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Old 04-01-2020, 10:45 PM   #1
tiger_pan
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Default Noob Question About Torpedo Angles

I'm going through the Sub School and trying to learn how to target enemy ships properly in manual mode. The problem is that I can't figure out the torpedo angles. If I go to the nav map is shows me a 360 protractor that gives a perfect angle off the port and stern, so I make proper adjustments, but then when I send those angles to the the nerds in my ship I get wildly different results every time I fire a torpedo.



Is there a tutorial besides the top youtube videos (that gloss over the entire concept), that explains how to calculate angles properly? I never finished geometry in high school so I need a manual that is very specific. Obviously I can just set the torpedo to magnetic impact but that defeats the purpose. Thanks in advance
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:57 PM   #2
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Default Welcome aboard!

tiger_pan!
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Old 04-02-2020, 12:43 PM   #3
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Welcome aboard!!

If your goal is to learn the full-monty manual targeting mode, this won't be of use but if your main interest is in sinking ships using manual vs automatic targeting, I join a number of Kaleuns using the "O'Kane method" that greatly simplifies torpedo angle calculations. It has become my favorite manual targeting method, and I reckon if it was good enough for Dick O'Kane, it's certainly acceptable to me.

Search this forum and YouTube for more information.
Good hunting!!
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:33 AM   #4
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Angle on the bow is from the target ship's viewpoint, not your boat, which is called the track angle. Just mentioning it in case you are using the track angle instead of AoB when you input the data to the TDC.

I use manual targeting and have since SH3 came out. In the SH3 days I used a slightly different method, but over the years I have scrabbled together my own way of firing the torpedoes. It does rely on the unfailing accuracy of the Map Contact Updates setting, and would be impossible to do at 100% difficulty settings. It involves no math, no stadimeter, no guesswork or reliance on accurate skipper observations.

All you need is MCU on, a nomograph, a chronometer, a compass (optional, ruler can be used instead), a pencil and a ruler. It relies on precise positioning, which in my view is the most crucial component of accurate torpedo warshots.


I call the method SWiFT, for Steady Wire Firing Technique. It isn't realistic, but it's easily repeatable and very accurate. I happen to be commanding a boat again after several years away from sub sims and am detailing the career in a AAR on SimHQ. In the first patrol report I outline how I go about firing the torpedoes if you're interested in this method. Mod is Operation Monsun in command of a VIIB. The method translates well to US boats, I use it for those as well.

This is a link straight to the relevant post. It's a long post as I try to cover a number of topics for an audience who are not hardened sub vets, but you'll get the attack method before too long



The War Patrols of U-46


I realize it isn't a realistic portrayal of how torpedoes were fired in the war, but it works very well, and frankly that's good enough for me. Without MCU on, it would not be possible in the first place, and the unfailing accuracy of MCU leads to accurate solutions for my shots in most cases, and certainly the ones where I can dictate events and choose my firing position and point of impact in advance. As the AAR shows, high-speed contacts like task forces don't always allow proper positioning, and some guess work gets introduced at times. But that's the nature of the business isn't it? The tracking party who ran the plot in wartime submarines were not immune to error of course. MCU is. This removes much of the uncertainty and error inherent in human controlled plots, making it all much easier than it should be. I understand this so no need to preach about the evils of MCU on.
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Last edited by Threadfin; 04-04-2020 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:12 PM   #5
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Thanks @jimmbbo and @Threadfin both of your replies have been helpful. I was calculating the angle from my subs viewpoint instead of the ships so thats a big relief to know why it worked more frequently when I tried everything backwards!!
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_pan View Post
Thanks @jimmbbo and @Threadfin both of your replies have been helpful. I was calculating the angle from my subs viewpoint instead of the ships so thats a big relief to know why it worked more frequently when I tried everything backwards!!

For what it is worth tiger pan, I had a giant brain cramp and couldn't remember which viewpoint to calculate AoB via either.... and I'm supposed to know better.


Welcome to Subsim.


To all others, commence firing with your rotten tomatoes. I can take it! My CRS kicked in for a moment.
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Old 04-05-2020, 01:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann View Post
For what it is worth tiger pan, I had a giant brain cramp and couldn't remember which viewpoint to calculate AoB via either.... and I'm supposed to know better.


Welcome to Subsim.


To all others, commence firing with your rotten tomatoes. I can take it! My CRS kicked in for a moment.
Which interception method do you prefer to use Kpt_lehmann?
do you use activated map contacts?
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Old 04-05-2020, 02:00 AM   #8
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there are several good tutorials on manual targeting stickied on the forum, for example:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...01&postcount=1

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=111998


as the old saying goes, "garbage in, garbage out", your solution is only as good as the data you use. The basics are the same whether in sh 3-4-5, you need to figure out the Target's range, course and speed. Once that is done, it is just a matter of plugging it in. SH4 greatly simplifies your task since you have the Target Data Computer which works in game pretty much as it did in RL and will compute the firing solution for you.

One advantage with the TDC is that once you input the target's course in the AOB dial, the TDC will compute the correct AOB. When you rotate the AOB dial on the right of the screen, it will rotate the one on the left of the screen for the target.

For example, in the sub school, the Mogami Heavy cruiser is on a 90 east course, at speed of 9 knots. Use map updates on to double check.

This is from SH3, but discusses the basics:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...&postcount=461

Once you get use to the TDC, there is really no limit to what you can do with it. For example, radar only night attack:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...&postcount=479
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