Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[h.sie]

@Hitman, SSB: I cannot reproduce your problem. The former patch (V15G2) supported 5 different versions of sh3.exe, and the current Alpha-Test Mod supports the same 5 versions. I tested it with all 5 versions, all could be patched.

Only explaination: Wou have the 4GB patch applied. Try to remove the 4GB patch. If that doesn't work, please send me your sh3.exe and I'll try to locate the problem.

[h.sie]

@rik007: Thanks for your patience. Some details:

If you are shadowing a convoy, the BDU-AI is in HOLD_CONTACT state. Then, you receive orders to continue shadowing.

If you get a message like "Individual attack recommended", then the BDU-AI is in ATTACK_ALONE state.

I programmed the BDU-AI so that it cannot directly go from HOLD_CONTACT into ATTACK_ALONE state.

I'm 100% sure that something important happened between HOLD_CONTACT and ATTACK_ALONE state (maybe wolfpack sunk or out of fuel? or BDU ordered wolfpack attack?) but the corresponding message has been lost.

Messages get lost, if you send a new contact report before you got a reply to a previous contact report.

Contact reports are hourly, but response time of BDU is sometimes longer than 1 hour -> message lost.

I could maybe fix that, but my idea was to firstly leave it as it is, because I hoped this could model reality: Messages got lost and the Kaleun was irritated and helpless. I'm not cynical when I say that your irritation is part of the reality.....

If the problem with lost messages gets too large, I'll try to fix it by reducing the response time to values below 1 hour.

Glad you are still trying. There is a lot of randomness, thus, every mission will be different.

[Stiebler]

@H.sie, LGN1:

Feedback - wolf-packs mod.

Instead of using the single mission file, I added the whole pack to NYGM and played it in late 1942 in campaign mode.

I had no difficulty patching my Starforce-free SH3.exe with the patch-kit. Of course, the use of files derived from GWX caused a certain amount of unfamiliarity with my NYGM set-up, but nothing serious. I needed a short learning curve to understand how to send contact signals, but again that all functioned correctly once I had mastered the system.

I have made a total of four attacks on convoys in two patrols. All have responded correctly - that is, as programmed - but there are a number of minor difficulties with operation.

1. Every time that I signalled 'contact report' in daylight, in a patrol west of Ireland, I was attacked by either land or carrier-based aircraft. I'm not sure what can be done about that - except to attack convoys in the air-gap in mid-Atlantic, as in real life!

2. Contact reports have to be sent every one hour, but it is impossible to send a contact report in less than one hour after the previous. (This should be made clear in notes/instructions).

3. It is very hard to maintain contact on a convoy in perfect visibility, without being detected by the convoy escort. After that it is necessary to dive quickly, and stay dived for several hours, and I believe the delay before re-signalling causes the wolf-pack to lose contact.

4. The 'Contact Convoy' button is rather erratic in use. I noticed exactly the same problem when creating my 'Smoke-on-the-horizon' mod, and it is evident that your Wolfpack mod suffers from the same problems:
a) At least two ships must be in sight for the button to function.
b) In light fog or at night, you may need to see 6-10 ships before the button functions.
The result is that one presses the 'Convoy Contact' button about every hour, and it says 'Message Sent', but frequently the message is not sent. It is necessary to send the messages from the Radio Messages screen (press 'M' to get it), in order to confirm that the message was sent.

However, there is no doubt that the functionality is working correctly, although I have yet to see any sign of an attack by your Type VIIF AI U-boats.

On one occasion, I saw instead an attack by the NYGM/SSB/Sergbuto VIIA AI U-boats. I was interested to see whether this caused any kind of conflict, since the Wolfpacks mod assumes that it is always the player U-boat that calls in the AI U-boats, while the old NYGM system assumes that it is the AI U-boats that attack before the player arrives. However, since the VIIF boats failed to arrive, the answer to this conflict remains unknown to me.

At this time, no difficulty with reloads of saved games, after convoy attacks - but (to say it again) I have seen no VIIF boats present to cause potential problems.

These are very encouraging results, but for *test* purposes perhaps the probability of attack by VIIF boats should be increased.

These preliminary results released in order to encourage others: I see above that some other potential users have had difficulties with the mod.

Stiebler.

[Robin40]

No possibility to apply hsie Options Selector?

[h.sie]

OptionsSelector not necessary for alpha testing

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by h.sie

OptionsSelector not necessary for alpha testing

ah...OK

[LGN1]

Hi Stiebler,

thanks for your reply! Just a few quick comments:

Originally Posted by Stiebler

@H.sie, LGN1:

1. Every time that I signalled 'contact report' in daylight, in a patrol west of Ireland, I was attacked by either land or carrier-based aircraft. I'm not sure what can be done about that - except to attack convoys in the air-gap in mid-Atlantic, as in real life!

H.sie and I discussed this problem some time ago. Like what you say, I think it is realistic and not a real problem. Shadowing a convoy with aircover should be very hard. This feature should give the air-gap in SH3 much more importance (as it had in real-life).

Originally Posted by Stiebler

3. It is very hard to maintain contact on a convoy in perfect visibility, without being detected by the convoy escort. After that it is necessary to dive quickly, and stay dived for several hours, and I believe the delay before re-signalling causes the wolf-pack to lose contact.

The probability for the wolfpack to assemble quickly drops off with increasing time intervals between the messages. Maybe this requires a small parameter adjustment

Originally Posted by Stiebler

4. The 'Contact Convoy' button is rather erratic in use. I noticed exactly the same problem when creating my 'Smoke-on-the-horizon' mod, and it is evident that your Wolfpack mod suffers from the same problems:
a) At least two ships must be in sight for the button to function.
b) In light fog or at night, you may need to see 6-10 ships before the button functions.
The result is that one presses the 'Convoy Contact' button about every hour, and it says 'Message Sent', but frequently the message is not sent. It is necessary to send the messages from the Radio Messages screen (press 'M' to get it), in order to confirm that the message was sent.

I strongly recommend to send the contact report only via the Radio Message Screen ('M'). I think this should be mentioned in the documentation later.

The required visual detection of a few ships is quite problematic. I've discussed that already with h.sie in the context of late-war attacks when many escorts have radar and you hardly get close to the convoy (mostly you shadow via hydrophone and radar warning receivers). Unfortunately, this problem seems to be quite difficult to solve.

Cheers, LGN1

[h.sie]

@Stiebler: Thanks very much for your detailed report.

If BDU ordered you to shadow a convoy, that indicates that you added the whole pack correctly into your .scr campaign file.

Regarding the difficulties you mentioned:

1) If I'm informed correctly, sending contact reports and homing signals was risky near the coast where aircraft density is high. So I think (hope) the behavoiur isn't that unrealistic. I would answer the same: attack convoys in the air-gap in mid-Atlantic, as in real life!

2) For certain reasons I could not reduce the time between contact reports to a value lower than 55 minutes. But you are right: A note about that will go into the documentation.

3) I have no solution for this problem. The environment / sensor combination I used for testing allowed me to shadow a convoy at daylight without being detected (but I had to be very careful). By the way: Shouldn't an Uboat watchcrew see an escort much earlier than the escorts watchcrew sees the Uboat (because the difference in ship volume/surface?)

4) I always used the Press 'M' - method to send contact reports, and for a long time I didn't know about the other alternative. Thus, I didn't mention it. But this point will also go into the documentation.

X) If BDU orders wolfpack attack and you entered the right convoy course (coarse estimation is sufficient) then there should be a convoy battle in the next time. Try to set TC to 16 or 32 and wait ....... or dive and listen, sometimes your sonar man reports the AI-Subs ....

Good idea. I also thought about to enlarge the probability of an convoy attack of the VIIF boats for testing purposes.....

I made save/reload tests with VIIF DURING A CONVOY BATTLE with burning ships. No problems. Never had any problems with CTD and stability. Funny that so many people have problems.

Thanks again, J.
H.Sie

[h.sie]

40 downloads in 1 day. nobody saw a convoy battle?

[makman94]

Today is the 'zero' day for sh3 - sh4 - sh5 !

H.Sie and all your 'company' that involved in this ..... the sh community is just celebrating and starts a new chapter at silent hunter series ...exactly today ...thanks to all of you !

i tested your mission and everything i saw is very promising and convising !! VERY VERY GOOD JOB ! in fact ...i don't know if there are words to congratulate all of you...
you are writting the gold history for sh series ! realy...hacking the executables is making 'miracles' ...eh ?


my set up for the mission :

1) i used the MEP 20km (with my visual sensors) --i don't know if there is anyone that can play seriously at 'smaller' envs . a ship with a small mast=25m can be seen by a u-boat observer at about 26km distance . if we could ...we need a even much 'bigger' than 20km environment . we need one up to about 32 - 33 km (but experts here saying that is impossible to create a bigger than 20km env) ,so my point is that you all have to 'forget' the 16km environments

2) i removed from the mission the destroyers for just shadowing easily the convoy and test the wolfpack mission

everything works very nice and i find very brilliant the idea to 'inform' the bdu for convoy's course and speed through tdc's dials !! very brilliant !!

ps: i ,aslo , didn't like the fact that i can't send contact report any time i want . why not to send report anytime ? more 'updates'-reports to bdu...the better or...no ??

and the pics of proof : Wolfpacks are REAL in sh3 !! (H.Sie: was only one the u-boat that attacked---WITH TORPS !!!! --- the convoy or more than one ? i was very far from the 'action' when took place)

message from bdu ...setting the wolfpack on route :



the time of the attack (i turned the boat to move in but i was very far) :



view of wolfpack attack from my bridge :



the spotted wolfpack u-boat while attacking :



================

[rik007]

Makman, Did the Wolfpack u-boat actually hit something?

Sending contacts hourly seems to be pointless for me. If the Convoy is actually maintaining course and speed unchanged for 24 hours. It should be enough to report every 24 hours of a position of the convoy.

Exclusions to report BDU about changes of convoy course or speed should be done only if that is actually necessary. (otherwise 1 report every 24 hour should be enough) The u-boat commander shouldn't be risking of losing stealth every hour by surfacing, while he shadows a convoy.

About messages getting lost thing ? Ahm.. now how exactly are they getting lost if the message IS actually sent ? If the u-boats would have used post pigeons to carry the messages, this loss would be self explanatory in more ways, rather that radio wave is lost ?

If I was a u-boat commander in RL I wouldn't want to stay in eternal visual contact with the convoy and sending contact every hour, thus increasing the chance that something can go unplanned. It's not always the aircraft that brings great threat to a u-boat, but also destroyers/escorts. I'm not sure wether "Huff Duff antennas" (radio direction finders ) work in GWX but as you know, destroyers also had fair chances to detect a u-boat that is sending reports with info about convoy..
I would be shadowing convoy in periscope view following it by hydrophones, surfacing only to catch up with the convoy to visual range say every 6 hours, to check if the course and speed is the same. I would also do this at night more often than in clear daylight..

[h.sie]

@makman: Glad that we had at least one success!! Great. Please be not that optimistic. There is still some work to do. It is not possible to reduce the time between contact reports to a value below 55minutes because of certain reasons.

@rik: Look at the NavMap makman posted. You see a wreck that has been sunk. Look at the picture through the binocular. There you see the torpedo impact explosion.

@PapaKilo: According to the UboatCommender's Handbook - which we took as reference- the Contact holder had to send contact reports / homing signals every hour (somtimes even every 30 minutes). If there is high density of enemy aircraft, you can decide NOT to send these signals, but then the chance rises that the wolfpack takes a wrong route and cannot be in operation area in time.

Do you have any historical information that the rule of hourly homing signals was not practiced?

Indeed, we have to discuss about that "lost messages" problem. If too many (important) messages get lost, I'll try to fix that.

Originally Posted by h.sie

@PapaKilo: According to the UboatCommender's Handbook - which we took as reference- the Contact holder had to send contact reports / homing signals every hour (somtimes even every 30 minutes). If there is high density of enemy aircraft, you can decide NOT to send these signals, but then the chance rises that the wolfpack takes a wrong route and cannot be in operation area in time.

It must be related due to often convoy zig zag curse that probably happened in RL.

In GWX we have more stable convoy routes I guess

[h.sie]

@PapaKoilo: I have GWX / NYGM hybrid and have a lot of zig Zag because I use LGN1's zigzag mod.