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Old 12-02-20, 02:13 PM   #241
derstosstrupp
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I agree, it all comes down to what is fun on an individual basis. I don’t want to come across as dictating play styles, only keeping the historical record straight.

I like the idea of artificial difficulty, sort of the approach that NYGM for SH3, and TMO for SH4 take. Make the AI artificially hard to compensate for the fact you are yourself not at risk. Keeps you nice and cautious! Is that what your modified escort AI does?
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Old 12-02-20, 02:21 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derstosstrupp View Post
I agree, it all comes down to what is fun on an individual basis. I don’t want to come across as dictating play styles, only keeping the historical record straight.

I like the idea of artificial difficulty, sort of the approach that NYGM for SH3, and TMO for SH4 take. Make the AI artificially hard to compensate for the fact you are yourself not at risk. Keeps you nice and cautious! Is that what your modified escort AI does?



No problem I was referring to my comments. Thanks for the great info. !
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Old 12-02-20, 02:26 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derstosstrupp View Post
I agree, it all comes down to what is fun on an individual basis. I don’t want to come across as dictating play styles, only keeping the historical record straight.

I like the idea of artificial difficulty, sort of the approach that NYGM for SH3, and TMO for SH4 take. Make the AI artificially hard to compensate for the fact you are yourself not at risk. Keeps you nice and cautious! Is that what your modified escort AI does?

Yes, the ai files are ones made long ago by CB...and you have to keep on your toes with them.
The escorts aren't infallible by any means; if one uses realistic tactics, etc. they can be beat. Sometimes. I'm a firm believer in that many of the "problems" people had/have with "uber" escorts, depth charges, etc. is because they didn't/don't know what they were doing tactics wise. To be blunt.

But they're much better than the normal zombies in the game, especially in the '40-'42 time period.
I think the escorts are weaker than they should be in this time period (later too, but more so in 40-42) and these files help with that.
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Old 12-04-20, 12:13 AM   #244
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Well, my experience so far with Real Navigation inside these Polish waters is horrendous. I wish I could throw that Navigator overboard and explain to Donitz that he accidentally slipped on tea.

a) Not much in the way of merchant shipping in the area. Either destroyers or that elusive Polish fleet that go over 15 knots, moving away from me. No pickings.

b) I try to plot waypoints and decent courses inside the patrol zone... but because of the Navigator's less-than-stellar celestial navigation calculations twice I found myself way, wayyyyy passed my waypoint - within sight of land (or land-based coastal batteries). Lesson learned: when reaching a "waypoint" I now stop all engines while he does his magic.

c) The attack disc... remains a complete mystery to me yet. Yes, I saw the videos but still need more practice with it. Can't wait to be transfered in the Atlantic.
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Old 12-04-20, 12:28 AM   #245
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I’d be happy to work through the attack disk with you on Discord!
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Old 12-10-20, 09:56 AM   #246
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First, a big thank you to derstosstrupp for taking the time to tutor me on-field with the Attack Disk on Discord - and answering my gazillion follow-up questions.

Just back from Baltic operations in Kiel with Real Navigation. Easily, this experience is the most immersive I've had with a Silent Hunter game (even with that error-prone Navigator... ). Plotting my course through waypoints all the way to Kiel while listening to German channels on the radio, calculating ETAs and dead-reckoning my changes of course while avoiding racing into a Danish island, encountering all these unprotected German convoys to Sweden, then manually steering the boat down Kiel Harbor.

Thankfully, the weather was clear... this time around.

I might take pics of my 1st patrol KTB later today, in my own scribbling.
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Old 12-10-20, 05:34 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derstosstrupp View Post
I’d be happy to work through the attack disk with you on Discord!
little off-topic, but do we have an actual Subsim discord server?

if we do not, I was thinking to ask the subsim admins if it would be ok if I/we created a discord server for everyone to use? , I just think it would be very useful as this past 2 weeks alone, I have had to do voice chat with helping people install TWOS correctly and explain how to use tdc walking them through it.
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Old 12-10-20, 06:05 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Sickents View Post
little off-topic, but do we have an actual Subsim discord server?

if we do not, I was thinking to ask the subsim admins if it would be ok if I/we created a discord server for everyone to use? , I just think it would be very useful as this past 2 weeks alone, I have had to do voice chat with helping people install TWOS correctly and explain how to use tdc walking them through it.
disregard I'm a Potato, been right in front of me this whole time in the links bar
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Old 12-18-20, 08:40 PM   #249
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wondering if anyone has read U-boat Tactics in World War II (Elite) if so is it any good

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Old 12-18-20, 09:08 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by les green01 View Post
wondering if anyone has read U-boat Tactics in World War II (Elite) if so is it any good

It’s OK, it has a lot of good information, but I highly question some of the things about actual tactics in there. Some things are quite different than what contemporary sources say. For example, in there they claim that the standard night tactic was to sneak inside the screen underwater and then surface in the convoy, which was certainly not true, at least early war.

It also describes a standard night attack as running up from behind the convoy, which again, I wouldn’t call that standard. Standard was getting forward of the beam and running in on the “dog curve”, bow on target.

So just a little things like that, which I would like to say are minor, but in a book about tactics, I don’t know, it just isn’t quite reflective of the reality as I understand it to have been.
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Old 12-18-20, 11:39 PM   #251
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[QUOTE=derstosstrupp;2714516]It’s OK, it has a lot of good information, but I highly question some of the things about actual tactics in there. Some things are quite different than what contemporary sources say. For example, in there they claim that the standard night tactic was to sneak inside the screen underwater and then surface in the convoy, which was certainly not true, at least early war.

It also describes a standard night attack as running up from behind the convoy, which again, I wouldn’t call that standard. Standard was getting forward of the beam and running in on the “dog curve”, bow on target.

So just a little things like that, which I would like to say are minor, but in a book about tactics, I don’t know, it just isn’t quite reflective of the reality as I understand it to have been.[/QUOT
thanks i didn't get it but got The Official U-boat Commander's Handbook - The Illustrated Edition and u-boat commander a periscope view battle of the atlantic



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Old 12-19-20, 06:22 AM   #252
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Also very good choice! For the text of that handbook, there are several errors in the wartime translation, so I would say supplement it with my retranslation as I fixed the contextual and language mistakes:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u_W...w?usp=drivesdk
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Old 12-23-20, 03:30 PM   #253
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Default TORPEDO LOADOUT AND PISTOLS

Here are the myriad orders, particularly early war, with regard to detonator settings, as Germany struggled to reconcile the various torpedo problems. Not for the faint of heart!

Source is “Wolves Without Teeth: The German Torpedo Crisis in World War Two“ by David Habersham Wright.

MZ = magnetic detonator (“Magnetzünder”)
AZ = impact detonator (“Aufschlagzünder”)

At patrol start:
- Before Oct. 2 1939, your pistols are either set to MZ or AZ and cannot be changed during patrol. Randomly determine what eels are set to what. It was however possible to swap out pistols between torpedoes, so keep that in mind.

- After that date, decide when loading each eel into a tube what you want the setting to be (keeping the standing pistol orders in mind). No switching during attack!

- Roughly 75% of all torpedoes fired were G7e. This was the standard torpedo of the war, and cheaper to produce. Use a random number generator or dice to determine the type of each torpedo you get, 75% chance of each being G7e up to the following limits. For Type VIIB or C, you can load max 9 G7e (all tubes loaded with G7e, and 4 in bow internal storage). For VIIA, max 8 (bow tubes loaded with G7e, and 4 in bow internal storage). Unmentioned slots of course get G7a.

War start:
Torpedoes had the Pi1 pistol and had either MZ or AZ preset, which could not be changed during patrol (unless the pistols themselves were swapped between torpedoes). Leadership put its faith in MZ, so this was preferred due to the devastating results of exploding under the target’s keel. No limit on MZ use at this time.

Sept. 15, ’39:
For targets < 3,000 tons, use only AZ. Larger targets have a greater magnetic field sufficient to detonate the warhead.

Sept. 17, ’39:
Premature detonations continue. BdU forbids MZ. Use only AZ. Note that, since pistol settings could not be changed during patrol, these are odd orders, likely born of Dönitz’s frustration.

Oct. 2, ’39:
“Schalterstellung A” (switch position A) introduced, allowing the pistol settings to be switched on patrol between MZ and AZ, allowing the mandatory AZ setting to be set. [boats at sea during this time will be fitted with torpedoes with this on next patrol]

Oct. 11, ’39:
The torpedo inspectorate recommends a new cable layout in the torpedoes, and BdU allows MZ use again. [boats at sea during this time will be fitted with torpedoes with this on next patrol]

Oct. 18, ’39:
BdU forbids MZ again after U-46 reports multiple premature detonations.

Nov. 1, ’39:
Set depth 2 meters shallower than target draft due to deep-running torpedoes, but no shallower than 3 meters (4 in strong Atlantic waves). Finishing shots on stopped steamers depth setting 3 meters.

Nov. 8, ’39:
New pistol Pi a+b created with a reworked MZ detonator. Dönitz allows MZ firing again, but not with the G7a “fast” setting of 44 kn. Depth for MZ to be draft + 1 meter. [boats at sea during this time will be fitted with torpedoes with this on next patrol]

Jan. 18, ’40:
Targets < 4,000 tons use depth setting of 4 meters. All other targets use ship’s draft + 1 meter.

Mar. 19, ’40:
G7a fast setting of 44 kn forbidden. Only AZ setting allowed in cases where the boat absolutely must remain hidden. If boat’s position becomes compromised, OK to use MZ (as the consequence of premature detonation is not so dangerous then). Minimum torpedo run of 500 meters with MZ. Separate multiple shots by 9 seconds. Set depth 4 meters for all targets < 4,000 tons and destroyers.

Apr. 11, ’40 (for boats in Norway campaign):
Keep forward tubes ready with 3 eels set to AZ and one to MZ. Attacks against large targets are to be with AZ, depth setting 2 meters.

Apr. 18, ’40:
Norway campaign boats no longer use AZ except in narrow fjords. With MZ, set depth equal to draft, 4 meters against destroyers, 3-4 meters against submarines. With AZ, set 4 meters, 3 meters in good weather.

Apr. 21, ‘40:
MZ shots depth target draft + 1 meter. Against destroyers, subs, and steamers under 4,000 tons, set 3 meters in bad weather, 2 meters in good. For AZ, 3 meters against all targets, 2 meters in good weather. Against capital ships, when firing AZ, set depth 5 meters.

Jun. 1, ‘40:
MZ firing forbidden (would remain so until late 1942).

Jun. 20, ‘40:
G7a fast setting of 44 kn again permitted. Depth to be set as draft minus 3 meters (2 meters in excellent weather).

Jul. 30, ‘40:
G7a fast setting again banned. The need for higher torpedo production meant that improved torpedo engines could not be installed.

Nov. ‘42 (in Med) or Dec. ‘42 (in Atlantic):
The Pi2 pistol is introduced, correcting the MZ problem. [boats deploying to these areas after these dates are assumed to have the new pistol]
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Last edited by derstosstrupp; 12-23-20 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 12-23-20, 04:28 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derstosstrupp View Post
Here are the myriad orders, particularly early war, with regard to detonator settings, as Germany struggled to reconcile the various torpedo problems. Not for the faint of heart!

Source is “Wolves Without Teeth: The German Torpedo Crisis in World War Two“ by David Habersham Wright.

MZ = magnetic detonator (“Magnetzünder”)
AZ = impact detonator (“Aufschlagzünder”)

At patrol start:
- Before Oct. 2 1939, your pistols are either set to MZ or AZ and cannot be changed during patrol. Randomly determine what eels are set to what. It was however possible to swap out pistols between torpedoes, so keep that in mind.

- After that date, decide when loading each eel into a tube what you want the setting to be (keeping the standing pistol orders in mind). No switching during attack!

- Roughly 75% of all torpedoes fired were G7e. This was the standard torpedo of the war, and cheaper to produce. Use a random number generator or dice to determine the type of each torpedo you get, 75% chance of each being G7e up to the following limits. For Type VIIB or C, you can load max 9 G7e (all tubes loaded with G7e, and 4 in bow internal storage). For VIIA, max 8 (bow tubes loaded with G7e, and 4 in bow internal storage). Unmentioned slots of course get G7a.

War start:
Torpedoes had the Pi1 pistol and had either MZ or AZ preset, which could not be changed during patrol (unless the pistols themselves were swapped between torpedoes). Leadership put its faith in MZ, so this was preferred due to the devastating results of exploding under the target’s keel. No limit on MZ use at this time.

Sept. 15, ’39:
For targets < 3,000 tons, use only AZ. Larger targets have a greater magnetic field sufficient to detonate the warhead.

Sept. 17, ’39:
Premature detonations continue. BdU forbids MZ. Use only AZ. Note that, since pistol settings could not be changed during patrol, these are odd orders, likely born of Dönitz’s frustration.

Oct. 2, ’39:
“Schalterstellung A” (switch position A) introduced, allowing the pistol settings to be switched on patrol between MZ and AZ, allowing the mandatory AZ setting to be set. [boats at sea during this time will be fitted with torpedoes with this on next patrol]

Oct. 11, ’39:
The torpedo inspectorate recommends a new cable layout in the torpedoes, and BdU allows MZ use again. [boats at sea during this time will be fitted with torpedoes with this on next patrol]

Oct. 18, ’39:
BdU forbids MZ again after U-46 reports multiple premature detonations.

Nov. 1, ’39:
Set depth 2 meters shallower than target draft due to deep-running torpedoes, but no shallower than 3 meters (4 in strong Atlantic waves). Finishing shots on stopped steamers depth setting 3 meters.

Nov. 8, ’39:
New pistol Pi a+b created with a reworked MZ detonator. Dönitz allows MZ firing again, but not with the G7a “fast” setting of 44 kn. Depth for MZ to be draft + 1 meter. [boats at sea during this time will be fitted with torpedoes with this on next patrol]

Jan. 18, ’40:
Targets < 4,000 tons use depth setting of 4 meters. All other targets use ship’s draft + 1 meter.

Mar. 19, ’40:
G7a fast setting of 44 kn forbidden. Only AZ setting allowed in cases where the boat absolutely must remain hidden. If boat’s position becomes compromised, OK to use MZ (as the consequence of premature detonation is not so dangerous then). Minimum torpedo run of 500 meters with MZ. Separate multiple shots by 9 seconds. Set depth 4 meters for all targets < 4,000 tons and destroyers.

Apr. 11, ’40 (for boats in Norway campaign):
Keep forward tubes ready with 3 eels set to AZ and one to MZ. Attacks against large targets are to be with AZ, depth setting 2 meters.

Apr. 18, ’40:
Norway campaign boats no longer use AZ except in narrow fjords. With MZ, set depth equal to draft, 4 meters against destroyers, 3-4 meters against submarines. With AZ, set 4 meters, 3 meters in good weather.

Apr. 21, ‘40:
MZ shots depth target draft + 1 meter. Against destroyers, subs, and steamers under 4,000 tons, set 3 meters in bad weather, 2 meters in good. For AZ, 3 meters against all targets, 2 meters in good weather. Against capital ships, when firing AZ, set depth 5 meters.

Jun. 1, ‘40:
MZ firing forbidden (would remain so until late 1942).

Jun. 20, ‘40:
G7a fast setting of 44 kn again permitted. Depth to be set as draft minus 3 meters (2 meters in excellent weather).

Jul. 30, ‘40:
G7a fast setting again banned. The need for higher torpedo production meant that improved torpedo engines could not be installed.

Nov. ‘42 (in Med) or Dec. ‘42 (in Atlantic):
The Pi2 pistol is introduced, correcting the MZ problem. [boats deploying to these areas after these dates are assumed to have the new pistol]

Nice ! I may have to whip up a SH3C date files with these instructions for SH3 anyway.
Recently made some date files eliminating u-boats carrying topside torpedoes and so only Liberators and Avengers use FIDO torpedoes per historical orders.
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Old 12-24-20, 05:18 PM   #255
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merry christmas folks thanks to everyone who doing the videos on here from what i have read so far in the commander handbook there a couple things i been doing wrong so i guess i need a good old school paddling but i been not doing on underwater attack from 4000 meters to 2k going all silent,getting range with high instead of low,while doing a phone search not going silent,enemy sound location is to be anticipated and if the speed of the enemy is slow and sea calm the attemp must be made to go in for the attack on electric motors anyone know if they can sound locate you on the surface on this game
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