Let TvT Survive

[O_Smiladon]

Hello Zeewolf,
My Name is Steve and I am currently a beta tester for world of tanks, and I have been in flight sims for some time now as well IL2 and Rise of Flight.
During my time as a beta tester for WOT I have come to appreciate the tank and what the tank crews of WW2 would have had to go through not just to survive battles but the day to day running of a tank.
And being that I am a sim type of guy I have found T34 v Tiger which is great. However a lot of my friends in my flight sim squad and WOT squad say that TvT is dead, forget it put it back on the shelve the developers went bust no multiplayer no support, bin it. But I would like to see the game resurrected.
I see that you have made some in roads to this game in bring it back to life and I take my hat off to you the work you have done look amazing, but I can’t help feeling that all your work will go to waste once another tank sim comes along that will have today’s modern graphic engines and much better eye candy and a lot less bugs and that your days as pro- Modder are numbered.
Yes we all want to earn a buck and make money but I feel you are putting your talent to a wasted game so to speak, give the code you have cracked to the community to use and let them use it to good affect like IL2 flight sim, that game has stood the test of time due to the community continually updating it for free.
If you want money for what you do why don’t you look at developing a new tank sim altogether you obviously have a talent and the know how to do this.
Find a backer get some people together and get the project of the ground it’s like the saying goes if you build it they will come.
Maybe make a website and ask the community for the support as well, I just feel people don’t really want to pay for something with the words on the end of it install and your own risk, I know I don’t
But this is just my opinion and you do what you have to do.
TvT is a good sim but an old sim give it to the community to keep it alive for free and let TvT survive the test of time.

Regards
Steve

[Sledgehammer427]

I'm not ZeeWolf, but I understand your point
Silent Hunter 3 was a dead game, the engine has been updated with every new Silent Hunter (now on 5)
But people still play it because perhaps their computers can't handle SH4 or 5. Perhaps they prefer the mods for that game instead of the ones for 4 or 5. Silent Hunter 3 is obsolete as you just explained. it's survived because people kept it interesting, building supermods and the like.

Every modder's days are numbered.
Look at the Grey Wolves. they turned Silent Hunter 3 into a true simulation, but now they aren't making any more mods, not as a team.
Ducimus built TMO and many other mods for Silent Hunter 4 and now he's essentially retired.
I can list a great many. Myself included.
I used to make make subs campaign playable. but there are other people who picked up that torch. I am second in command of the Surface Warfare Supermod, building battleships for Silent hunter 4, a game, apparently obsolete. I won't do this forever, and I know that.

Zeewolf is offering an honest price for his work, it's a niche genre, not many people even own a copy of TvsT. He is offering a price for all of the work he is doing, which is by himself. He is investing time he could be spent doing other things, thus, I would gladly pay him to take some time out of his life and make a quality simulation, and a stable game out of TvsT.
I'm glad someone is even doing it. I think far too many modders looked at the game and said "I'm not touching that."
Don't make him give up all of his hard work just because the game is "obsolete."
When this new tank sim you are talking about comes out, I think a very few people will have the machines to run it, and even fewer of them will actually have the interest to play it. It will have it's own modders and it's own support group.
TvsT is a blank canvas. Let's see what masterpeice ZeeWolf will make of it

[O_Smiladon]

Hi,

Yes I do thinks he is doing a great job, and if he can make some money on the way, then all good to him.

Its just that if you are going to pay for something you want to know that its going to work in the frist place and second not having to worry about if a friend chooses not to buy that mod then by the things that I am reading he will not be able to link up with you in MP.

If thats the case then you are spliting the sim in two. One sim for all is I suppose were I am coming from.

O_Smiladon

[Sledgehammer427]

Ah.

well, the price you pay for Zee's mod actually means you get all of his further mods for a year, it's still in development stage, he's pulling the criticisms from the current members of his group and using it to further develop his mod.

As for TvsT Multiplayer, it was junk to begin with. Just like crossing SHII and Destroyer Command. Honestly, I think Multiplayer should go to other games like World of Tanks. What zee is doing is converting the game into a simulation. Thus, everyone who has the mod, will treat it that way in multiplayer and it's not for everybody. Believe me.

[frinik]

O-Smiladon,

I couldn't agree more with Sledge Hammer. First of all , ZeeWolf is neither wasting his time nor his talent. What he said clearly in his first message to all us back in November 2009(read the threads) is that TvsT is his own consuming passion and that he loves that sim without reservation.He made it his mission to ressurect it and turn it into what he feels will be the best WWII tank sim on the market.He is not there yet but he is making steady inroads and has managed to attract a loyal and growing group of fans.I also have no doubt that unless badluck strikes he'll turn the new TvsT into a WWII tank sim classic. On another thread I was suggesting half tongue-in-cheek that we should rechristen the game Zee34 versus Zeeger.

When you talk of better eye-candy, bugs and deadend sim you are taking about the original game which was indeed bug-ridden, limited but still graphically pleasing to the eye. TvsT is graphically good and compare favourably with other tank sims like Steel Beasts( which I play), Steel Fury( which I am also a dedicated fan) and way ahead of Panzer Elite( which I also like and play) even with all the latest mods.

Zee Wolfe has pumped new life in the game with new maps, better AI and ballistics, new tanks , new mods and missions and numerous improvements. By next year the number of playable tanks will have increased as well as other improvements to the game.The bugs and glitches of the past are just that ; things of the past.The game is stable even though the price has been lower fps in some cases.


If you feel that he wasting his time and talent then I suggest you download and install and play his freebies( German missions 1 and 6 and Soviet mission 1) and see if you still feel the same? Don't feel like I am bashing you Man! You are entitled to your opinion and I am just being blunt self.This is my style not by any means a put-down...

Anyway, I am sure he'll read your thread and will give you his own take on the issue you are raising.

Nothing is eternal in the World and this goes for games and mods as well.That being said, you can see that tank sims that are more than a decade-old; Panzer Elite being one( 12 years old) and Steel Beast, which recently celebrated it's 10th aniversary, are still being modded and played extensively. Steel Fury is 3 years-old and is still being actively modded and improved while Tvst - which is also almost 3 - is still very much alive thanks to ZeeWolfe's one-man crusade. On the other hand, I wonder if a tank arcade-style game like World of Tank will still be around 2 or 3 years from now????

Re Multiplayer, I think he has left the door open to co-operation with MP modders in the future.

Cheers

Frinik

[O_Smiladon]

S! frinik,

No worries frinik I can take it . As said i do take my hat of to the man and I do think he is doing a wonderful job and he deserves a medal for his efforts so far.

And Zeewolf if you do read this thread you are a champ mate and if I could meet you I would be one of the frist to come up and shake your hand, to give your time into a sim that was dead and nearly burried is truly great IMHO.

But I just cant help but feeling like IL2 the game became timless becaues of the muiltiplayer aspect and the communitiy getting behind it and releasing updates and opening it up for other people with talent like zeewolf to give it a go and make it go further.

I dont know, maybe its just i think the MP part of this sim should not go to wast and people all over the world should be able to jump in to servers with maps that they have just made and battle it with mate from other parts of the world.

Any way Zeewolf once again great effort and respect.

O_Smiladon

Originally Posted by O_Smiladon

Hello Zeewolf,
My Name is Steve and I am currently a beta tester for world of tanks, and I have been in flight sims for some time now as well IL2 and Rise of Flight.
During my time as a beta tester for WOT I have come to appreciate the tank and what the tank crews of WW2 would have had to go through not just to survive battles but the day to day running of a tank.
And being that I am a sim type of guy I have found T34 v Tiger which is great. However a lot of my friends in my flight sim squad and WOT squad say that TvT is dead, forget it put it back on the shelve the developers went bust no multiplayer no support, bin it. But I would like to see the game resurrected.
I see that you have made some in roads to this game in bring it back to life and I take my hat off to you the work you have done look amazing, but I can’t help feeling that all your work will go to waste once another tank sim comes along that will have today’s modern graphic engines and much better eye candy and a lot less bugs and that your days as pro- Modder are numbered.
Yes we all want to earn a buck and make money but I feel you are putting your talent to a wasted game so to speak, give the code you have cracked to the community to use and let them use it to good affect like IL2 flight sim, that game has stood the test of time due to the community continually updating it for free.
If you want money for what you do why don’t you look at developing a new tank sim altogether you obviously have a talent and the know how to do this.
Find a backer get some people together and get the project of the ground it’s like the saying goes if you build it they will come.
Maybe make a website and ask the community for the support as well, I just feel people don’t really want to pay for something with the words on the end of it install and your own risk, I know I don’t
But this is just my opinion and you do what you have to do.
TvT is a good sim but an old sim give it to the community to keep it alive for free and let TvT survive the test of time.

Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

I feel if someone puts in a lot of time and effort into something he is entitled to ask for a fair recompense. $60 to rejuvenate and improve this game really is a small price. I have seen World of Tanks, it is terrible but that's what you get for free. Let me put it to you clearly, if you had the choice of playing World of Tanks for free or paying money for t34 vs tiger and Zee Wolf's or somebody elses' work for the rest of your life, which would you choose? I'm sure the latter because you should know by now you get what you pay for. My only concern is the money Zee Wolf is asking, is it worth it or is it not. He does not provide a detailed list of what you get for the $60. That is troublesome.

[O_Smiladon]

As said I have no worries about Zee making money for his efforts.

I Just think the MP side of the game is an important part of the game.

You get people in the MP side of it ..What happens next they start to play the single mode for something eles , Thats were Zee come into it.

Work on the MP and the single player will take off.

people will want more content and well Zee is our man there.

Let the MP modders get a hold of it fix the way people join and make it less of a hassle(which I am having now) and you will see a transformation happen.

Thats what I reckon.

O_Smiladon

[morttheslayer]

Hi good to read your contributions to the discussion which we (TvT community) have mulled over many times. I can see you appreciate the extension of a sim's life and having a live supportive community.
Most of us support ZeeWolf wholeheartedly and accept the single player side of his development. Its not so diverse as MP can be, but personally I prefer single player if the Game is good enough.
ZW wishes to retain his knowledge at least for the forseeable future and I am anticipating some assistance in mission building at a later date when ZW deems it appropriate. I accept this restraint as the work being put in By ZW is very significant and bodes well for the future. This sim takes some fairly large resources to run even now so being out of date isn't so much a problem I feel.
The only point I might respectfully disagree with you would be the install at your own risk caution that puts you off. I must say many "respected" publishers have released games that should have come with a free forehead tattoo (in daglo orange) saying just that! The difference with ZW is although he might issue a caution, his customer support is second to none - it's measured, sincere and competent - and basically he's a good guy.

and No I'm not his Mum

All the Best Morty

[O_Smiladon]

Hi Morty,

Cheers mate, I have no dout the Mr Zeewolf is a nice guy, anyone who wants to put this sort of effort into a sim to keep it alive has to have a heart.

I do keep going back to the MP side of the sim..(Sorry to keep going on about it) last night I got a group together who I have incouraged to get the sim and stick it on there PCs and there is nothing more we like to do but team up together in what ever sim we do. Anyway got the guys together and tired MP side of the sim we had some success with it, but very buggy and other bits which i will not go on about unless asked .

They do like the sim and the potential it has.. One of the guys is a maker the aircraft for Rise Of Flight, I dont know if you have seen that sim but the aircraft modals are very nicely rendered and are beautiful to behold so he knows how to make quality. he has a M16 halftrack which looks amaseing and he said How can i import into the game ? thats the scenario that I would like to think could happen quality machines being imported into a quality sim. for all of us to enjoy, and makeing the MP side of things a lot better and immersive, The singke player guys who enjoy the other part of the game are being catered for by Mr ZeeWolf and thats great, But i feel there is nothing better than teaming up with your mate looking over your shoulder seeing his mighty Tiger rolling along side you knowing hes got your back.

O_Smiladon

[frinik]

O-Simaldon,


I understand your interest in the MP side of TvsT .For that however you're barking up the wrong tree! You should contact Murkz and the other group of modders who have made improvements to that side of the game, better sounds for the Tiger, tweaked the Tiger gun to make it more powerful as per historical data , eliminated a lot of bugs.They released their MMP5 mod a few months ago which incorporates all the improvements they have done since the last 2 years. They also organise MP sessions.I suggest you contact them.By the way, their MPP5 is available on the tanksim.org.ru website which is a Russian based site but offers automatic translation of its pages.It hosts mods and patches for a variety of sims including, TvsT, Steel Fury, Achtung Panzer, T72 Balkans on Fire etc.


As for ZeeWolf he is committed only to the SP side of the game.And those of us who are " catered" by him as you put it are interested almost exclusively by the Single Player side of the game.The MP does not interest us. ZW worked 18 months to master the Mission Editor of the game to resurrect the game which is why he is asking people to pay.He is devoting his time to SP and has said that MP is not his field of interest.I ma not his spokesman I am simply quoting whta he told us several times in the past including to others who also had questions similar to yours.

Cheers


Frinik

[Sledgehammer427]

come to think of it though,
everyone palying the latest released version of zee's mod should be multiplayer compatible....
I dunno
it's 4 AM and my brain is mush.

[murkz]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

come to think of it though,
everyone palying the latest released version of zee's mod should be multiplayer compatible....
I dunno
it's 4 AM and my brain is mush.

Test it guys and let us know if it works. We are just waiting to hear

[O_Smiladon]

Hi,

Thanks guys for all your posts on this matter,and I appreciate your comments.

I would just like to say that I have not come here to upset anyone or to tread on anyones toes.

I would like to hear your part of the story and your opinion on the MP side of things Mr ZeeWolf. And if you have any plan to accomadate people like me who enjoy the commradary of follow tankers and firends to join in a map and play together.

I know that you will agree with me that TvT has great opertunity to grasp a market that has not been tapped into ..MP WW2 tank sim, there are some out there but noting like TvT IMHO.

If the case that the latest release is MP compat then thats a good thing, and from what i have heard, I believe that a lot of the bug issue have been addressed.

Could it br possible for this to be tested as requested be murkz?

I certainly would have no problum if Mr Zeewolf would like to use me as a test bed.

Anyway guys I do think this sim is great, and I have been doing the MMP5 side of things but there needs to be improvments to the whole MP experiance.
And I hope that one day i could team up with you all and salute you in the virtual world of T34 Vs Tiger.

Kind Regards

Steve
aka O_Smiladon

[murkz]

The South Russia map created by Olaf for MMP6, this was an old build as you can see by the overly dark shadows and missing ambient sounds.