The Turkish-Kurdish Dilemma

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Could this be a partial consequence of what has happened regarding the Kurds?

This is probably more related to the increased weight of Iran and Iran/KSA proxy war (including the whole line of tanker related incidents) and the desire of KSA to negotiate a settlement of sorts.


That US obviously cannot help with due to the recent sanctions against Iran etc.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

OK gents, I know in the news "the Kurds"seem to be the latest most talked about subject. And I think have lead you all to believe there is some united front for an independent state founded on freedom and democracy who got screwed, blah blah. But when you say' the Kurds' were this or 'the Kurds' were that, 'the Kurds' were our friends etc. etc. Which tribe of Kurds are you speaking about?

The Jalali, Milan, Ḥaydaranlu, or the Shiʿite Turki-speaking tribes Calabianlu, Moḥammad Ḵanlu, Ḥosaynaklu, Ḥaji ʿAlilu, Ḥasan Beglu, and Qaracorlu? What about the Sarsiv, Tilakuʾi, Bani Ardalan, Jaf, Hulilan, Guran, Kalhor, Sanjabi, Sarafbayani, Kerindi, Bajalan, Nanakuli, and Zangana? The ones I mentioned above are only a small fraction of the others I did not. Which ones even give a rats arse about independence or what going in Syria? Which Kurdish tribe are you all lamenting over and paying so much attention too here when the headlines and news outlets keep bringing up "the Kurds"?

What an ignorant analogy,lol

[August]

Originally Posted by eddie

What an ignorant analogy,lol

What an ignorant observation, lol.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

OK gents, I know in the news "the Kurds"seem to be the latest most talked about subject. And I think have lead you all to believe there is some united front for an independent state founded on freedom and democracy who got screwed, blah blah. But when you say' the Kurds' were this or 'the Kurds' were that, 'the Kurds' were our friends etc. etc. Which tribe of Kurds are you speaking about?

The Jalali, Milan, Ḥaydaranlu, or the Shiʿite Turki-speaking tribes Calabianlu, Moḥammad Ḵanlu, Ḥosaynaklu, Ḥaji ʿAlilu, Ḥasan Beglu, and Qaracorlu? What about the Sarsiv, Tilakuʾi, Bani Ardalan, Jaf, Hulilan, Guran, Kalhor, Sanjabi, Sarafbayani, Kerindi, Bajalan, Nanakuli, and Zangana? The ones I mentioned above are only a small fraction of the others I did not. Which ones even give a rats arse about independence or what going in Syria? Which Kurdish tribe are you all lamenting over and paying so much attention too here when the headlines and news outlets keep bringing up "the Kurds"?

You went to a lot of trouble to make your point Rockstar ... I don't have an answer cause I am a redneck that wonders why we would care about Muslims's anyway.

[Mr Quatro]

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...r-trip-to-urge

Erdoğan confirms he will meet with Pence after initial confusion

A spokesman for Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Wednesday confirmed that the president would meet with Vice President Pence during their trip to Ankara amid bipartisan backlash in the U.S. over President Trump's decision to withdraw troops from Syria.

The announcement came after initial confusion following an interview Erdoğan gave to Sky News in which he appeared to say he would talk only to Trump.

I bet Erdogan has something on Trump that he can't talk about on the phone

[August]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

I bet Erdogan has something on Trump that he can't talk about on the phone

I wonder how many CIA whistleblower spies the Democrats are sending along.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by August

I wonder how many CIA whistleblower spies the Democrats are sending along.

As many as you have tinfoil hats.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by eddie

What an ignorant analogy,lol

Ummm its not an analogy. It was a question, with probably 50 or more Kurdish tribes scattered throughout Persia which ones are you speaking of and lamenting over? Or in your case, because you seem such a war hawk, plan on taking up arms with when you go to Syria? The ones that fought against Assad or the ones who joined him against Turkey? The, Sunni or the Shia Kurdish sects .


This is a war between a multitude of alliances and political factions such as the Muslim brotherhood, Sunni and Shia tribes and divisions within divisions. Its been going on since the days of Ishmael.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

You went to a lot of trouble to make your point Rockstar ... I don't have an answer cause I am a redneck that wonders why we would care about Muslims's anyway.

Care about Muslims? We should try to look beyond that and care about our fellow man PERIOD. I am by no means a pacifist but I find absolutely no reason to send our young men and women over there to get involved in their centuries old wars and power struggles between dictators and religious zealots.

[Skybird]

Rockstare is right - there ARE many different branches and tribes of Kurds. Some maintain alliances and relations of years and decades of duration, others opportiunisically turn their heads constantly, depending on from where the wind blows every new morning. Personally, for what ever its worth all my experiences with Kurds in South-Western Turkey were positive, we depended on them on some occasions, and never were let down or betrayed. So from a subjecitve point of view I cannot tell anythign bad about them. This does not mean that there might not also be others. Every herd has its black sheep. And the Kurds certainly have good reasons to feel bitterness about their historical fate. Its like with other people as well: watch carefully out whom you deal with, caution pays off. Not all Kurdish groups are the same, some are friendly, some are less so.

[Jimbuna]

Turkey has agreed to a ceasefire in northern Syria to let Kurdish-led forces withdraw, US Vice-President Mike Pence has announced.

All military operations will be paused for five days, and the US will help facilitate an "orderly withdrawal" of Kurdish-led troops from what Turkey has termed a "safe zone" on the border.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50091305

I doubt this will mean the return of the 50 or so US service personnel now that the Russians are involved.

[Dowly]

1. Cause a problem
2. Fix the problem you caused
3. Bend over
4. Receive kisses from your supporters

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dowly

1. Cause a problem
2. Fix the problem you caused
3. Bend over
4. Receive kisses from your supporters

What "fix"?

[Rockstar]

True, there are Kurds in the U.S. happy to be here being out of a warzone. There are Kurds in Turkey who really dont even consider themselves, nor are looked upon by the Turks as Kurds anymore. There are kurds content at trying to scratch out living with what they have where ever they might live in the world. Then there are religious and political zealots who for whatever reason will kill, even each other, for power and as long those exsist we western nations even the U.S. will have power to influence affairs in tbe middle east.

Saddens me too seeing congress do what they did, no sensible reason, plan or goal why we should have our troops remain. Public just goes along with it cheering their party /team with empty meaningless catch phrases. The vote was nothing more than an act of political self preservation.

[Skybird]

Sure, when you go sailing with a friend and then decide you have enough of it and him/her, you have the right to say so and to separate from him/her. Just that you need to return to the beach or harbour and put the other back on land would be the correct and acceptable way to exceute the splitting up - not to throw the other into the water on high sea and then sail away yourself.


The Russian presence has created new faqcts, and the whole going allows Assad to reclaim much of the lost terriories again. Penc emight have been successful, apparently, to convince Erdoghan that here was a chance to agree to an escaqpe option for the Kurds without loosing his face. I cannot see that the Americans had any pressing argument there to which Erdoghan must obey. It was the Russians' weight he had to react to. The Russians on their behalf once again score: profilating themselves as a peace-enforcing factor, and securing for Assad the retaking of some of the lost territories, without too much cost and battle so far. To go into the breach between Turks and Syrians and telling Erdoghan they would nto allow any clashing of the two, was once again a good move of theirs.