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Old 06-28-2020, 03:38 PM   #1
Grumpy Pete
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Default AI_Active_Sonar_Mod

Here is an active sonar mod I tweaked for the escorts. It adds "some" challenge without getting absurd. I just added to the stock ranges and tweaked the sensitivity and little (very little). It works with GWX. Not sure how it would work with other megamods. JSGME ready.


http://www.mediafire.com/file/5dc332...ar_Mod.7z/file


Weather is a factor as usual--rough seas=bad sonar performance. Good weather=more challenge. "Keep them in your baffles! Don't give them a broadside profile!"



My first time using mediafire so I hope I got the share set correctly.


EDIT: I left the late war Type 147 sonar as is. It's tough enough!
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:02 PM   #2
Eastwa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Pete View Post
Here is an active sonar mod I tweaked for the escorts. It adds "some" challenge without getting absurd. I just added to the stock ranges and tweaked the sensitivity and little (very little). It works with GWX. Not sure how it would work with other megamods. JSGME ready.


http://www.mediafire.com/file/5dc332...ar_Mod.7z/file


Weather is a factor as usual--rough seas=bad sonar performance. Good weather=more challenge. "Keep them in your baffles! Don't give them a broadside profile!"



My first time using mediafire so I hope I got the share set correctly.


EDIT: I left the late war Type 147 sonar as is. It's tough enough!
I'm about to give it a go I have always founf the escorts in GWX to easy to get away between 39-43 after 44 though you can forget it.

I'll let you know.
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:15 PM   #3
FUBAR295
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Grumpy ... Thanks. Down loaded and will try it out in GWX.

Good hunting,
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Old 08-01-2020, 01:19 AM   #4
Eastwa
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Hi Mate

I gave it a go but had some issues.

Intercepted a convoy and at times both merchants and escorts would fire on me
before I have even sighted them so first thing I know I got "we are under attack message" Also from very long distances 10000 metres.

The escort AI doesn't seem much different I got away all 3 times I crash dived no problems escorts just pounded the wrong area then again I had to crash dive a long way off as I was under attack so got some distance between myself and them.

Even when I was in a convoy and escorts were close I wasn't detected.

So overall I have noticed the escorts (And merchants can attack me from great distances but I don't see any major difference in the AI underwater.)

Not trying to be negative here just what I saw, It maybe that the mods clashing with something else but I enabled it last in JSGME

Kind regards
Eastwa
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:38 AM   #5
Fifi
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@ Eastwa, Depending war date and what mod you play, but escorts and some merchants are Radar equiped! So they « see » you on surface...
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:03 AM   #6
Grumpy Pete
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Thanks for posting guys! I'm interested in what people think about this mod. I can sure tweak it and am willing to put a couple other versions of it out as well.


Eastwa--This mod does not change anything at all with visual detection. In fact, I only change 2 values in the sensors file (mainly range). What you say about the escorts still pounding the wrong area is completely believable. They ain't the sharpest tools in the shed! Sea state also will be a huge factor in detection abilities. Rough seas and you may not notice much difference from the way things played out before the mod. Calm seas and you'll at least be getting pinged a lot more.


I also didn't touch the AI passive sonars. They seem to be ok imo. The biggest change I made to the sonar is simply their ranges. They were set to 1200 and I extended those ranges. Historical range would be ~2500 but I think that's too much of a gift to the escorts because other factors limiting their effectiveness are not modeled in the game.


If anyone would like me to tweak this a bit let me know. I'd be happy to attempt to offer a couple more versions. Keep in mind that testing mods like this is typically quite time consuming...


Thanks again for the posts!





Edit: Also keep in mind the "unknown" of the escorts crew quality. I haven't looked into the crew ratings of the escorts in GWX but know from long-ago experience that there is a huge difference even between Veteran and Elite crews. Also don't be shy about giving negative feedback about this mod. Sometimes that is the most helpful information.

Last edited by Grumpy Pete; 08-01-2020 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:44 AM   #7
Eastwa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Pete View Post
Thanks for posting guys! I'm interested in what people think about this mod. I can sure tweak it and am willing to put a couple other versions of it out as well.


Eastwa--This mod does not change anything at all with visual detection. In fact, I only change 2 values in the sensors file (mainly range). What you say about the escorts still pounding the wrong area is completely believable. They ain't the sharpest tools in the shed! Sea state also will be a huge factor in detection abilities. Rough seas and you may not notice much difference from the way things played out before the mod. Calm seas and you'll at least be getting pinged a lot more.


I also didn't touch the AI passive sonars. They seem to be ok imo. The biggest change I made to the sonar is simply their ranges. They were set to 1200 and I extended those ranges. Historical range would be ~2500 but I think that's too much of a gift to the escorts because other factors limiting their effectiveness are not modeled in the game.


If anyone would like me to tweak this a bit let me know. I'd be happy to attempt to offer a couple more versions. Keep in mind that testing mods like this is typically quite time consuming...


Thanks again for the posts!





Edit: Also keep in mind the "unknown" of the escorts crew quality. I haven't looked into the crew ratings of the escorts in GWX but know from long-ago experience that there is a huge difference even between Veteran and Elite crews. Also don't be shy about giving negative feedback about this mod. Sometimes that is the most helpful information.
Hi Mate

If its okay just as an experiment tweak it to 2500 and repost it and I'll have another crack at it see what its like then.

Yeah okay in regards to the visual sensors maybe it was just me but found it a bit odd.

I'm running GWX gold and the career was in Sep 41 which I thought would be a good mid war time,

Cheers
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:55 AM   #8
Grumpy Pete
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https://app.mediafire.com/myfiles


AI_Active_Sonar_Mod_2500 now available.



Happy being hunted!
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:42 AM   #9
Eastwa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Pete View Post
https://app.mediafire.com/myfiles


AI_Active_Sonar_Mod_2500 now available.



Happy being hunted!
Hi Mate

I opened the link but there was no file in it.

Kind Regards
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:34 AM   #10
Grumpy Pete
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hmm... Try this one.


http://www.mediafire.com/file/bga18e...d_2500.7z/file


Thanks!
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:44 AM   #11
Eastwa
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got it thanks I'll give it a crack!
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:28 AM   #12
Grumpy Pete
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Let me know how it works. There's a lot of adjustments that can be made so details on what does/doesn't work for you are welcome. I'm willing to try to help you get the result you want.



Please include:
1. date of scenario/campaign.
2. Weather conditions when testing.
3. Number and type of escorts (DD, DE-Sloop), Corvette, Other.
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Old 08-23-2020, 01:16 AM   #13
Eastwa
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Hi Mate

Sorry for the reply, bought a new PC and have been getting everything setup for SH3 took forever but now its running looking good.

Hey did a patrol in Feb43 attacked a convoy in North Atlantic very calm weather
escaped initially but when shadowing on the surface putting contact report and was detected by an escort dived to about 70 meters when he was pretty far off was detected again by sonar and I could not shake him no matter what I did, went dead quiet, released bolds, deeper and deeper ended up at 260 meters still couldn't shake him ended up going below max depth and imploded at 300 metres!

So the mod works that's for sure, might have to go to the easier one! LOL.

Always after 44 that's the usual scenario so having such deadly escorts in early 43 was a unpleasant surprise.!!

Kind Regards

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Old 08-23-2020, 02:19 PM   #14
Grumpy Pete
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Yep. That certainly is a likely scenario in calm weather . I've been using the 2500 for a while now and it can be a real buggar to get away, especially in calmer weather conditions.


A little more detail regarding this nod for you. Passive sonar is not affected (I didn't touch those files). However, it can appear to be more effective due to how the game works with the new active range. If you allow the enemy to have a broadside aspect for a long time at ranges ~1500, he may start pinging when without the mod he would have sailed merrily on his way. With a narrow aspect--not so much.


How I get away is by keeping the escort in my baffles between 160 and 200 degrees. You'll still be getting pinged a lot but the chance of detection is much reduced. I (typically) maintain 2 knot speed. Dropping to one knot doesn't "seem" to make much of a difference as long as I'm silent running. Sometimes I drop to one knot (rpm 50) and it can make a difference but part of that difference is due to staying under his sonar cone at close ranges. You can also keep detection chances low by keeping him in your bow profile of 340-20 degrees but the problem there is obvious. You'd closing the range to him and when close, aspect doesn't matter. He'll find you.


The worst case scenario I've had so far was when facing three angry escorts--a DD, Frigate and Flower Class. The problem then becomes their different turning radius'. It makes it impossible to keep them all in your baffles and one will almost always get an angle on you. And those three escorts were persistent! They ignored the convoy and stuck with me til they were out of depth charges. It took four hours in real time to get away--9 hours game time to get away. I was more than happy to use compressed time when they had quit dropping depth charges !


Bottom line: you'll hear a lot more pinging but it doesn't always mean they have contact. Your crew will tell you when they do ("Enemy is pinging us Sir!"). The 2500 mod is tough but that's what I am now using by default. If I know I have limited time to play, I replace it with the 1700 meter version. And don't forget enemy crew quality--the Great Unknown. I'd say it is a safe bet the escort you were pursued by was Elite and that makes a HUGE difference!


Anecdotal information: An interesting point is that in real life, flat calm seas were considered poor for sonar. The reason being, disturbances caused by explosions and ship wakes did not have any wave action to disperse them so sonar indications were confused. Ship wakes actually can be strong enough to give an active return while in passive create Lots of noise. Best sonar conditions were typically sea state two or three. Not that it really matters to the game--just some info.


If you want, I'd be happy to create another version of this mod with an intermediate range. It would be easy to split the difference so three versions would be available--1700, 2100 and 2500. And for others who may interested, while I created this using GWX, I see absolutely no reason it won't work with other mega mods.


Finally @ Eastwa--Congrats on your new computer! Always nice to have some more power under the hood!


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