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Old 02-27-2020, 06:27 PM   #196
THEBERBSTER
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A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community >Martes
Subsim <> Make A Donation <> See The Benefits <> Support The Community
SH3 – 4 - 5 Tutorials > Downloads > Other Useful Information > See Links in My Signature Below
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:10 PM   #197
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Hello again everyone,

apologies on the late update. Non-trivial announcement, though, that these will probably become bi-weekly, meaning every other week. I'll try to drop in on the off-weeks to respond to questions or comments even if there's just one or two.

I'll also try to post Tuesday morning (morning for USA time zones) for this week's. It'll have a little extra something, so look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by longface View Post
Can someone tell me more about what the 68-A is? I'm having trouble finding information about it, only about the 68-bis.
Information on Soviet ships is a bit more scarce than NATO ships, and the Sverdlov in particular seems to be scarce on info. Effects of the iron curtain still seem to linger to today.

All I can say that's true for all ships designated Project 68 A is they were modifications of the 68bis that started in the 70's enlarging the bridge area and adding the 8 AK-230 CIWS guns. I believe there were also ESM suite upgrades. But the Soviets tended to have a habit of modifying ships on a ship-by-ship basis even worse than the US did, meaning different ships received different ESM and radar upgrades, even within the 68 A designation.

One of the best examples of this Soviet inconsistency though is how the Azov differs very significantly from the rest of the Kara class cruisers.

Another example is how the Project 68bis had 5 different subclasses from the main class:
1. The 68 A as discussed,
2. Project 68E: the Dzerzhinsky was modified to use a mid/long-range liquid-fueled SAM (M-2 Volkhov-M, NATO designation: "SA-N-2 Guideline"),
3. Project 68U1: a command ship modification, the Zhdanov had a turret removed to make room for extra accomidations and electronics, 4 AK-230 guns installed and a short-range 4K33 "Osa-M" SAM system installed.
4. Project 68U2: the Senyavin had all of those same modifications, but had an additional turret removed to make room for aviation facilities for a helicopter.
5. Project 68ER: the Admiral Nakhimov had a KSShch (NATO designation: "SS-N-1 Scrubber") AShM system installed in place of both forward turrets.
(all of that is just on Wikipedia)

Dzerzhinsky was relegated to reserve status relatively quickly. The liquid fuel was extremely dangerous for use on a ship, especially a ship that might take damage (hypergolic fuels are a real nightmare).

68ER was decommissioned very quickly, its modification being deemed a failure. It was decommissioned in 1960, while the next ship of Project 68 wouldn't be decommissioned until 1986.

You can get the full, enormous list of modifications and dates here.

Though the US would on rare occasion make comparably significant changes to their ships, they would usually designate the ship as its own class in those events, such as with the Truxtun and Bainbridge "class" ships, which were single-production nuclear-powered variants of the Belknap and Leahy-class ships, respectively, and arguably the Bainbridge had far less significant modifications than many Project 68 subclasses as its armament was unchanged.

Biggest exception to this would be modernization programs.

Though perhaps the mess of modifications on the Sverdlovs makes more sense when one considers they held a similar place to the Soviets as the Iowas held to the US: old ships with great symbolic value that the navies wanted to modernize to keep relevant and commissioned.

Even the Iowas had much more consistent armament, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martes View Post
Just to point out - the forward flags are harbor-only, they would never sail with them.
Thanks for the input! I'll be sure to change things to be accurate, then. Do you know of any good sources that summarize the various naval flag traditions? I've found sources that list the meanings of many signal flags, but there's lots of contextual knowledge like this that's more difficult to come by.
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Old 03-06-2020, 03:04 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkies View Post
Thanks for the input! I'll be sure to change things to be accurate, then. Do you know of any good sources that summarize the various naval flag traditions? I've found sources that list the meanings of many signal flags, but there's lots of contextual knowledge like this that's more difficult to come by.

The ensign regulations are confusing and different for various navies, but as a general rule the ensign on the stern and the jack are flown only on anchored ships in harbor and only in daytime, while underway they either show no ensign at all or fly it from the mast.


BTW, I will duplicate what I have written in Sea Power thread - since it's as relevant here - Will there be any options for non-combat interactions? Like capturing/inspecting/redirecting neutral or suspicious ships, picking up survivors from ships damaged or sunk, downed pilots, etc? When trying to play in heavily modified Cold Waters with a surface ship I encountered a reoccurring problem of damaged subs that blow it and surface, and straightly killing them feels wrong from all perspectives - and unlike a submarine you can't just ignore them.
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Old 03-06-2020, 08:28 PM   #199
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Sorry to ask, but will this be released this year? My credit card is waiting.
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Old 03-09-2020, 12:57 PM   #200
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What is your current intentions for the campaign, insofar as the backstory and objectives? If the first area of operations is going to be the Black Sea and the Med, is something along the lines of this to be expected (Operations in the Black Sea and Bosporus)?

http://northernfury.us/blog/post24/

Cheers,


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Old 03-10-2020, 10:53 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martes View Post
The ensign regulations are confusing and different for various navies, but as a general rule the ensign on the stern and the jack are flown only on anchored ships in harbor and only in daytime, while underway they either show no ensign at all or fly it from the mast.


BTW, I will duplicate what I have written in Sea Power thread - since it's as relevant here - Will there be any options for non-combat interactions? Like capturing/inspecting/redirecting neutral or suspicious ships, picking up survivors from ships damaged or sunk, downed pilots, etc? When trying to play in heavily modified Cold Waters with a surface ship I encountered a reoccurring problem of damaged subs that blow it and surface, and straightly killing them feels wrong from all perspectives - and unlike a submarine you can't just ignore them.
Thanks for the input - I'm looking over many reference photographs again with this awareness and notice it now. It'd be a shot in the dark, but perhaps they fly the flag from the mast if they're a flagship for the Soviet navy, and if they're a formation/group leader for the USN? It's either that, something close to it, or even more circumstantial it looks like.

And yes. One of the reasons I chose the Sverdlov as one of these first few ships is because it offers a variety of gameplay experience. Pure combat can get a bit repetitive, so operations like that have been a plan from the very start, specifically with ships and aircraft leaving behind survivors to pick up.

Also it's an annoying and old trope in games that enemies never surrender. Zateyev may refuse help from USN warships during peacetime, but WWII U-boat incidents are probably a better reference for wartime encounters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbla View Post
Sorry to ask, but will this be released this year? My credit card is waiting.
I sure hope so!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor_341 View Post
What is your current intentions for the campaign, insofar as the backstory and objectives? If the first area of operations is going to be the Black Sea and the Med, is something along the lines of this to be expected (Operations in the Black Sea and Bosporus)?

http://northernfury.us/blog/post24/

Cheers,


Raptor341
The premise is a Soviet pre-emptive strike, believing that Able Archer 83 was a cover-up for a NATO first strike. As such, the Soviets would be making a limited counterforce strike around November 7th-10th, 1983.

At that time, there were two carriers operating in the Mediterranean, off Beirut, to support operations in Lebanon: CV-67 USS John F. Kennedy (only ship of her class, a non-nuclear Kitty Hawk variant) and CVN-69 USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (Nimitz-class). Notably, the USS New Jersey was also present at the time, and the only Iowa-class active until the USS Iowa was recommissioned on the 28th of April '84.

November 7th would be barely a week after the end of Operation Urgent Fury. With the distance involved, and the USS Independence arriving off Beirut on November 18-20, The CV-62 USS Independence (Forrestal-class) would've been underway somewhere in the mid-Atlantic en route to the Mediterranean.

It seems at the time the Slava was probably in port in the Black Sea, judging by US National Archive photographs showing it deploying to the "Northern Fleet Area" in August, and more photographs of it taken in the Mediterranean in September.

So that's the setup. Given the presence of USN Carriers in the Mediterranean and their immediate ability to launch nuclear attacks, as well as their strategic importance in a conventional war, they would make tempting targets for the opening salvos.

Campaign is awhile off, but one of my biggest aims with it is to make it highly fluid, with the player's actions having significant consequences beyond mere success and failure, with many possible branching storyline paths based on decisions made during normal gameplay, such as effectiveness/losses, success, and ruthlessness.
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Old 03-11-2020, 12:49 AM   #202
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Default WEEKLY UPDATE

Hello again, everyone!

First off, I'm glad to announce the opening of a Blue Water Discord server: https://discord.gg/NK7D4Zy
Feel free to join, ask questions, discuss, lounge around and post memes, just use the right channel.

And for today's more regular update, a small feature for the RUR-5 ASROC.

The RUR-5 started development not as the ASROC, but as the RAT (Rocket Assisted Torpedo). But before it became operational in 1961, it was renamed the ASROC (Anti-Submarine ROCket).

78 Gearing-class destroyers were modernized with it, and many ships featured the ASROC's characteristic Mk. 16 8-celled "box" launcher with 4 independently-elevating dual tubes.

It could also be fired from Mk.10 and Mk.26 dual rails.



Sources vary somewhat with range, but a close average seems to be around 820 meters minimum and 16 km maximum (900 yards to 10 miles).

The system was solid-fueled and fired at a fixed launch elevation.



By 1983, units were the Mod 4 or Mod 5 variants, carrying either a Mk.46 torpedo or a nuclear depth bomb with a W44 warhead with a yield of about 10 kT, respectively.

Pictured here is the Mod 5 variant. Understandably, it seems incredibly difficult to find any sources on what the W44-armed depth bomb looked like. Only one source even listed its name as a "Mark 17 Depth Bomb (W44 Warhead)", but I've found no other references to a Mark 17 Depth bomb.

Knowing US practice, though, I wonder if it wasn't visually almost identical to the Mk. 46...



Now showing the Mod 4, Mk.46-loaded variant.



The list of ships that carried this weapon system includes the Bleknap, Leahy, Bainbridge, Truxtun, and California-class cruisers, the Farragut, Charles F. Adams and Spruance-class destroyers, and the Bronstein, Garcia, Brooke and Knox-class frigates, making it almost even as - and perhaps even more - prevalent in its era than the 5" gun.

Also, since all the RUR-5A variants could fire from the same launch systems, this made all of those ships nuclear-capable.



After booster burnout, it would separate and fall away.



At a predetermined point in the flight path, the remaining aerial structure would separate. At this point, if it were the Mod 5 nuclear depth charge variant, it would free-fall, hit the water, shattering the protective nosecone, sink to a predetermined depth and detonate.



But with the Mod 4 Mk.46 Torpedo warhead, it was a bit more complicated - a parachute was released to slow the descent and water entry to a lower speed. On entry, the protective and aerodynamic nosecone would shatter, absorbing some of the impact energy.



Once in the water, the torpedo would power-on and begin a search pattern looking for sonar signatures to engage.

Thanks for joining us today. Feel free to comment and discuss, leave feedback and questions, and join the Discord. This is its public opening, so don't be surprised if not much has happened there yet.

Until next time, clear sailing.
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:10 PM   #203
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Icon14 WEEKLY UPDATE

Hello again everyone,

It looks like a lot of the discussion moved to the Discord server. That's not too surprising, but as a result, we didn't have anything to reply to last week here in this thread.

This week, though, is another update week. And wow how crazy things have gotten in a relatively short period of time. Fortunately I was somewhat prepared already, but I like to try to stay one step ahead of things. The last two weeks have seen a lot of my time and energy taken to making sure friends and family are set to ride out the storm, whether it gets better or worse. That, and completion of the models highlighted recently means there's nothing much new to update on.

However, in addition to being prepared for the worst, it's also a very good idea to be prepared for the more likely case that life goes on as (relatively) normal. As such, work will resume, probably at an accelerated pace, late this week if not sooner.



What an interesting year, eh? Lots of fun memes wondering what April has in store since every month so far just seems to escalate. Fighting Skynet next month sounds fun.

At any rate, it's good to prepare for the worst that you reasonably can, but not at the cost of becoming too unprepared for life to carry on as usual.

Don't spread misinformation - check your sources, think critically from a position of trying to disprove rather than confirm hypothesis, since we as humans have a strong confirmation bias. Trust established science rather than uninformed intuition. Look at data, not anecdote. When it comes to exponential curves/growth, the current value means very little since exponential curves explode very quickly, so rely on the proven science for that sort of thing, not intuition. Exponential models have been extremely accurate thus far.

If I were to skipper a boat, I'd trust the nuclear techs to run and assess the reactor, not my intuition.



If you're cruising in a warship and hear an explosion - Observe, Assess, Decide and Act. You'd gather reports and try to assess while preparing damage control for the worst. Panic sinks ships but rationality designs and builds them, and allows them to complete their missions safely. This isn't all that different. Ask not what others can do for you but how you can best help others stay afloat - that's a great mindset for overcoming fear.

But if you're here and reading this, I trust you're a smart bunch because not everyone likes learning about realistic, technical systems and playing involved strategy sims based around their complex mechanics, so you got this. Go forth and research. Most of you will be fine but you probably know someone who'd be playing a game of Russian Roulette to catch it - mostly the elderly, immunocompromised/unhealthy, and especially smokers, as that makes the lungs much more vulnerable. But even healthy young people are at a small risk - it happens, so stay safe.

I remember someone joking once on these forums that if you wanted a realistic subsim experience of operating a Typhoon or Ohio-class sub, then you should sit in front of your laptop for days, patrolling and doing nothing. Well, if you're in those risk groups, it might be a good time to get a truly realistic boomer patrol experience.



Next update I hope to have some new shinies to show off as game development continues. Or pictures of the destroyed scraps of a robot army I fought off, if April sees fit to gift us with such an experience. Keep Calm and Carry On - be prepared for the worst, but also prepared for the best.

Until next time, clear sailing after this red sky at morning.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:52 PM   #204
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Hey Subsim folks
and

thx for the words AzureSkies,


someone should reply them to Captain Brett Crozier


back to topic: this game looks awesome, sounds like you know alot about all this stuff and maybe served by yourself, discovered this highlite and now i had to register here


so time to wait until we can preorder or put it on our steam wishlist.
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Old 04-14-2020, 09:59 PM   #205
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Hello again everyone,

Sorry to say there's nothing to show off for weekly updates this week, but thanks for dropping by if you're reading this. Development continues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by w33m4n View Post
Hey Subsim folks
and

thx for the words AzureSkies,


someone should reply them to Captain Brett Crozier


back to topic: this game looks awesome, sounds like you know alot about all this stuff and maybe served by yourself, discovered this highlite and now i had to register here


so time to wait until we can preorder or put it on our steam wishlist.
Thanks, I'm glad to hear. Can't say I served, only that 20th century maritime engineering, the Cold War and its associated strategy, tactics and engineering; and physics have all been long-time interests of mine, which makes developing this game a real treat.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:30 PM   #206
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Default Weekly Update Tomorrow

Weekly update coming a day late tomorrow, but we got a shiny new thing I'm looking forward to showing off. See ya then!
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Old 05-06-2020, 02:58 AM   #207
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Keep up good work. im waiting on your game more than any other title.
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Old 05-07-2020, 12:11 AM   #208
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Default VEHICLE HIGHLIGHT

Hello again, everyone!

This week our newest addition is another USN vessel. The last ship that was added was the Sverdlov-class Soviet gun cruiser - and to break up the Soviet streak a little, we're now getting a USN Cruiser - the Belknap class.



It was a tough pick between the Belknap, Leahy, and Virginias. But ultimately, the Belknap won out, as it was slightly more numerous in the US Atlantic fleet than the Leahy, far more numerous than the Virgnias, and the single Mk.10 dual rail, as opposed to two dual rails, would make it a bit easier to balance in designing encounters.

While still limited by the curvature of the Earth due to being a Semi-Active Radar Homing (SARH) SAM system, it boasts a considerable improvement over the Oliver Hazard Perry class'es Mk.13 launcher due to its ability to launch not just RIM-66 SM-1 MRs, but RIM-67 SM-2 ER's.



Two AN/SPG-55 radar illuminators make it possible to guide two RIM-67 missiles simultaneously to separate targets. The internal magazine carried 40 missiles.



The Mk.10 Mod 7 launcher could also fire RUR-5 ASROC missiles, so the internal magazine carried 20. Given the number of nuclear-tipped ASROCs produced, I wouldn't be surprised if the typical number of these that were armed with a nuclear depth bomb instead of the conventional Mk.46 torpedo was around 2-4.





Further back on the ship, three different weapon systems occupied the same space as the superstructure. A Mk.32 three-tube torpedo launcher sits underneath a platform with Mk.36 SRBC chaff/IR decoy launchers. Note that here on the port side, the Harpoon launcher sits on its own platform significantly fore of the port Phalanx CIWS gun, while on the starboard side, the Phalanx is fore of the Harpoon launcher and they share the same area. It's an interesting detail of an asymmetric design.

Below, the harpoon launcher is shown with two of its canisters fired.



But, as always, while torpedoes are a good backup for how little deck space they take, and ASROCs are nice, the true best weapon for ASW operations is the aviation facility.

And finally on the stern end, a Mk.42 5" naval gun. Although a much older weapon than the Mk.45 gun, it boasts almost double the firing rate at 34 rounds per minute. It was designed for 40, but frequent failures during Vietnam led to modification of the design. A reliable 34 is better than a very unreliable 40.

It could fire a range of different ammo types from HC Mark 41 Mod 0 to SP Common Mark 42, each of which could be fitted with proximity, timed or point fuses - it could even use RAP (Rocket Assisted Projectile) Mark 58 rounds for a range up to 30 kyds.

The Belknap-class ships carried a magazine with up to 600 rounds.



That's all for now. Thanks for joining us.

Until next time, clear sailing.


Last edited by AzureSkies; 05-07-2020 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 07-19-2020, 11:01 AM   #209
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Looking forward to this title.

Last edited by Caseck; 07-19-2020 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:03 AM   #210
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Whoa !!!! I have missed this announcement!!

This looks awesome !. Jane‘s Fleet Command was one of my favourite naval sims of all times and I have been missing something like this for years.
I have not found an equivalent in CMANO, great game but the lack of graphics and the time mechanics „realtime vs pause“ have not hooked me with it.

I am really looking forward for Blue Water and I will buy it the minute it becomes avalaible.



I have enjoyed reading the narrative to describe the scenario before Third world war including Andropov letter.
Your attention to detail will ensure this is a great success.
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