were only 4 slots, plus when switching view to the deck gun it only shows the aft gun. And, no I did not turn down any previous new boat offers. I believe I started this campaign in the Asiatic fleet with a Sargo, advanced to a Tambor(?), and then to a Gar after transferring to Midway.

[propbeanie]

Do you have your JSGME mod list by chance? You aren't anywhere near a gun-change time either, and really should have gotten a new boat instead of a sail... Also, when you went from the first version to this version, had you emptied your Save folder? Have you had a chance to look in your Save folder for those gun positions? If you have a way to zip up your Save folder and post it somewhere for me, or PM me and I'll give you an email address? Thanks.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

There really should be no US planes out of Henderson Field from Guadalcanal (Cactus), since the US did not land on the island until August. How close were you to Guadalcanal?... I wonder if one of the other airfields is doing that (Port Moresby??)? We used to have troubles with B-24s doing that in earlier releases. As for 1944, there should not be that many Japanese planes coming out of Truk... These are very important issues, due to the impact on gameplay, besides the inaccuracy in real life. What type of plane was that you ID'd off of Truk? Operation Hailstone was still a month away, so it is not a response to that.

1. We were within 1000 yards of the NW tip of Guadalcanal, waiting in the shallows for the IJN supply forces to show up;
2. The US planes definitely were coming from the direction of Henderson.
3. I didn't identify the type of Japanese planes out of Truk. When I spotted on close enough to identify "friend or foe" by it's icon's color I dove before I could see the type.

What is unusual besides the number is the way the apparent spawn point (on radar) kept following me. It's not just that they came into radar range - they spawned well within radar range. The ones that spawned within the lagoon would apparently circle a Japanese small freighter anchored next to the land mass once or twice before heading for that central port where I had attacked and sank an escort carrier, Naka, supply ship, and one other ship.

I know I am running on a clean install of v1.5, totally deleted the SH4 folder from Documents before starting this career, etc. so my installation is not a factor.

[propbeanie]

Well, we may have discovered what is going on, and it is a combination of items. The main one being the Stock game's handling of the AirBase assets (which includes carriers), and the planes that spawn from them. There is no way to "fix" this, other than either violating the Ubisoft license agreement, or doing a couple of text-edit tweaks and living with the results. In a nutshell, when a player locks on to a target while at periscope depth (or any other asset "sees" the target), the radioman in the back room somehow manages to send out a message of the enemy's location. This then runs through the AirStrike.cfg routines, and the AirBase will then spawn an airplane or two or three or two dozen. These planes then fly the shortest route to destination (usually), including flying ~through~ mountains and island terrain, if they happen to be higher than 500 meters, as KaleunMarco and I had supposed previously. They also use the "default" 90 knots speed, again, as previously supposed. This combination can ruin an "Elite" setting for the AirBase to impart to its generated planes, of course. In conjunction with this, as in a lot of things "Silent Hunter", the game will run-over a modders intentions with dates or limits set with numbers, in that the larger a target is, the more planes that will be sent, such that a DD warrants three airplanes, and as the targets increase in size, the more airplanes you will see. A submarine apparently will cause an AirBase to generate seven planes. I have no definitive proof of any of this, but recent observations in attempts at finding what is corrupting some players' Save data has led to this, and other recent eye-opening (for me) "findings". There are possible ways around some of this behavior, by having "specialized" AirBases, such as lurker_hlb3 did with RSRDC and OM, but for a different purpose. There are possibly other tweaks possible that we will experiment with in the next few days / weeks (dependent upon "tests" and findings). While there have been a few RGG in the Campaign layers that contribute to issues, this "Stock" game handling of the AirBases almost makes us want to dump them entirely... The worst part of it is that if your submarine happens to be within spawn range of an airplane that is flying at 500 meters through terrain that is higher than that figure, the planes spawn, but inside the terrain, and they therefore "crash"... the lot of them. The more planes, the more "crashes", and the more strain there is on the game's engine, and the higher the chance of data corruption as it can't handle what's going on around your submarine. Sort of like the run-a-way DD spawns of yesteryear, it brings the computer to its knees, and then a TKO. Not cool... This exact same behavior has now been observed in FotRSU, Stock and TMO... As a little side note for torpedobait - if the planes get close enough to "see" friend or foe, they are also close enough to see you, either as you are diving, or beneath the surface, especially if the seas are calm and you are above 120 foot depth... Also, you are restricted in speed, hence the "math" solution to figure where you will be an hour from now is much easier.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

As a little side note for torpedobait - if the planes get close enough to "see" friend or foe, they are also close enough to see you, either as you are diving, or beneath the surface, especially if the seas are calm and you are above 120 foot depth... Also, you are restricted in speed, hence the "math" solution to figure where you will be an hour from now is much easier.

Oh, I get that alright! My general approach is to dive immediately upon Radar contact. I go only to 100' and set speed to slow, knowing it is unlikely they saw me that far out (12-14Nm) or will fly close enough to spot me underwater. Have not been attacked once since adopting this approach last year. On the occasion mentioned above, I deliberately stayed on the surface off Truk to get an indicator as to friend or foe.

And they will do the math, so to ease the constant surface/dive/surface routine I simply stay at depth until nightfall. It does get a little stinky in the boat if I have to dive early in the day, but that's why they are called Pig Boats, isn't it?

Planes flying into mountains is not always dependent on a boat's distance from the mountain. I have seen the grayed out wreckage indicator of any number of crashed planes many miles from my boat. It's always been that way, so I suspect the base game and certainly not the mod. The spawning of so many planes, over and over again near that SW land mass at Truk is really unusual though, something I've not seen before. I sat in the same place for quite a while, tapping the TC key constantly, only to have it drop to "1" with each spawn. The number of planes spawned per cycle looked to be 5 to 7 or more. It was hard to tell because I was changing the TC. I'm hoping it was just a one time-one place thing. I had no business at Truk anyway - just got bored and wanted to see if I could sneak in and run up some tonnage. I can.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Do you have your JSGME mod list by chance? You aren't anywhere near a gun-change time either, and really should have gotten a new boat instead of a sail... Also, when you went from the first version to this version, had you emptied your Save folder? Have you had a chance to look in your Save folder for those gun positions? If you have a way to zip up your Save folder and post it somewhere for me, or PM me and I'll give you an email address? Thanks.

My JSGME Mod list;
[MODS]
100_FalloftheRisingSun_UltimateEdition_v1.004.a_EN =1
Easier_AI for FotRSU=2
FOTRSU Position Keeper Tweak=3
Manual Range TDC=4
Webster's Better Air Patrols=5
901_strategic_map_symbols=6
SH4_original_4k_light_blue=7
JayMyKey=8 this is my customized keyboard layout for my laptop

I always start new release (i.e., v1.004A) with a fresh Save folder and using MultiSH.exe.

Looked at ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc and crew slots are empty
e.g., [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1]
Hope this helps. Mean while I can continue to play-on with new patrol so far!

[propbeanie]

@ torpedobait: There are now air patrols full-time at Truk, as well as a couple of inside boat patrols. Watch your shears! As for the planes flying into the mountains, again, it is that 500m set height and 90knot set speed that does it. You would think that the game would be capable of taking care of airplanes, and having them change altitude for the terrain, but everything is "ocean" in the game... until it comes time to calculate a "collision"... lol

@ jldjs: I'm not sure of the lineage of some of your mods. I recognize #2, which is most likely no longer necessary, and might be causing issues. #5 makes the air strikes less frequent, but more accurate, but should not be an issue in FotRSU. The others between are the ones I am not familiar with. As for the fore gun position, as per wolfeinsamer, changing those "CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1" to read "CrewMemberSlot 1" instead, might allow you to add crew members to the gun. But you have to have the correct Save and the correct gun... You can certainly go on patrol with it as-is, as attempt to fix it later. I'm not sure though of your Save folder's data integrity. Going on patrol and Saving at some point would tell you though...

[LCQ_SH]

I dunno if this happens to me only, but I started my career early 1942. I have found so far two task forces and one medium size convoy. The problem with these is that they are always going at 2-3 knots because they are always trying to avoid colission between each others.

DDs moving everywhere making the others. So lets say, a task force composed of a few BB, CA, and a bunch of DDs, cannot mantain a steady course and speed for more than 3 minutes.

Is this normal?

An improved version of Input Target Distance on TBT +454_EasyAOB_FotRSU.

454_EasyAOB_FotRSU + Manual Range and Mast Height

A big thank you to jldjs for putting up his mod list.

Here are some Munchausen's notes on Manual Range and Mast Height Dial Fix.

"I tried the mod and found that the index marker was stuck in one position on the mast height dial. So I fiddled with the settings in both sections (Dial58/59) without much luck until I finally decided to see what happens if I enabled both. Turns out it can be done."

The mod is here 454_EasyAOB_FotRSU + Manual Range and Mast Height

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=5582

Regards to all at Subsim.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by LCQ_SH

I dunno if this happens to me only, but I started my career early 1942. I have found so far two task forces and one medium size convoy. The problem with these is that they are always going at 2-3 knots because they are always trying to avoid colission between each others.

DDs moving everywhere making the others. So lets say, a task force composed of a few BB, CA, and a bunch of DDs, cannot mantain a steady course and speed for more than 3 minutes.

Is this normal?

no, not normal. the main ships should all be moving along at a set speed, say 10-12 knots.

I have seen that type of behaviour in a few instances:

1. you have been spotted and/or torpedoed a ship. That can throw the TF in confusion for a short time.

2. issue with the campaign/mission scripting.

3. could also be a mod causing that.