Russia’s Vladimir Putin just got one step closer to being "president" for life - Page 4

Platapus · 07-03-20, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

.married men live longer..

It just seems longer.

ikalugin · 07-04-20, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Vote that could extend Putin's rule culminates as Russians get cash payments

You just can't make some things up

Conflating the elections with the COVID-19/SARS-2 related support payments, a nice tactic. If they do make them they are bribing the voters if they don't they are abandoning our citizens. Great stuff. The young families with kids were targeted with support payements by the way because they are both most economically vulnerable and are least likely to hoard/save the money.

As to the topic - the statistical analasys does show some anomalies, if we account for them under the normalised hypothesis we are looking at around 42 percent turnout and 65 percent of people voting for the question in the elections.

vienna · 07-04-20, 04:52 AM

Sometimes its more a question of timing: the Covid payments may have been timed to have an effect on voter perception; too early and the voter may forget about the 'largess' by election day; too close to election day and it seems to bee too apparent of a 'bribe/inducement'; we have had similar situations here in the US; during the Regan years, there were certain short-term investment programs that were set up to mature and payoff just before the midterm elections; the timing was very clever since it was set in motion long enough (about a year before election day) to be rather far back in the voters' memories and paid off just before the elections, giving a boost to both the bank accounts of the voters who participated and to the economy, in general, with the Regan administration to take credit for the economic 'rise'; the fact that the boost was rather of a short term would not be apparent until some months after the election. Similar manipulation occurs by private concerns with issues up for vote; back in 2006, there was a proposition on the ballot to raise the amount of fees charged to oil companies drilling in California to offset natural resource depletion, a common practice by many states in the US; the oil companies spent millions (IIRC, the amount by the main lobbying group was USD $19 million) on adverts decrying the proposed increase; what they did that was most effective was, a couple of months or so before the election, they slowly, gradually lowered the prices of gas and diesel in CA while hinting the prices would rise drastically if the fees were increased; the increase was defeated at the polls, but, surprise, surprise, gas and diesel prices shot back up a week or so after election day...

<O>

Catfish · 07-04-20, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Conflating the elections with the COVID-19/SARS-2 related support payments, a nice tactic. If they do make them they are bribing the voters if they don't they are abandoning our citizens. [...]

We will see how much the young and suffering families get after the election.
I have all sympathy for Putin trying to restore Russia as a global power (what it is) and give pride to Russians (what they should have), although this may look a bit dated in our times. See brexit. You know after all trade and cooperation usually works best for all involved, but i take it it for some it has been too long since the last war.

Catfish · 07-05-20, 04:57 AM

The Forever Putin

So millions of Russians have agreed to change the constitution, most of them without reading it. Nine articles have been altered, God entered the basic constitution, as a guarantor of the unity of the russian federation.
Also russian citizens now know what marriage means: it is the holy bond between man and woman.
And the "president" was guaranteed the right for a forever presidency.

The citizens have thus been relieved from a great burden, they do not have to worry about who should reign their country. Also all this whining that there is no other candidate than Putin, is over. A forever president does not need a rival candidate.

Despite the pandemic and a high risk of contagion, the referendum has been organised flawlessly. One could agree to it everywhere, ballot boxes have been sighted in all kinds of places, in parks, on playgrounds, in backyards and in garbage dumps.
Who did not want to go out was allowed to agree at home, a nod in the tv's direction was enough.

The far-right representatives from Germany, Italy and Serbia sent their independent observers, all those flawless democrats of the AfD and Lega Nord. They have praised this referendum as a big leap in the development of the russian democracy.

No doubt it was a big victory for Putin. There is only one problem, this of a forever life. It cannot even be guaranteed by a perfectly orchestrated referendum. No one knows what will happen to the holy band between man and woman, woman and Putin, if one leaves.

ikalugin · 07-05-20, 08:24 AM

Quote:

And the "president" was guaranteed the right for a forever presidency.

I was under the impression that the wording was changed for two terms period from two terms in a row.

Quote:

3. Одно и то же лицо не может занимать должность Президента Российской Федерации более двух сроков.

While there is the exception for persons who served terms prior to the amendments being passed (Putin, Medvedev) and Putin is going to be rather old in 2036 when it runds out for him it does not allow one to serve indefintely.

Quote:

3.1. Положение части 3 статьи 81 Конституции Российской Федерации, ограничивающее число сроков, в течение которых одно и то же лицо может занимать должность Президента Российской Федерации, применяется к лицу, занимавшему и (или) занимающему должность Президента Российской Федерации, без учета числа сроков, в течение которых оно занимало и (или) занимает эту должность на момент вступления в силу поправки к Конституции Российской Федерации, вносящей соответствующее ограничение, и не исключает для него возможность занимать должность Президента Российской Федерации в течение сроков, допустимых указанным положением.

As such if we take the reforms as a sum, with the change of term length and this new legislation there was little real extension in Putin's ability to stay in office, as he could have done a swap with Medvedev and served another 12 years between them.

Catfish · 07-05-20, 09:58 AM

This second paragraph you posted (and which is taken from the new constitution i suppose?), effectivley makes the first praragraph non-binding. Or in short, the first paragraph could now be spared, it now is a more or less clever (or helpless) justification.

Technically, they could have extended Putin's reign to 2356, but as said before nature will probably limit this.

07-04-20, 04:52 AM	#48
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,498 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Sometimes its more a question of timing: the Covid payments may have been timed to have an effect on voter perception; too early and the voter may forget about the 'largess' by election day; too close to election day and it seems to bee too apparent of a 'bribe/inducement'; we have had similar situations here in the US; during the Regan years, there were certain short-term investment programs that were set up to mature and payoff just before the midterm elections; the timing was very clever since it was set in motion long enough (about a year before election day) to be rather far back in the voters' memories and paid off just before the elections, giving a boost to both the bank accounts of the voters who participated and to the economy, in general, with the Regan administration to take credit for the economic 'rise'; the fact that the boost was rather of a short term would not be apparent until some months after the election. Similar manipulation occurs by private concerns with issues up for vote; back in 2006, there was a proposition on the ballot to raise the amount of fees charged to oil companies drilling in California to offset natural resource depletion, a common practice by many states in the US; the oil companies spent millions (IIRC, the amount by the main lobbying group was USD $19 million) on adverts decrying the proposed increase; what they did that was most effective was, a couple of months or so before the election, they slowly, gradually lowered the prices of gas and diesel in CA while hinting the prices would rise drastically if the fees were increased; the increase was defeated at the polls, but, surprise, surprise, gas and diesel prices shot back up a week or so after election day... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

07-05-20, 04:57 AM	#50
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	The Forever Putin So millions of Russians have agreed to change the constitution, most of them without reading it. Nine articles have been altered, God entered the basic constitution, as a guarantor of the unity of the russian federation. Also russian citizens now know what marriage means: it is the holy bond between man and woman. And the "president" was guaranteed the right for a forever presidency. The citizens have thus been relieved from a great burden, they do not have to worry about who should reign their country. Also all this whining that there is no other candidate than Putin, is over. A forever president does not need a rival candidate. Despite the pandemic and a high risk of contagion, the referendum has been organised flawlessly. One could agree to it everywhere, ballot boxes have been sighted in all kinds of places, in parks, on playgrounds, in backyards and in garbage dumps. Who did not want to go out was allowed to agree at home, a nod in the tv's direction was enough. The far-right representatives from Germany, Italy and Serbia sent their independent observers, all those flawless democrats of the AfD and Lega Nord. They have praised this referendum as a big leap in the development of the russian democracy. No doubt it was a big victory for Putin. There is only one problem, this of a forever life. It cannot even be guaranteed by a perfectly orchestrated referendum. No one knows what will happen to the holy band between man and woman, woman and Putin, if one leaves. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 07-05-20 at 05:25 AM.*

07-05-20, 09:58 AM	#52
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	This second paragraph you posted (and which is taken from the new constitution i suppose?), effectivley makes the first praragraph non-binding. Or in short, the first paragraph could now be spared, it now is a more or less clever (or helpless) justification. Technically, they could have extended Putin's reign to 2356, but as said before nature will probably limit this. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.