Your Ideal Doomsday Survival Situation/Prepper Thread

[August]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Holy hell, who's buying up all the ammo?!

https://www.midwayusa.com/556x45mm-nato/br?cid=21887

Same folks who bought up all the toilet paper probably.

[mapuc]

Another thing which could be good to have is those old fashion kerosene lamp.

Some of these and some gallon kerosene.

Give light and heat nearby.

Remember them from when I was a little boy-2-4 years old.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Good advice about can food, "When in doubt throw it out"

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Another thing which could be good to have is those old fashion kerosene lamp.

Some of these and some gallon kerosene.

Give light and heat nearby.

Remember them from when I was a little boy-2-4 years old.

Markus

Just an FYI, be careful if you plan to light one in a modern house or structure.

If the house was built to reduce drafts or save heat (tight closing doors and windows), you'll need to open a window for ventilation.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Another thing which could be good to have is those old fashion kerosene lamp.

Some of these and some gallon kerosene.

Give light and heat nearby.

Remember them from when I was a little boy-2-4 years old.

Markus

I bought glow in the dark pearl additive.
Added to a clear base paint and sprayed some things.
Exposed to sunlight? They glow for up to 7 hours!
No fuel needed. No fumes during use.

[Mr Quatro]

What's in your pantry?

I decided to look in an old microwave that I had hidden some Campbell soup cans in for the terrible day that never came.
I have no idea how long ago maybe three years ago.

Here's the results:

Campbells Chucky Baked Potato with cheddar & bacon bits Feb 2020

Campbells Chucky Baked Potato with cheddar & bacon bits May 2020

Campbells Chucky Chicken Noodle March 2020

Campbells Chucky Chicken Noodle April 2020

Campbells Chucky Philly-Style Cheesesteak Feb 2020

Old El Paso Green Chilles refried beans times 2 June 2020

[Onkel Neal]

Why 'preppers' are going mainstream
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55249590

It must be really hard to prep living in an apartment in a big city. Good luck.

[Skybird]

Good advice from a secret squirrel: squirrels (European ones at least) have always several drays, and mother squirrels separate their kindergarden drays from their others, and always have at least one secondary so-called shadow dray beside the kindergarden dray.

Being prepared and later finding one had not to be, does not hurt. Not being prepared and then getting hit - that does hurt.

And all the money paid for insurrances will not bail you out right in the middle of an emergency. And if you never have an emergency, you never see that money back. Is that really the best of possible investements?

Do like the squirrels. Prepare. Get this just-in-time-delivery thing out of your life.

[Skybird]

This is the prepper thread, but what is a prepper thread without a Bagout Bag thread? Because even if you prepped, things can always get much worse , forcing you to get out, and quickly.

Last week, temps between 0 and 5 degrees over night, some moisture, I ran my yearly "exercise" of setting up an emergency camp and sleeping outside. I am co-owner of the property and garden, it was in the garden, so why not (formally, wild camping is forbidden in germany). Tarp, Bivvybag, thermo-pad and sleeping bag in action. I hate Bivvy Bags, but in case of an emergency I would not have none, they are practical. Just, please, not in warm temperatures, and not if you need to get inside in an already moist condition... In the desert (temp-wise), I would not use it, and never have done so when havign been there. The guys would have sent me queer views for using one anyway... The photos unfortunately did not go well, I am not aware of what the problem was with the camera, the display looked sharp, the image in the SD card was just blur.

However, today followed the yearly checkup of my Bagout Bag, which i use to maintain since severla years already. Thought I post it in this thread, maybe others have their little bagout hobby too and have either tips or their own photos and reports!?

Why I do this? First, its an eccentric hobby of a big boy who at heart stayed a young boy. Second, for some serious concerns. My scenarios on mind why I would maybe need to move out quickly, are several, and each of them is possible, absolutely realistic and reasonable.

There could be a temporary or longer evacuation by the authorities, so bagging out actually is an organised evacuation into an urban environment. An industrial accident. An air traffic desaster. A regional pandemic (hear, hear...). In these scenarios, one would expect to get evacuated into an urban environment, possiblly with a roof over the head, warmth and shelter, supplies, sleeping places.

What I worry much more over, is a serious, days-lasting power blackout, and if that lasts for lets say 3-4 days and is covering major parts of Europe (its an integrated powergrid), them bringing power back would not be a thing of just days, BUT WEEKS. And no water in the kitchen or bath room for that time. I take civil unrest, riots, violence, crime as granted in such a scenario. Its difficult to foresee whether closing up the bunker and hunkering down, or getting out and to somewhere else would be the better option, but once somebody realises I have stockpiled reserves, my place is just a target for predators. Police or military would not be there to help me. Too many dogs are even the fastest rabbid's death.

A third concern is a nuclear accident in one of those old French or Belgian nuclear powerplants. In my region, the wind mostly is from there to here, so there is a real risk, since they run some very old and quite lousy reactors. Since huge masses need to be evacuated, I would not bet all my money on the authorities to get me out. I always base on that I would be on my own. Anything better than that is just an unexpected bonus.

These are my prime reasons.

My bagout bag weighs 15.5 kg, of which 3 kg are 3l of water, so without that, its 12.5 kg. Not as low as I would want it, but I am getting rusty and old, and routines in handling a scenario with me staying in open nature somewhere are fading, are almost gone by now, its over twenty years ago that I did such stuff in reality. The lack of routine (or experience, for that matter) better is compensated for then by having a bit more of techncial aids with you: leave the puristic approach with ultralight bagout bags of less than 10 kg to people who really know what they are doing with minimalistic supplies). 10-12 kg is ideal to have essentials with you, but still being not overloaded and so being fast, endurable and mobile; 12-18 kg I would consider to be acceptable still as long as you are sure you have the stamina for it, but as long as you are not really in good physical shape: avoid having your Rucksack being filled beyond 18-20 kg - you get slow, your legs have less reach, you get tired easier, drinking water becomes more a concern the more you sweat. The weight you pull must equal your physical abilities - and do not overestimate yourself. We all get older.

My readied bag is a mix of meeting both urban and natural destinations. If I would have time in an emergency, obviously I would spend it to make choices for the included equipment, make minor adjustments on the fly, take out this and instead put in that. However, in its ready-state it includes items useful for both scenario types.

In Germany, firearms are almost impossible to legally own and open carry is a no go anyway. However, if you have a big pack and the world has turned into an emergency zone, you must think about arming yourself, being capable of using what you choose as your arms. The stuff you own make you prey for predators. And there will be predators. Survival always means: fighting off others who want what is yours. And that is no metaphor, that is real! Just saying. Get armed. Survival scenarios in the vicinity of othe people always means: combat, defending yourself, fighting attackers off. You must be prepared for that - physically, and psychologically.

Choose items and tools that have more than one power source if they are electric, can run on different battery types, for example, and tools that can be used in dual or more purposes/functions. Hint: some of these tools make good weapons, too - if you know how to utilise them. The radio and the lamps I use, all cna be run at least on two different battery types thnat are pretty common: AA, and CR123. Plus a small solar polanel. Plus cable and charger. Plus rechargable batteries. Diversify your options.

If you end up in a scenario of military conflict or civil war of any means, running around with a blackened knife, binoculars and map and compass can get you easily hanged up for "spying for the enemy." Worth to keep that on mind.

Choose good clothing, but if your destination is unclear or urban, avoid hunter or military camouflage - you attract unwanted attention that way if you are in an urban environment.

For the same reason, avoid military-camouflaged Rucksacks. It looks cool when being in the wilderness, but in a city? My Rucksack I have choosen with a dark, but non-military colour: medium and dark blue. Neutral, that is. However, my rain-cover for it has BW camouflage - that way I can always opt to hide it this way.

A word on rucksacks. Dont save money there. Test them with carrying-weights put in, equalling the weight you expect to carry in it. Good sellers of these offer that in their shops. If you are male but by your figure, skeleton is slim, especially around your shoulderss and chest, do not be shy to check out models designed for females. The geometry of belts and strips for the shoulders is slightly different, and small or slim males may find them to fit them better than all male Rucksacks. I know what I tell you there - I have chosen a women Rucksack for myself, too, the belts simply match my shoulder better, I may have a belly from too much good food, but my shoulders nevertheless are relatively narrow, by skeleton I am a slim man. Remember, you will maybe carry that thing with weight for hours and hours. take your time when buying it, choose wisely, and forget the difference between male and female Rucksack models. What matches you best, is what you should choose, no matter what they name it as. And no bright colours, no hunter camouflage. Neutral dark colours. Dont attract attention - deflect attention.

And now, the full display.



Yes, it all fits in. With 3l of water, Rucksack and equipment, its all around 15.5 kg. Some of the items are high quality and rated as ultralight, not cheap, but effective. In case of need, I could live from this autark for 4 days, and a bit longer if need arises. May not be the most pleasant of times, however. Emergency ratios are formally for two days, but you do not really need 2300 calories per day, I can halve that, even triple, I even eat occassionally nothing for a day throughout the year. Water however is a critical supply.

All pictures can be clicked (twice) to zoom in.



In the top bag, there are two bags, one can be accessed from the outside, the other only when opening the lid. The outside bag has this:


A good knife (the most important and diverse tool you should always have with you, should be of very good quality), First aid and "Israeli bandages" for general purpose (civilian needs, not military, when expecting the use of firearms, I would pack very different stuff for first aid, and would need three times as much room), waterkey (urban scenarios: just think a while on how often you meet public doors and gates and locks with simple waterkey locks of any geometery, or hydrants), map, compass (please, a good one!), and for quick access one of several packs with some leafs of toilet paper. Cellphone and money purse with papers and such also would go in there. The medikit you should always fill yourself, never go with the prepacked ones, their choice of items almost always is poor.

The outside top bag also includes my firebag, giving me several options to make fire: a lighter (as long as it works, why not?), firesteel, sealed waterproof matches that can get lit on any surface, a fresnell lense (the most difficult thing for me to make fire with, it drove me crazy when learning it, but it works once you know how to start it, its a two-phased process with fresnel lenses at least: first you just make coal, and then you ignite the coaled parts of the wood, trying to ignite tinder with it directly never worked for me), a box hand-made tinder (cotton balls with vaseline, burns great), and a simple credit card-sized metal sheet with various fishing hooks and such on it.

Accessible from the opened lid, there is a sealed pack of money in small notes (all bags shown are water-sealed), pencil, paper, Steripen (later on that), and sealed USB sticks with digital copies of all personal documents and important papers: insurrances, ID papers, money things etc.). Last, a pack with cables and adapters and a charger (for smartphone, and the electric devices, saving the batteries where possible).

Tools obviously depend on what you expect to end up with. In an urban scenario you may want to prioritize others than if you expect to head for a natural destination, lets say a forest. In multi role ready state, I always have the cable cutter (wire fences are quite common obstacles in cities) , the water key, the small shovel and the foldable saw packed. Axe, bigger shovel, machete, chainsaw I would consider for an expected nature destination, and the machete as obviously a weapon, but that thing attracts attention that might not be wanted. Choices, choices... Ironcially, the multi function tool, in this case by Victorinox and not by Leatherman, is the most useless. In the forest it is of almost no use, and in an urban area only slightly more, but it comes at a hefty weight, so I would most likely not bother to pick it, the load is heavy enough already, and the small swiss army knife on my belt is MUCH lighter and almost as useful.



Water cleaning, well, that is not much a concern for me, in my part of the world practically all surface water like lakes and rivers are to be considerd as chemically intoxicated to the level of grey water. Indutry, agriculture, sewers, traffic - do not even think about trying to make drinking water of that! The mobile tools I have to clean water, all are just helping against biological threats: viruses, bacteria, protozoons. I thus only have the electrical UVC-lamp with me, its light, small and has little weight costs attached to, considering that I most likely would never use it anyway. I have some bigger kit not on the picture, for the kitchen sink, it is uselfull if after weeks of blackout one day the water is back but the pipes are polluted by germs due to the long dryness.

In my part of the world, better chase after bottled water. In more natural countries like Sweden or who knows where, it might be different - but not in mid-Germany. This is no wilderness, here, this all is just an urban park in factories' backyards.

Only the Steripen is in the Bag, the rest stays at home.



The main bag holds inside, or clamped on top: a bivvy bag, an ultralight high quality isolation pad, one fo two ultralight high quality sleeping bags (one for winter, one for spring/autumn, in the picture it is non-compressed, you can squeeze it to a third of the shown size), a camouflaged tarp 3x3 meters, snaplights, special paracord (I think over 340 kg) with inbuild fibres for cable slings, fishing lines and tinder), a second set of underwear, socks and T-shirt,



then there is the electronics pack: replacement batteries CR123 and AA, a universal camping lantern, a headlight (usually stored in the Rucksack's right belt pocket), a dynamo or battery-driven radio (now replaced with a newer one that has both FM and DAB), and a Geiger counter. Obviously, when those Belgian and French nuclear plants are not in the game of the scenario, I would leave the Geiger behind.


(now better radio than the one in the pic)

Finally, there is the personal hygienics pack: hygienic hand swipes, swipes for my glasses, a second set of glasses, soap, razor, sunblocker, several packs with toilet paper, salt, foldable tooth brush and tooth creme, ear plugs, not shown: a sleeping mask. Do not underestmante earplugs: heavy rain on a tarp or bivvy bag or tent can make real NOISE. Same for the sleeping bag, imagine you are evacuated and with dozens and hundreds sleep in a sports hall of a school, lights on, action all around, constant come and go, around the clock. Switch off the light, switch of the noise- wonderful! Use your bag as a pillow so that you cannot become victim of thieves.




What else is there? A fishmoul spreader, which I do not take for fish, but is a great multi-purpose tool. Cotton handkerchiefs, and one use-handkerchiefs, two packs. Water-desinfecting pills, and water-preserving pills. A tin cup with lid, a spoon-fork combo, a bowl, all ultralight, titan. Three packs of dextrose. 2 bottles of 1.5 l water each. 2 packs of NRG-5 emergency ratios, 2300 calories each. Desinfecting Iodine. Pain killers. Tabletts against diarrhea. Small pocket spotting scope (Spektiv) since it has almost no weight. Additional sticking plaster. Cable binders of two kinds. Walking sticks that also can serve as masts if utilizing the Tarp accordingly. Obviously herrings for the tarp and bivvy bag, lines. So called elephant skin, a robust plastic foil to be used as the first layer in the groudn where you build your sleeping place on (isolates against moisture from the ground). Rain-proof gaiters. A rainshield for the rucksack in Bundeswehr Flecktarn (works great for hiding the poack away in natural places, Flecktarn is really stunning in most typical German landscapes, but the Finnish colour schemes match German forests at spring and summer perfectly, too).

Heck - I missed to add a candle stump. Did not relaise it before now, for years--- Very recommended, as a fallback option for light, also to preserve fire once you made one - or try to make a fire. Slow flame in the tinder - immediately use the tiny flame to lit a candle, and you are safe for the moment even if the small flame in your tinder goes off again. Also, obviously a light source.

Do yourself a favour: PRACTICE making fire in several ways. Its good fun, and it may pay off. Doing it the first time, unprepared, with nothing but theoretic knowledge, can prove more tricky and difficult than you imagined before. I could even make fire with nothing but wooden sticks - if I have the right wood, that is. A lighter brought from civilization however is always preferred. Unfortunately it tends to have run out of gas when you need it most. If you are in a scenario of conflict, try to get along WITHOUT making fires. Fires, smoke can be smelled at very great distances, not to mention the shine at night. If you must fear other people, making a fire is simply stupid. If you have canned food, eat it cold, its not about taste, its not about longterm health effects - its about calories, and nothing else.

The bag is packed ready-to-leave, with the only exception of the sleeping bag. Since I would need to choose due to the temperature zones of them being 15° apart, and their filling not liking to stay squeezed together all year long, they are placed nearby, open, and loose. Its the only item that I would need to add to the pack, plus my smartphone, purse and maybe some more money, if time allows. If there is time, I can tailor especially the tools according to what I think I can expect. But I could get moving within five minutes - so dont even think about trying to spend me a surprise visit.

This is it, my escape capsule without warp drive, no phasers, and not romulan camouflage field.

Have you helpful tips, comments, or want to present your own set?


Now that I think of it, a roll of heavy duty duct tape might be usefull, too. Depends on the weight calculation. But "Panzerband" is extremely versatile.

[Rockstar]

We have what are called Dude Wipes personal hygene is important they're good to clean up with when there is no water. Also its always good to have spare athletic underwear. They're very light weight they have an elastic waistband and thighs which help keeps ticks and other creepy crawlies from climbing up you pant leg and latching on to the family jewels. Spare socks too, polyester or merino wool. Both are easy to wash and dry fairly fast.

Nothing like a fresh pair of underwear and socks at the end of the day. Big moral boaster.

Id take a picture of the rest of my tent and sleeping gear but im using it right now. I try later my connection not very good

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Nothing like a fresh pair of underwear and socks at the end of the day. Big moral boaster.

And how would you know that Rockstar

Looking forward to your picts ...

Good posting sky ... you definitely are ready

[Skybird]

On Batteries, I recently found out about Energizer Lithium AA batteries.

My trail cam that I set up in Septembreto minitor the red squirrels at my nut feeder, originally were equipped with really good Varta alkaline batteries, the best alkalines you can get in Germany. They lasted for almost eexatly four weeks, at the night temperatures that we had in that month, around 10°C or so. They have a shelf life of 3-5 years (reading "best before 2025" currently).
I next tried Energizer Lithium batteries. They are now enetering their seventh week, with night temperatures from -1° to 6°C, and a shelve life claimed to last until 2040 ! Quite a big difference, I would say. I meanwhile have changed the Varta batteries on my pictures with Energizer Lithiums.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

T
The bag is packed ready-to-leave, with the only exception of the sleeping bag. Since I would need to choose due to the temperature zones of them being 15° apart, and their filling not liking to stay squeezed together all year long, they are placed nearby, open, and loose. Its the only item that I would need to add to the pack, plus my smartphone, purse and maybe some more money, if time allows. If there is time, I can tailor especially the tools according to what I think I can expect. But I could get moving within five minutes - so dont even think about trying to spend me a surprise visit.

That's an amazing kit, I cannot think of anything you are missing other than a Ruger SR9. 15 kg is about 34 pounds, Have you had a chance to simulate carrying the pack across the city on foot?

Tools obviously depend on what you expect to end up with. In an urban scenario you may want to prioritize others than if you expect to head for a natural destination, lets say a forest.

What kind of disaster would constitute an urban scenario vs a forest retreat?

[Skybird]

I have had a test run through a naturla reserve north of my location, four hours. I found that my physical durability can still handle it, and for more hours - but that shoes need to be choosen wisely. With such gear the temptation is to pick light shoes, but better is to go with heavier shoes offering better stability, helps to protect against injuries if doing a mistep. Also, in a longer scenario, the pack would become lighter over time due to the water getting consumed. But I certainly would not want to get any heavier. In rugged, steep terrain in free nature, I maybe would also throw off one, two, three kilograms, it depends. But keep on mind this is Germany, not the much bigger wildernesses you have in North America. Around my hometown, its flat, flat, flat. Even the Teutoburger Foirest in the North has just some hills easy to be mounted by foot and not higher than 270m. This is the Northern German plains where they expected the red tank columns racing through towards the Dutch ports...

On your second question. An urban scenario would be an evacuation organised by the authorities or government, as an example - or rioting, crime in the streets during a failure of civil order. A scenario with an escape into or through more natural places may be a chaotic escape due to some industrial accident (radioactive cloud), or again riots, civil war-like violence. We have no strict separation here between natural habitat and urban area, city, its all close together, titsy tiny. In its usual read ystate, my pack adresses both scnearios, orbvan and nature, it would be of greta help in both.

If things are not totally chaotic, and I have a few minutes time, I can choose on the equipment. I may not need the bivvy bag (-1 kg), maybe also not the elephant skin, (-800gr.). Or the tools: shovel, saw., howeverr these do not weigh much. The Geiger. However, I tend to kedep water. Ypou can pout it away underway if you find you can afford to do so, but not having it if you need it, is a bad surprise easy to avoid.

If time is of the essence, its easier to have a diverse layout packed and then sorting stuff out before leaving, than to have a half-empty bag and then needing to pack stuff in, getting it fixed and evertyhign packed tight and sealed weather-proof. That the pack weighs in its readyx state 15.5 kilograms, does not necessarily mean I would embark with all that. Could be up to 3 kilograms less in fact. It really depends. As I said, one should never go beyiond 18 kg if one is no well trained athlete. You loose on reach, speed and durability, and you need more water. Being closer to 12 than 18 kg, is better. I am in the middle, and likely would quickly shift to the lower end of thios range. Its okay. In a couple fo years form nbow on, I may thinn difrefebtly on weights - or sleeping in tarps and bivvy bags...

In the end, the most likely scenario is a blackout, I really expect that in the coming years, sooner or later, since the German energy policy is an unbelievable heap of incompetent mess and amateurishness. Beyond that, all this bagout bag prepping is a bit playing adult boyscout, like others go into the basement and build their miniature railroad. Due to my growing age, my most likely staretgy in case of such scneairo would be to stay put in palce and defend my place, sicne I am wel supplied to last in place for 2 months if not longer, without further preparation needed. At some age, you simply became too old to play the fresh youngling's games anymore. Age gets us all. Robust defence then may be the better option.

If somebody does like this, I just would really, really recommend to practice once a year to set up the tent, tarp, bivvy bag or whatever he has opted for, so that the manual routine gets freshed up. A bivvy is still uncomoplkic ated, a tent in strong gusts and at night - you need to know how to do it, you need to practice it, theoretical knowledge alone is not the best way... Because one can unlearn routines if not practicing them long enough, or one needs to do it in a real emergency, but under non-ideal conditons like darkness or heavy wind, and then routine helps. That is especially true for knots, tarps and tents.

A tarp always is more versatile to use than a tent. And lighter. I probabaly would choose either the tarp or the bivvy bag to carry with me, not both, due to weight. It depends. The bivvy bag works great, but you should not have claustrophobia, especially in cold conditions when you would reduce the space inside even more by using not just a sleepign bag but an isolation pad as well - the one I use is for use in even icy conditions, but that means it also is thick, and it cannot be placed under the bivvy bag because then you have an elevation inside and a dramatic lack of stability for the whole construction, you will slip off the pad in when crawling into the sleeping bag, or moviong too much in it. It must go into the inside, and the sleeping bag , too. Nothing for claustrophobics. Its effective a solution, but I do not like it. I also would not use a biuvvy in extreme hot conditions, not to mention tropics. You will drown in your condensed sweat.

This is the bivvy I use. I consider it to be excellent value for money, its light, surprisingly big, and if managing the zippers correctlyl, it is waterproof (complaints about the latter imo are caused by inappropriate zipper management). Very good value for money, really. Both visors must stay open, with nets if oyu want, but keep them open, condensation always is a topic to care for in these things, even if you use several times as expensive Goretex bivvies (which also are much heavier).

The head peg should alway sbe use,d not just in rain. It adds to the stability and wind resistence.


And tarps, these few types of using a tarp should be known, and practiced. What else do you have a garden for, eh? Always go with a 3x3 m, not 2x2m.




Funny guy, but he talks the truth. The last he shows, number five, is a favourite of mine. You can use stuff or your Rucksack to cram the door.

[mapuc]

I could be wrong.

Buying survival kits is only a smaller part of surviving a disaster. The biggest thing is the mental and psychological side of it.

The world(society) has collapsed many of your family and friends are gone-would you have the psychological and mental strength to coup with these facts ?

Markus