[WIP] Fairmile B Motor Launch

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

cfg#FLG = war ensign, large
cfg#FLS = war ensign, small
cfg#FLGC = civil ensign

Weird... I just tried it and the flag size stays about the same (roughly 1,5 times as high as the flagpole). It might be shorter horizontally with #FLS but I'm not sure.

Another minor thing I've noticed with the flag is that while it moves around with flagpole as ship bounces on waves, it doesn't seem to tilt accordingly, so with bigger waves you can see flag edges moving away from the flagpole.

(and yes, I've tried simplier .dat import through s3ditor first, though I still intend to try doing a gr2 version as well. This way I'll learn how both available editors work)

If I can't get the flag smaller, I'll probably just lower the yard (is this the correct English term?) a bit to accomodate for bigger flag.

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Weird... I just tried it and the flag size stays about the same (roughly 1,5 times as high as the flagpole). It might be shorter horizontally with #FLS but I'm not sure.

Maybe #FLS flag nodes are just a SHIII/SHIV thing. As I said in my previous post, in SH5 there might be a better way to reduce flag size (if the gr2 format is used).

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Another minor thing I've noticed with the flag is that while it moves around with flagpole as ship bounces on waves, it doesn't seem to tilt accordingly, so with bigger waves you can see flag edges moving away from the flagpole.

That's weird, I have never seen anything similar

Originally Posted by kapuhy

(and yes, I've tried simplier .dat import through s3ditor first, though I still intend to try doing a gr2 version as well. This way I'll learn how both available editors work)

Okay, importing your first vessel as a dat unit will be a good exercise, even if at some point you will decide to switch to the gr2 format

Originally Posted by kapuhy

If I can't get the flag smaller, I'll probably just lower the yard (is this the correct English term?) a bit to accomodate for bigger flag.

I am not a native English speaker either, but I think that a yard is an horizontal pole crossing a mast at a 90 deg angle in the port/starboard direction. I don't know how you want to accomodate the flag on your ship model, but to the bets of my knowledge naval ensigns were (and are) usually flown from a ensign staff at the ship's stern while at port, and from a gaff (i.e. a slanted pole usually diverging from a mast in the longitudinal direction) over the stern while underway. Maybe the picture below will make things clearer for you:

[kapuhy]

Thanks gap!

I didn't know of this and initially placed the ensign simply on the mast head (which caused problems because Fairmile's yardarm is rather close to the mast head and flag reached below it), but after your post I checked the photos from WW2 and they all show ensign flying from the gaff as you told. I'll be correcting this in my model, and incidentally it solves the issue of flag size as well, because between the gaff and the deck I have enough space to hoist three flags if I wanted

In the meantime hit another obstacle - I can't find where the game stores models and data for weapons. Ship .dat and .eqp files contain references to various weapons and I can place them on ship by copying those references from existing units - but where are weapon models themselves and is it possible to edit/add new ones?

For historically accurate equipement on Fairmile, I need four kinds of weapons:
- Hotchkiss QF 3pdr (45mm) (initially mounted as main gun on foredeck)
- 20 mm Oerlikon AA guns (those replaced 3pdr later on, and additional one was mounted on aft deck)
- .303 Lewis machine guns
- this kind of crude DC racks:


EDIT: Just found the weapons. data/Library folder

[Seaowl]

Very cool model of the Fairmile, kapuhy!




Small units like Subchasers, Tugs, Trawlers are always a great addition!

If there are questions to GR2 editor: within the next days I will try to sum up my

experiences so far with transferring obj. models from blender to GR2 editor.

But a lot of things are nebulous to me....

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Thanks gap!

My pleasure kapuhy, while you update your model you might find the followin articles on flag etiquette useful:

https://www.marineinsight.com/guidel...ag-etiquettes/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariti...Flag_etiquette

Originally Posted by kapuhy

For historically accurate equipement on Fairmile, I need four kinds of weapons:
- Hotchkiss QF 3pdr (45mm) (initially mounted as main gun on foredeck)
- 20 mm Oerlikon AA guns (those replaced 3pdr later on, and additional one was mounted on aft deck)
- .303 Lewis machine guns
- this kind of crude DC racks:

The 20 mm Oerlikon and the depth charge ramps should be easy to find among stock SHIII/IV/5 and custom-made library armaments. Moreover, I have nicely detailed models of the most common US and British depth charges that I will be happy to share with you if you like. Here is myy rendition of the British Type "D" Mk III DC:



On the other hand, I am sure that the Hotchkiss 3-pounder and the Lewis MG are not among the stock armaments, and I doubt that you will find them in any SH mod. I have a nice model of a lewis gun on my HD, my own work; I can similarly send it your way, but you would have to decimate its polygons, as it is a bit too detailed for use as an AI gun, and you would need to model a pedestal for it:

Originally Posted by kapuhy

EDIT: Just found the weapons. data/Library folder

I am afraid that by relying on the dat format you won't be able to use GR2 armaments directly on your unit, unless you give up the unified render controller and the connected texture maps: granny equipments look entirely black when placed on dat units with the aforementioned controller

[kapuhy]

That's a lovely depth charge, I'd love to use it if you allow it. As for MG you're right, such a small weapon, if it is to be included, should have very simple model. Perhaps the best option would be to use yours for reference to make a extremely low poly version?

Originally Posted by gap

I am afraid that by relying on the dat format you won't be able to use GR2 armaments directly on your unit, unless you give up the unified render controller and the connected texture maps: granny equipments look entirely black when placed on dat units with the aforementioned controller

Wartime expediency - with what I've already learned about .dat format I think I'll be able to have the boat seaworthy within a few days and when .dat version is out there protecting the convoys my R&D dept. can switch to figuring out .gr2 format in order to eventually sink U-Boats in style.

By the way, where are .gr2 weapons? Only files whose names suggest weapon models fail to open properly in TDW's editor (meaning, they do open but there seems to be no model to see in preview window...)

[kapuhy]

When I wrote last post I hoped to finish it in a few days... and then got distracted by other things for months. Still, now that I have some time again, I dug the files out in order to finish it.

I still have to make some final improvements to the model and then texture it (which might take a while since I'm pretty much a noob at UV mapping) but I did a test import into game and it worked pretty well in most regards: it shows up in game, sails, fights, explodes and sinks no problem. Because of lack of Hotchkiss 3pdr I used single 2pdr on front deck and Oerlikons for AA mounts.

Now one thing I couldn't figure out is how to make a working ASW weapon. I made a W01 (asw) slot where Fairmile historically mounted an Y-gun and as far as I can tell, I configured everything identical as it is in Japanese Akizuki and Sub Chaser dat-format ships, yet those ships show up in game with ASW weapons while my Fairmile has an empty spot there.

I got Y-gun to show up when I put it in M01 (main armament) node but it refused to fire. Anything I try to assign to W01 node just doesn't show up.

EDIT: Done some more experiments with W01 slot. Well... any ASW weapon I put there works now... with exception of Y-Gun. Sigh.

SH5 with TWoS has 4 Y-Guns in game files: two .gr2 (YGun, YGun_Mk9), which show black on a .dat ship (don't mind the ship ugly texture for now, it's a placeholder)



An SH4 version which shows up like this and refuses to fire:



And SH3 version which doesn't show up at all.

I have no idea why SH3 K-Gun and DC rack work in SH5 and Y-gun doesn't. Tested it with other ships (like Japanese destroyers) and results are the same.

[kapuhy]

Update: I'm mostly done with main texture - here's how it looks in S3D:



Having trouble with lightmap though, I can't get the hang of how to make specular mask properly and in game ship becomes whiter than KKK member walking out of laundry.

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Update: I'm mostly done with main texture - here's how it looks in S3D:

Simply amazing, I can't wait to see her in game!

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Having trouble with lightmap though, I can't get the hang of how to make specular mask properly and in game ship becomes whiter than KKK member walking out of laundry.

That's ugly lol

Are you relying on the dat format? And if yes, have you added your lightmap using the unified render controller?

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

Are you relying on the dat format? And if yes, have you added your lightmap using the unified render controller?

Yes, it's in dat format. When I get it into relasable state in dat, then I'll see if I can port it into gr2.

As for the second question - lacking any experience with dat file structure, I approached it by using one of existing ships as template, and then changing node after node to fit my model. So my method of adding lightmap was "replace original O01.dds file with my own". I think the problem is in how I made the file, not how it was added though - in other words, I don't know what to put in alpha layer for the ship to look "natural".

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Yes, it's in dat format. When I get it into relasable state in dat, then I'll see if I can port it into gr2.

Good plan

Originally Posted by kapuhy

As for the second question - lacking any experience with dat file structure, I approached it by using one of existing ships as template, and then changing node after node to fit my model. So my method of adding lightmap was "replace original O01.dds file with my own". I think the problem is in how I made the file, not how it was added though - in other words, I don't know what to put in alpha layer for the ship to look "natural".

Well, if you used a native SHIV ship as template, you should know that SH5's specular masks are probably darker than SHIV ones.

If you want to make a comparison, in SH5 those texture maps are stored in the alpha channels of main (diffuse) textures, whereas for stock SHIV units they are stored in ambient occlusion map's alpha channels (O1 etc.).

Talking on this topic, probably I have already pointed you to the thread linked below, but I recommend you to re-read it carefully as it contains reports of how various modders had to rework SHIV light maps for them to look right in SH5:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...71#post1644371

Besides that, unless you didn't enable the ambient occlusion map in S3d, I see from your previews that your new unit is still missing one. AO maps are a bit more complicated than other maps, but they can make a big difference in how natural the illumination of various 3D objects looks in game.
Just give me a sign when you are ready to add one to your gracious model.

[kapuhy]

Thanks for this link Gap, there's a ton of useful info in this thread. I'm browsing through it and tweaking some values in my ship's files to get rid of the lighting problems and other bugs. I have to edit the .zon files as well since these still weren't changed from original ship.

I probably will have to make my own ASW weapons for it as well. Even if I could get SH3 or SH4 Y-gun to work (SH5 works, but is rendered black on dat model), they have far too much ammo for this kind of ship. And no DC chute that would fit for stern depth charges is in game files.

Meanwhile, some shots of the current version in game:

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Thanks for this link Gap, there's a ton of useful info in this thread.

My pleasure

Originally Posted by kapuhy

I'm browsing through it and tweaking some values in my ship's files to get rid of the lighting problems and other bugs. I have to edit the .zon files as well since these still weren't changed from original ship.

Yes, the damage model is one of the main differences between SH5 and its predecessors. Without the tweaks that you are mentioning, your new unit wouldn't take any damage from collisions/explosions.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

I probably will have to make my own ASW weapons for it as well. Even if I could get SH3 or SH4 Y-gun to work (SH5 works, but is rendered black on dat model), they have far too much ammo for this kind of ship. And no DC chute that would fit for stern depth charges is in game files.

I don't remember having seen DC chutes in any of the stock SH5 unit. You could probably borrow a chute 3D model from one of the small ASW vessels released in the past for SHIII/IV, but looking for them would probably take much longer than modelling one from scratch...

On a side note, be warned that even though you give to your boat the appropriate unit type, depending on her displacement she might have an hard time at using her depth charges. That's caused by a limit of SH's AI, as small units try to avoid collision with bigger mass units, even though they are submerged.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Meanwhile, some shots of the current version in game:

Wow, she looks so nice (though you haven't placed the ensign in the gaff position yet )!

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

On a side note, be warned that even though you give to your boat the appropriate unit type, depending on her displacement she might have an hard time at using her depth charges. That's caused by a limit of SH's AI, as small units try to avoid collision with bigger mass units, even though they are submerged.

That'd be a bummer... on the bright side, she doesn't have any trouble using Y-gun - in test mission it was scary good at locating me with ASDIC and then making a precision DC drop on my head.

That's with SH5 Y-gun though. SH4 and 3 Y-guns don't work, not just on my ship but on any imported ship in TWoS. I tried all kind of things with them and got nowhere.

As for damage model, I used an already imported ship in TWoS for template file, so she does sink, burn and even capsize, just in wrong way. I'll just remake all spheres/boxes to fit her dimensions and internal compartments.

By the way, is there a way to check if the ship has correct dimensions in game? I set the draft at 1,47 meters, but torpedoes launched at 1,0 and 1,2 meter depth went under her hull - I'm not sure whether it's faulty torpedoes, wave motion or wrong dimensions.

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

That'd be a bummer... on the bright side, she doesn't have any trouble using Y-gun - in test mission it was scary good at locating me with ASDIC and then making a precision DC drop on my head.

That's good, if the Y gun works on your boat I don't see why other types of DC throwers wouldn't do the same

Originally Posted by kapuhy

That's with SH5 Y-gun though. SH4 and 3 Y-guns don't work, not just on my ship but on any imported ship in TWoS. I tried all kind of things with them and got nowhere.

I had a look into SH5's Y gun and I compared it with the one from SHIV. Apparently, the they have slightly differente file structures:

in SHIV:

• Node - YGun (3D model: the base of the thrower with arm #1)
  
  
  • Node - YGun02 (3D model: arm #2)
    • Node - YGun_barrel02 (3D model: DC #2)
      
      
  • Node - YGun_barrel01 (3D model: DC #1)

in SH5:

• Bone - Y Gun (3D model: the base of the thrower with arm #1)
  • Bone - barrel_01 (3D model: none)
  • Bone - YGun_barrel01 (3D model: DC #1)
    
    
  • Bone - YGun02
    • Bone - YGun_barrel02 (3D model: DC #2)
    • Bone - barrel_02 (3D model: none)

Marked in bold are the nodes whose name is specified in the 'Barrel' field of the wpn_KGun controller for both games. As you can see, SH5's Y guns have a couple of extra dummy bones over SHIV ones. I don't know for sure why they are there (at first I thought they are used for determining the throwing directions, but obviously that's not the case since they have no rotation data), but they might be essential for SH5 being able to trigger its DC projectors.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

As for damage model, I used an already imported ship in TWoS for template file, so she does sink, burn and even capsize, just in wrong way. I'll just remake all spheres/boxes to fit her dimensions and internal compartments.

Okay, for a small unit as your launch, that task shouldn't be too complicated

Originally Posted by kapuhy

By the way, is there a way to check if the ship has correct dimensions in game?

Not a very accurate one, but...

Originally Posted by kapuhy

I set the draft at 1,47 meters, but torpedoes launched at 1,0 and 1,2 meter depth went under her hull - I'm not sure whether it's faulty torpedoes, wave motion or wrong dimensions.

...one unit of length in most 3D editing programs is equal to ten meters in the SH world. Knowing that, you can place a mark on your unit near the desired/expected waterline and see what's happening in game. You can even draw draft marks near the bow of your boat, but when you set the testing mission, don't forget to set the cargo of your unit to none, and wind speed to zero, as both factors might affect ships draught in game